Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

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refitman
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Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

Morning all.

Well, I've read through articles in the Guardian, BBC and Independent and so far I've found absolutely no mention of the government's decision to stop paying Microsoft for XP security support. They must know this, yet have presumably decided it's not a relevant fact in this case. How can they help the government brush this under the carpet? Hospitals aren't outsourced to the private sector, so surely the government can't expect to pass the buck on this? It's the fact the government knew the NHS and police had many systems still requiring updating, but decided to pull the plug on appropriate support before that updating was completed, at the same time as applying constant budget cuts to these organisations that undermined their ability to update more quickly. I'm so angry about this. I had to post a comment on the Independent article as it was the only one accepting comments. I just think the public need to know about this government decision so they can make up their own minds if it was a reasonable "cost saving" - about £5m a year? This was a huge gamble. I shall be absolutely seething (to pinch a phrase!) if they get away with this! :fire:
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I'm sure there is some mention of it in the Graun coverage?
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tinybgoat
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by tinybgoat »

Boris, blustering on Brussels.

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-05-13/bori ... orce-bill/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He said: "Theresa May is right, no deal is better than a bad deal and some of the anxiety that I've read about the consequences of failing to get the deal remind me of the panic that led up to the turn of the millennium, the so-called millennium bug."
Does he mean the 'panic' caused by the realisation of how bad the bug would be, with cost/risk analysis by businesses leading to a mammoth amount of work being done to ensure it didn't happen?
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

tinybgoat wrote:Boris, blustering on Brussels.

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-05-13/bori ... orce-bill/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
He said: "Theresa May is right, no deal is better than a bad deal and some of the anxiety that I've read about the consequences of failing to get the deal remind me of the panic that led up to the turn of the millennium, the so-called millennium bug."
Does he mean the 'panic' caused by the realisation of how bad the bug would be, with cost/risk analysis by businesses leading to a mammoth amount of work being done to ensure it didn't happen?
Shame Boris' government didn't have a similar "panic" over the termination of support for XP.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Rather unfortunate quote from Corbyn on the Falklands war. Not going to play well in some places, but perhaps all that negativity is already in the numbers?

"The Falklands, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, and first Gulf War were unjustified uses of military force by the UK".

Discuss.

Am really very impressed by the independent mind, and intelligence, of Natasha Engel on fracking, that HindleA posted yesterday.

https://nataschaengel.com/fracking/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Genuinely. Actually thinking for herself. Bloody brilliant.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I'm sure there is some mention of it in the Graun coverage?
I couldn't spot anything on it when I looked earlier. I mean, I'm not going barmy, am I? It is kind of relevant to the current situation, surely? Comments on the Independent site are along the lines of "stupid NHS hospitals, should have upgraded". No mention of the lack of extra money in the NHS budget to cover the costs of upgrading, or the fact that the government could have continued to purchase support for XP if they chose but didn't (apart from me, of course). Computer security is such a fundamental thing. The government really need to be challenged on this, they need to justify their decision, but that won't happen if the MSM fail to mention it.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

SpinningHugo wrote:Rather unfortunate quote from Corbyn on the Falklands war. Not going to play well in some places, but perhaps all that negativity is already in the numbers?

"The Falklands, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, and first Gulf War were unjustified uses of military force by the UK".

Discuss.

Am really very impressed by the independent mind, and intelligence, of Natasha Engel on fracking, that HindleA posted yesterday.

https://nataschaengel.com/fracking/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Genuinely. Actually thinking for herself. Bloody brilliant.
Too trusting on the assertion the numbers stack up and the government will enjoy big tax takes from fracking, imo. It is more likely, at current prices, that it will be heavily subsidised. So why not subsidise cleaner renewable energy instead?
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

So people opposed to, or even sceptical about, fracking aren't "thinking for themselves"?? Cheers SH.

On that topic, credit where it is due, the LibDem manifesto is likely to be one of the most explicit acknowledgements yet that the "war on drugs" has failed.

