Wednesday 17th May 2017

Post by **refitman** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:10 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:18 am

Good Corbyn, one and all

Sorry for missing the Panelbase yesterday. Work.

Headline figures not great

GfK/Business Insider:

CON 48 (+7)
LAB 28 (=)
LD 7 (=)
UKIP 5 (-7)
GRN 3 (-3)
SNP 6 (+1)

3rd-14th
N=1,592

But there is (seriously) some good numbers in there for Corbyn

http://uk.businessinsider.com/poll-jere ... our-2017-5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:56 am

And this, as always, v interesting

https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.c ... ry-moment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:58 am

Burgon

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SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 17 May, 2017 8:08 am

Frank Field helpful as ever

http://www.politico.eu/article/peoples- ... tion-2017/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 17 May, 2017 9:08 am

Morning all.

The lack of a Lib Dems 'surge' as predicted immediately after the EU referendum is a bit of a worry when it comes to the south / south west.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 17 May, 2017 9:38 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

The lack of a Lib Dems 'surge' as predicted immediately after the EU referendum is a bit of a worry when it comes to the south / south west.

There's a slim possibility the Libdems might pull off a comeback in the Wells constituency. Tessa Munt, the previous Libdem MP is standing again and is personally very popular. Meanwhile, James Heappey, the Tory who took her seat, has compounded his already growing unpopularity with this nationally reported incident:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... schoolgirl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Conservative candidate has apologised for telling a Scottish schoolgirl to “fuck off” after she said she would vote for independence if there was a second referendum.

James Heappey, who is standing for re-election in Wells, made the remark during a debate with sixth-formers at the fee-paying Millfield school in Somerset.

Generally, though, I agree, it's not looking good. Even Bath may be difficult for the Libdems to recapture. The current Tory MP there, Ben Howlett, is pro-EU and an effective politician. I'm not especially hopeful.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:17 am

John Rentoul being a dick on Twitter. I put in my 2 pence worth, you'll be glad to hear. I might be underwhelmed by Corbyn, but good economics is good economics whoever it's coming from. I don't really understand why political journalists are so happy to make themselves look like economic illiterates just to cover for the Tories. Where's their intellectual pride?

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StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:24 am

Willow904 wrote:John Rentoul being a dick on Twitter. I put in my 2 pence worth, you'll be glad to hear. I might be underwhelmed by Corbyn, but good economics is good economics whoever it's coming from. I don't really understand why political journalists are so happy to make themselves look like economic illiterates just to cover for the Tories. Where's their intellectual pride?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's never Labour supporters. The label is always Corbyn supporters.

I know there's at least one Rentoul fan that posts here but personally, he's a right Ted.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:36 am

"Hello, 999, please state the nature of your emergency "

" There's a big car crash ongoing at the Canary Wharf "

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:41 am

StephenDolan wrote:
Willow904 wrote:John Rentoul being a dick on Twitter. I put in my 2 pence worth, you'll be glad to hear. I might be underwhelmed by Corbyn, but good economics is good economics whoever it's coming from. I don't really understand why political journalists are so happy to make themselves look like economic illiterates just to cover for the Tories. Where's their intellectual pride?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's never Labour supporters. The label is always Corbyn supporters.

I know there's at least one Rentoul fan that posts here but personally, he's a right Ted.

I suppose my rebuttal makes me a "Corbyn supporter" now

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:55 am

StephenDolan wrote:"Hello, 999, please state the nature of your emergency "

" There's a big car crash ongoing at the Canary Wharf "

I'm not so sure. Hammond is seen as a pro-EU liberal. Hints May might drop him will go down well with the Kipper vote she's cultivating, I would have thought.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 11:09 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Good Corbyn, one and all

Sorry for missing the Panelbase yesterday. Work.

Headline figures not great

GfK/Business Insider:

CON 48 (+7)
LAB 28 (=)
LD 7 (=)
UKIP 5 (-7)
GRN 3 (-3)
SNP 6 (+1)

3rd-14th
N=1,592

But there is (seriously) some good numbers in there for Corbyn

http://uk.businessinsider.com/poll-jere ... our-2017-5" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Polls taken over that long a time period are always suspect.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 17 May, 2017 11:52 am

Good morfternoon.