Almost certainly Corbyn agrees with them on this, but Labour's boneheaded "authentocrat" tendency were never likely to let their manifesto follow suit.
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SpinningHugo
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Willow904 wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:Rather unfortunate quote from Corbyn on the Falklands war. Not going to play well in some places, but perhaps all that negativity is already in the numbers?

"The Falklands, Kosovo, Sierra Leone, and first Gulf War were unjustified uses of military force by the UK".

Discuss.

Am really very impressed by the independent mind, and intelligence, of Natasha Engel on fracking, that HindleA posted yesterday.

https://nataschaengel.com/fracking/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Genuinely. Actually thinking for herself. Bloody brilliant.
Too trusting on the assertion the numbers stack up and the government will enjoy big tax takes from fracking, imo. It is more likely, at current prices, that it will be heavily subsidised. So why not subsidise cleaner renewable energy instead?
Which may well be right, but what is so impressive is someone prepared to look at all the arguments, and express a well thought out public view, that is contrary to the consensus.

Good for her.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:So people opposed to, or even sceptical about, fracking aren't "thinking for themselves"?? Cheers SH.

On that topic, credit where it is due, the LibDem manifesto is likely to be one of the most explicit acknowledgements yet that the "war on drugs" has failed.

Almost certainly Corbyn agrees with them on this, but Labour's boneheaded "authentocrat" tendency were never likely to let their manifesto follow suit.

That is a misrepresentation of what I said. I am not sure I agree with her, but it is well argued, and contrary to the dull left consensus.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

You agree with what I subsequently said in that post, then? ;)
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:You agree with what I subsequently said in that post, then? ;)

On drugs? Yes, of course.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by gilsey »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I'm sure there is some mention of it in the Graun coverage?
Old G article here.
https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/ ... pport-ends" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd say it's too soon for widespread coverage, journalists busy doing their homework. Maybe in the Sundays.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

From the G:
Rudd later told Sky News: “It is disappointing that they [the NHS] have been running Windows XP - I know that the secretary of state for health has instructed them not to and most have moved off it.”
"instructed"?! How about some direct funding to ensure it happened and continuing XP support until it did!

So Gordon Brown is responsible for a global financial crisis but Jeremy Hunt isn't responsible for ensuring NHS computers in England are up-to-date and/or security protected. That seems fair. :wall:

Meanwhile, the NHS in Wales doesn't appear to have been affected. No doubt Amber Rudd thinks they just got lucky or paid attention to Jeremy Hunt's helpful "instructions".
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:You agree with what I subsequently said in that post, then? ;)

On drugs? Yes, of course.
Suspected you might, tbf. Nice to have it confirmed though :)
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by gilsey »

I'd guess most of you are deliberately avoiding the LBC May phone-in, Ferrari is truly ghastly, but it's worth dipping in to just for May's body language when she's not answering questions from the public. Gurning and squirming with embarrassment.

Her megalomania must be off the scale to balance her obvious unsuitability, to make her want to be PM. Dave was at least good at being a smooth, empty bluffer.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/elections ... eresa-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

gilsey wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I'm sure there is some mention of it in the Graun coverage?
Old G article here.
https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/ ... pport-ends" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd say it's too soon for widespread coverage, journalists busy doing their homework. Maybe in the Sundays.
In the meantime the government is being allowed to shape the narrative, work out their excuses etc. This is a live crisis, there's a Cobra meeting this morning. Amber Rudd has admitted some files may not be backed up. The press need to be asking all sorts of questions, they should be putting the government on the spot, not letting the government put the NHS on the spot, like it's some kind of outsourced privately run entity that has nothing to do with them!
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

gilsey wrote:I'd guess most of you are deliberately avoiding the LBC May phone-in, Ferrari is truly ghastly, but it's worth dipping in to just for May's body language when she's not answering questions from the public. Gurning and squirming with embarrassment.

Her megalomania must be off the scale to balance her obvious unsuitability, to make her want to be PM. Dave was at least good at being a smooth, empty bluffer.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/politics/elections ... eresa-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
She is an introvert. She reminds me a bit of Brown in personality.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Willow904 wrote:From the G:
Rudd later told Sky News: “It is disappointing that they [the NHS] have been running Windows XP - I know that the secretary of state for health has instructed them not to and most have moved off it.”
"instructed"?! How about some direct funding to ensure it happened and continuing XP support until it did!

So Gordon Brown is responsible for a global financial crisis but Jeremy Hunt isn't responsible for ensuring NHS computers in England are up-to-date and/or security protected. That seems fair. :wall:

Meanwhile, the NHS in Wales doesn't appear to have been affected. No doubt Amber Rudd thinks they just got lucky or paid attention to Jeremy Hunt's helpful "instructions".

Yes - I queried the immunity of Wales (and NI), yesterday, and wondered if they'd just got lucky or if, in the case of Wales, it just helps to be crap (as the Government would have us believe).
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by tinybgoat »

Willow904 wrote:
gilsey wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I'm sure there is some mention of it in the Graun coverage?
Old G article here.
https://amp.theguardian.com/technology/ ... pport-ends" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd say it's too soon for widespread coverage, journalists busy doing their homework. Maybe in the Sundays.
In the meantime the government is being allowed to shape the narrative, work out their excuses etc. This is a live crisis, there's a Cobra meeting this morning. Amber Rudd has admitted some files may not be backed up. The press need to be asking all sorts of questions, they should be putting the government on the spot, not letting the government put the NHS on the spot, like it's some kind of outsourced privately run entity that has nothing to do with them!
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/08 ... t_no_deal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The justification for the one year extended support deal was that it would save money (£20 million?), compared to the cost of individual organisations having to take out their own support, at $200 per machine for first year, doubling in the second year.
The individual arrangements with Microsoft would have included showing that a replacement plan/strategy was in place. There's no excuse for this not having been done centrally at this point.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Theresa May seems to think (or is at pains to keep saying) that the NHS having not been specifically targeted is some sort of mitigating factor.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Oh - good morfternoon.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by PorFavor »

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:You agree with what I subsequently said in that post, then? ;)

On drugs? Yes, of course.
Ah. That explains a lot . . .


(Imagine a smiley thing - I don't use emoticons, or whatever they're called.)
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by PorFavor »

A-round the corner, ooh-ooh,
Beneath the berry tree
A-long the footpath, behind the bush
Looking for Henry Lee (aka Jeremy Hunt).
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:From the G:
Rudd later told Sky News: “It is disappointing that they [the NHS] have been running Windows XP - I know that the secretary of state for health has instructed them not to and most have moved off it.”
"instructed"?! How about some direct funding to ensure it happened and continuing XP support until it did!

So Gordon Brown is responsible for a global financial crisis but Jeremy Hunt isn't responsible for ensuring NHS computers in England are up-to-date and/or security protected. That seems fair. :wall:

Meanwhile, the NHS in Wales doesn't appear to have been affected. No doubt Amber Rudd thinks they just got lucky or paid attention to Jeremy Hunt's helpful "instructions".

Yes - I queried the immunity of Wales (and NI), yesterday, and wondered if they'd just got lucky or if, in the case of Wales, it just helps to be crap (as the Government would have us believe).
I'm ashamed to say there were a few jokes between myself and my other half last night along the lines of : "Gareth says he just turned the computer on and it appears to be fine" and "looks like filing cabinets and fax machines are less vulnerable to cyber attacks" sort of thing :) (sorry all you Welsh peeps, it was just too hard to resist!). Seriously, though, it's possible they made their own security arrangements for XP with Microsoft. As Microsoft have already released a free patch for XP users in response to the global malware attack, it seems extremely likely that such a patch would already have been made available to paying business customers, of which there are still quite a few as far as I can tell, so simply blaming the NHS for not upgrading when Jeremy Hunt suggested it (but didn't fund it) is not going to cut it imo. They could have done more in the face of a known threat and they know it.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