[Len McCluskey said]I believe these next three weeks will throw up something that is quite extraordinary. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Put me in mind of fur balls.

(I'm the servant of a long-haired cat - hence the association. It's not a political comment.)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 11:59 am

SpinningHugo wrote:And this, as always, v interesting

https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.c ... ry-moment/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some scepticism about his thesis in the comments. Quite correctly IMO.

The current Tory "coalition" is impressive in size but inherently unstable (even more so than Blair's was in 1997)

It would take a politician of genius to keep it intact for any length of time (even leaving aside the "events" that will inevitably happen)

However much she is puffed up by certain sycophantic stenographers masquerading as "journalists", May is not that person.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 17 May, 2017 12:04 pm

Did anyone hear Hammond's "car crash" interview this morning.

Funny how dear Laura isn't crowing about it....

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 12:35 pm

Re the discussion about the LibDems above, their manifesto is out later today.

When are the Tories releasing theirs, btw? The original spin on this was that they would be out of the blocks first, leaving the other parties trailing in their wake......

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 17 May, 2017 1:09 pm

Just in case anyone here has been missing Boris Johnson, here he is, in fine fettle -

12:57
Boris Johnson in Sikh temple alcohol gaffe

Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, has been visiting a Sikh temple. As Pete Simson from BBC Bristol reports, it hasn’t gone well ... (Politics Live, Guardian)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 1:34 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 17 May, 2017 1:54 pm

PorFavor wrote:Just in case anyone here has been missing Boris Johnson, here he is, in fine fettle -

12:57
Boris Johnson in Sikh temple alcohol gaffe

Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, has been visiting a Sikh temple. As Pete Simson from BBC Bristol reports, it hasn’t gone well ... (Politics Live, Guardian)

Just noticed that the current Mrs Johnson is of Sikh descent (according to Wikipedia), maybe he just hasn't been paying attention.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 2:10 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Did anyone hear Hammond's "car crash" interview this morning.

Funny how dear Laura isn't crowing about it....

Has she mentioned it yet?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 2:29 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Did anyone hear Hammond's "car crash" interview this morning.

Funny how dear Laura isn't crowing about it....
Has she mentioned it yet?

Laura K's twitter silence speaks volumes

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 17 May, 2017 2:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Did anyone hear Hammond's "car crash" interview this morning.

Funny how dear Laura isn't crowing about it....
Has she mentioned it yet?

Nope. What's £20bn here or there.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 3:50 pm

Hello?

Anyone there??

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 4:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Hello?

Anyone there??

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 17 May, 2017 4:16 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -manifesto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lib-dem-defence-48-rubbish-politics-tim-farron-brexit-manifesto

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 17 May, 2017 4:25 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40881.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A Democratic congressman has become the first to call for Donald Trump’s impeachment from the floor of the House.
Al Green, of Texas, told fellow representatives in Congress: "This is where I stand. I will not be moved. The President must be impeached," he said.
It followed revelations that Mr Trump had pressured James Comey, then the director of the FBI, to drop the investigation into General Mike Flynn.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 4:43 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -manifesto

lib-dem-defence-48-rubbish-politics-tim-farron-brexit-manifesto

"His pitch to an open, tolerant Britain" - you see, this is the sort of framing that gets peoples backs up.

Just believing that the referendum result - however much you regret it - should be respected doesn't transform you into a closed minded intolerant bigot.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 17 May, 2017 4:50 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40881.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A Democratic congressman has become the first to call for Donald Trump’s impeachment from the floor of the House.
Al Green, of Texas, told fellow representatives in Congress: "This is where I stand. I will not be moved. The President must be impeached," he said.
It followed revelations that Mr Trump had pressured James Comey, then the director of the FBI, to drop the investigation into General Mike Flynn.