From the G live blog:
The Guardian’s Samuel Gibbs reported in May 2015 that the Government Digital Service had decided not to continue its £5.5m deal with Microsoft to extend support for Windows XP. That decision left government computers still running on the obsolete operating system at risk from hackers and may be one reason why some NHS trusts fell victim to the attack on Friday.
Finally! :dance:

The government will continue to hide behind the sheer volume of businesses affected, I have no doubt, but at least the information is getting out there, so people can form their own opinion on whether the government did enough to protect the English NHS.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by pk1 »

Interesting column by Matthew Parris in which he slams the govt for their insipid election campaign & refusal to counter the points Corbyn is making. His final paragraph:
Imagine a pugnacious, funny, moderate-sounding Ed Balls as Labour leader; imagine Mrs May without the Brexit wind in her sails; imagine a Tory government tripping a bit as the novelty wears off, as it will: as she will. Then read that manifesto again. And tremble.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comm ... 18_1852023" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by pk1 »

Willow904 wrote:From the G live blog:
The Guardian’s Samuel Gibbs reported in May 2015 that the Government Digital Service had decided not to continue its £5.5m deal with Microsoft to extend support for Windows XP. That decision left government computers still running on the obsolete operating system at risk from hackers and may be one reason why some NHS trusts fell victim to the attack on Friday.
Finally! :dance:

The government will continue to hide behind the sheer volume of businesses affected, I have no doubt, but at least the information is getting out there, so people can form their own opinion on whether the government did enough to protect the English NHS.
Copying this in its entirety. It's by Mark Bridge, the Tech Correspondent in the Times & was dated 8th Dec 2016
Patients are being put at risk because most NHS trusts are using an obsolete IT operating system that no longer receives security updates, researchers have warned.

The trusts’ use of the old Windows XP system could enable hackers to steal patient data or take control of hospital infrastructure. Criminals have already used cyberattacks to hold hospitals to ransom and an NHS trust in Lincolnshire and East Yorkshire said this week that an attack in October led to the cancellation of more than 2,800 patient appointments, including operations.

Citrix, the software company, made freedom of information (FoI) requests to 63 NHS trusts, with 42 responding and 38 confirming that they still used XP.

Windows XP, introduced in 2001, has not received security updates from Microsoft since 2014. Security experts say that this leaves systems with significant vulnerabilities. Once a machine in a hospital’s network is compromised hackers can enter other systems to control equipment such as x-ray machines and target patient records.

A previous FoI request this summer indicated that around half of NHS trusts were last year hit by so-called ransomware attacks, where hackers lock down a hospital’s IT systems and demand payment. The trusts either denied that they had paid up or would not say.

Jamie Moles of Lastline, a malware-detection company, said: “It’s no surprise to hear that the cash-strapped NHS is still running Windows XP. While security remains a low priority for management, they will increasingly fall victim to these kinds of threats.

“While security remains a low priority for NHS management, they will increasingly fall victim to these kinds of threats, which wouldn’t be a serious problem except it results in cancellation of treatments whilst the affected systems are investigated and cleaned up.”

The Metropolitan Police also admitted yesterday that it is still using the 15-year-old XP software on almost 20,000 desktop computers.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hack ... -0czcm0d05" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same reporter, Jan 14th 2017:
The largest NHS trust in Britain has come under a “major” cyberattack, with thousands of sensitive files compromised and pathology systems taken offline.

The Barts Health NHS Trust, which serves almost 2.5 million people across east London, warned early yesterday that its five hospitals were undergoing a ransomware attack, in which malicious software blocks access to the system until a sum of money is paid.

The trust subsequently said that the attack did not involve ransomware but it was still investigating last night and some IT systems were shut down as a precaution. Although the trust did not release further details, sources told the Health Service Journal that files on systems using the obsolete Windows XP had been infected.

The Times reported last month that experts were concerned that patients were being put at risk by the nine out of ten NHS trusts that continue to use Windows XP, which no longer receives security updates. A freedom of information request last summer indicated that half of NHS trusts had suffered ransomware attacks in the previous 12 months.

Barts said that its main patient record system and clinical system for radiology were not affected but confirmed that its pathology IT systems — which are used to process blood tests and other results — had been hit.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cybe ... -rdsdwhsxz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The govt has no excuse & absolutely nowhere to hide on this. They were warned in advance & had already been affected prior to yesterday's attack.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by tinybgoat »

PorFavor wrote:Theresa May seems to think (or is at pains to keep saying) that the NHS having not been specifically targeted is some sort of mitigating factor.
Hope she's correct, but I haven't seen how the machines were compromised (i.e was it just one generic email/attachment or a few tailored to appeal to certain profiles & why did people think it was ok to open it).

Interestingly foi requests have been made asking what operating systems are used in the NHS, I'm surprised at how much information was given.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... windows-xp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Good-morning, everyone
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

pk1 wrote: The govt has no excuse & absolutely nowhere to hide on this. They were warned in advance & had already been affected prior to yesterday's attack.
(cJA edit)

Yep
Guardian coverage got around to mentioning the Windows XP issue, good, but not enough criticism levelled at Tory government's disgraceful negligence
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

Nothing to do with politics, but this by Hadley Freeman is very moving

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... -around-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Ah, good
Labour shadow health secretary Jon Ashworth
Labour said there have been repeated warnings about the vulnerability of the outdated NHS systems, including from the National Cyber Security Centre and the National Crime Agency.

Many had been left “extremely vulnerable” to an attack since 2015, when they continued to use an outdated version of Windows after a security package had been stopped, Jon Ashworth said.

“NHS Trusts have been running thousands of outdated and unsupported Windows XP machines despite the Government ending its annual £5.5m deal with Microsoft, which provided ongoing security support for Windows XP, in May 2015,” the shadow health secretary wrote in his letter to Jeremy Hunt.

“It effectively means that unless individual trusts were willing to pay Microsoft for an extended support deal, since May 2015 their operating systems have been extremely vulnerable to being hacked.”

A freedom of information request in February found that 79 English NHS trusts had suffered ransomware attacks since June 2015, Ashworth said.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has also responded to the attack:

What we’ve now got is a bunch of 21st Century highway robbers that have hacked into our NHS and are basically offering protection money to get the information back in order to treat cancer patients or anybody else. It’s unbelievably disgusting and I’ve got nothing but contempt for those people that have done it, and I’m sure all of you would share that.

But I’m also very angry that in 2014, there was a one-year renewal of the protection system on the NHS systems which was not renewed after that and not renewed the year after that and so are systems are now not upgraded and not protected. As a result, we’ve got this dreadful situation that NHS workers are facing today.

And so we obviously support our NHS workers but I tell you this, a Labour government would not leave our NHS’s very vital information systems unprotected. We would protect them.”
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Theresa May: 'This is not targeted at the NHS, it’s an international attack'

https://www.theguardian.com/society/liv ... ve-updates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You Tory b*****d
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by PorFavor »

tinybgoat wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Theresa May seems to think (or is at pains to keep saying) that the NHS having not been specifically targeted is some sort of mitigating factor.
Hope she's correct, but I haven't seen how the machines were compromised (i.e was it just one generic email/attachment or a few tailored to appeal to certain profiles & why did people think it was ok to open it).

Interestingly foi requests have been made asking what operating systems are used in the NHS, I'm surprised at how much information was given.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... windows-xp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Indeed. But I meant "mitigating" in terms of Government culpability.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

PorFavor wrote: Indeed. But I meant "mitigating" in terms of Government culpability.
(cJA edit)

Theresa May incessantly looping, 'It's anything but Tory government's fault'
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

No comments open on the 'Tory Negligent Failure to Protect the Security of the UK's NHS' blog.
The G called the blog something else

https://www.theguardian.com/society/liv ... ve-updates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

This is why Amber Rudd saying some data may not be backed up is so very worrying:
It’s worth remembering that back in February 2016 a Californian hospital paid $17,000 in bitcoin after hackers installed a virus on its computer systems that encrypted their computer files.

Hollywood Presbyterian Medical Center lost access to its computer systems on 5 February. Almost two weeks later the hospital said it had paid up to regain access to its data.

The move was one of the most high-profile examples of a hacking victim paying the fee for so-called ransomware.
The government need to be really, really sure that all the data was backed up before taking a decision to not pay up. And they're on the clock, because the price keeps going up. It's very serious. If they decide not to pay but it transpires a lot of data wasn't backed up in a safe location, I'm not sure what it would mean for the NHS. It depends on the nature of the data lost, I suppose. How many blood tests would need to be re-done etc. I wonder if the true scale and significance of this malware attack has really sunk in yet.
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by pk1 »

As I understand it, Microsoft agreed to provide (paid-for) support for a single year after general support for all users of XP was withdrawn.

Both Corbyn & Ashworth have misunderstood & should revise their statements to say that the NHS computer software should have been ungraded & the DoH should have provided funding for this specific purpose.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

An Australian b*****d sporting a title is frantically working out how Tory government can blame Labour for failing to protect the NHS
pk1
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by pk1 »

7th April 2014:
The UK and Dutch governments have paid Microsoft multiple millions to extend support for Windows XP past the 8 April cutoff date.

The UK extension cost £5.5m but is only valid for a year, after which public-sector users will have to be moved to newer software.
“We have made an agreement with the Crown Commercial Service to provide eligible UK public-sector organisations with the ability to download security updates to Windows XP, Office 2003 and Exchange 2003 for one year until 8 April 2015,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
The support extension will give the NHS and other government departments breathing room to migrate from Windows XP.

A significant number of machines in the public sector remain on Windows XP, according to the Cabinet Office, although plans are in place to ensure that the majority of these are moved to other operating systems over the next 12 months.
Wider extended support for Windows XP, which was released in mid-2001, ends on Tuesday after the operating system was removed from mainstream support in 2009. The date was announced in 2007, giving the government seven years to migrate to newer software – which it hasn’t yet done.

Microsoft will continue releasing virus protection for Windows XP through its Security Essentials application until 14 July 2015.

Up to a quarter of computers in businesses and the public sector will still be running Windows XP after Tuesday, according to data from Gartner, leaving them vulnerable to compromise without continued support.

The CCS claimed the central deal saved the government more than £20m compared with individual departments arranging their own deals with Microsoft.

The extended support deal comes with a requirement that PCs be migrated from Windows XP, Office 2003 or Exchange 2003 within a year. The government expects the majority of machines to be upgraded from Windows XP by April 2015.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... lic-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by pk1 on Sat 13 May, 2017 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Labour accuses Hunt over NHS attack

Labour has accused Jeremy Hunt of ignoring “extensive warning signs” before the unprecedented cyber attack that has plunged the NHS into chaos.

Shadow health secretary Jonathan Ashworth said concerns were repeatedly flagged about the NHS’s outdated computer systems, which left it vulnerable to the virus.

In a letter to Hunt on Saturday he wrote: “As Secretary of State, I urge you to publically outline the immediate steps you’ll be taking to significantly improve cyber security in our NHS. The public has a right to know exactly what the Government will do to ensure that such an attack is never repeated again.”
An earlier statement from the blog
tinybgoat
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by tinybgoat »

PorFavor wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Theresa May seems to think (or is at pains to keep saying) that the NHS having not been specifically targeted is some sort of mitigating factor.
Hope she's correct, but I haven't seen how the machines were compromised (i.e was it just one generic email/attachment or a few tailored to appeal to certain profiles & why did people think it was ok to open it).

Interestingly foi requests have been made asking what operating systems are used in the NHS, I'm surprised at how much information was given.

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/arti ... windows-xp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Indeed. But I meant "mitigating" in terms of Government culpability.
oops, I think i got there eventually - it would arguably be more understandable if it had been compromised by a specific targeted attack, rather than just due to negligence.?
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

tinybgoat wrote: oops, I think i got there eventually - it would arguably be more understandable if it had been compromised by a specific targeted attack, rather than just due to negligence.?
(cJA edit)

I understand you and agree. However, I'll never lose an opportunity to blame catastrophe on Tory neglect when Tories did, in fact, neglect the target. T May's Tory government cyber counter-espionage unit isn't looking too strong or stable at this point.
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Mikko Hypponen, chief research officer at Helsinki-based cyber security company F-Secure, says the attack is “the biggest ransomware outbreak in history”, affecting 130,000 systems in more than 100 countries.

He says that Russia and India were hit particularly hard, partly because the older Windows XP operating system is still widely used in the countries.
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Willow904
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by Willow904 »

pk1 wrote:7th April 2014:
The UK and Dutch governments have paid Microsoft multiple millions to extend support for Windows XP past the 8 April cutoff date.

The UK extension cost £5.5m but is only valid for a year, after which public-sector users will have to be moved to newer software.
“We have made an agreement with the Crown Commercial Service to provide eligible UK public-sector organisations with the ability to download security updates to Windows XP, Office 2003 and Exchange 2003 for one year until 8 April 2015,” said a Microsoft spokesperson.
The support extension will give the NHS and other government departments breathing room to migrate from Windows XP.

A significant number of machines in the public sector remain on Windows XP, according to the Cabinet Office, although plans are in place to ensure that the majority of these are moved to other operating systems over the next 12 months.
Wider extended support for Windows XP, which was released in mid-2001, ends on Tuesday after the operating system was removed from mainstream support in 2009. The date was announced in 2007, giving the government seven years to migrate to newer software – which it hasn’t yet done.

Microsoft will continue releasing virus protection for Windows XP through its Security Essentials application until 14 July 2015.

Up to a quarter of computers in businesses and the public sector will still be running Windows XP after Tuesday, according to data from Gartner, leaving them vulnerable to compromise without continued support.

The CCS claimed the central deal saved the government more than £20m compared with individual departments arranging their own deals with Microsoft.

The extended support deal comes with a requirement that PCs be migrated from Windows XP, Office 2003 or Exchange 2003 within a year. The government expects the majority of machines to be upgraded from Windows XP by April 2015.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... lic-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
All the tech articles I read about the ongoing support refer to the UK deciding not to renew its contract in 2015, which implies there was an option to do so. Which is different to what is being said in the passages which you quote, which suggests there was no option after May 2015. I had thought lots of businesses had been buying ongoing support, but I suppose I may have got that wrong. Even so, the fact Microsoft have released a free patch for this malware in response to the attack, suggests they developed an XP patch at the same time as they developed a patch for their supported systems and I'm not sure why they would do that and only release it for free now, unless they had pay customers they were still supporting. If that makes any sense!

Quite right that the lack of funding for upgrading systems should be a major focus of criticism, though. And there are still questions about how the Welsh NHS dodged this. I'm sure they've still got some XP systems too so what have they done differently? I guess it will all come out eventually!
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

According to one junior doctor who works in a London hospital, the attack left hospitals struggling to care for people. “However much they pretend patient safety is unaffected, it’s not true. At my hospital we are literally unable to do any x-rays, which are an essential component of emergency medicine,” the doctor told the Guardian.

“It’s a good hospital in many ways but the IT is appalling … This is the third or fourth time there has been major computer downtime since I started at my current hospital eight months ago. I know the staff will do their very best to keep looking after everyone but there are no robust systems in place to deal with blackouts like this. Information sharing is hard enough in a clinical environment when everything works.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ransomware" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(cJA emphasis)

Nothing some Tory privatisation won't sort out, right
Pfft

edited to add
I meant no disparagement of the doctor quoted at all
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citizenJA
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Re: Saturday 13th & Sunday 14th May 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Officials have claimed in the wake of the global ransomware attack that patient care has been unaffected despite 45 NHS sites being hit.
But hospitals across England and Scotland were forced to cancel routine procedures and divert emergency cases in the wake of the attack...

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ected-them" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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