Will others join him, do you think? Will he say, "I'm so tired of being alone"?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 17 May, 2017 4:52 pm

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... dd-up.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

let me end on a positive note. It is great to finally have at least one of the two main parties putting the case for a large increase in public investment when the government’s borrowing costs are so low. It is great to see one party prepared to raise taxes to stop the growing squeeze on the NHS and the new squeeze on education. It is great that Labour have a fiscal rule which tries to represent current macroeconomic understanding rather than the wisdom of the Swabian housewife. Let’s hope this lasts beyond this election.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 17 May, 2017 4:55 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -manifesto

lib-dem-defence-48-rubbish-politics-tim-farron-brexit-manifesto
"His pitch to an open, tolerant Britain" - you see, this is the sort of framing that gets peoples backs up.

Just believing that the referendum result - however much you regret it - should be respected doesn't transform you into a closed minded intolerant bigot.

Not all leavers were right wing/tory/ukip either. plenty of left leaners to. And fence sitters who fell that direction when prodded hard enough.

Bit quiet here....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 5:54 pm

Right-wing nutter sending economic markets into tail spins and threatening the global wa (和) all because he's the US President

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 17 May, 2017 6:01 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 40881.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A Democratic congressman has become the first to call for Donald Trump’s impeachment from the floor of the House.
Al Green, of Texas, told fellow representatives in Congress: "This is where I stand. I will not be moved. The President must be impeached," he said.
It followed revelations that Mr Trump had pressured James Comey, then the director of the FBI, to drop the investigation into General Mike Flynn.
Will others join him, do you think? Will he say, "I'm so tired of being alone"?

I'm so tired of being alone, you ought to be with me. Here I am, full of fire. People get ready, let's stay together, Sha la la.

(on further thoughts, maybe not the 'Sha la la' bit)

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 17 May, 2017 6:22 pm

citizenJA wrote:Right-wing nutter sending economic markets into tail spins and threatening the global wa (和) all because he's the US President

Thankyou. New to me. But yes, what of it we humans can muster.
Need to recognise properly the contributions here too and turn them around. We have our own shoe loving version.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 6:36 pm

la tee da

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 17 May, 2017 6:46 pm

continuing from yesterday:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/lav ... 41371.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The case of Lavinia Woodward exposes the troubling inequality at the heart of our justice system
The same mercy should be accorded to another defendant with the aim of becoming a care assistant, or one who was a checkout assistant at Tesco with aspirations towards becoming a supervisor

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:00 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ia-scandal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trump: 'No politician in history has been treated more unfairly'

Malcolm X
Nelson Mandela
John F Kennedy
Aung San Suu Kyi
et al

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:02 pm

The Donaeld:

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 9h9 hours ago
LYING SCRIBES taking my note out of context. NOT FAIR! Wouldn't do this to Crooked Aethelflaed. Should read Let this go, or I'll let you go.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:10 pm

Surgeons call for review of safety standards in private hospitals

Royal College of Surgeons says safety fears should be made more transparent after conviction of Ian Paterson last month

In an[sic] letter to the government, the RCS said private healthcare patients had less information about safety concerns in privately run hospitals than those in the NHS. Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... n-paterson

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:36 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... ae5933489e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Russian president Vladimir Putin has offered Congress a transcript of Donald Trump’s Oval Office meeting with Russian officials as proof that Trump did not reveal any intelligence. It was not immediately clear how Putin would have such a transcript available.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:46 pm

Around seven million* people are not correctly registered to vote in the UK.
That means they can’t have their say in the general election on 8 June 2017.
We don’t have long to get the word out there.

The registration deadline is midnight on Monday 22 May.

*This figure relates to the registers for Parliamentary general elections only.
For local government elections (where more people are eligible to vote), we estimate the number of people who aren’t correctly registered could be as high as eight million.

https://www.yourvotematters.co.uk/get-i ... -resources

The total number of UK parliamentary electors in December 2016 was 45,766,000...

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... -increases" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Wed 17 May, 2017 7:52 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ia-scandal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trump: 'No politician in history has been treated more unfairly'
Malcolm X
Nelson Mandela
John F Kennedy
Aung San Suu Kyi
et al

Not to mention Saddam Hussein, Ghadaffi, Ceaucescu, and a host of less savoury creatures. Theres a long line of them good, bad and indifferent.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 17 May, 2017 8:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... cial-media" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The information commissioner has launched an investigation into the way UK political parties target voters through social media with a warning that if they send political messages to people based on their individual data, they could be breaking the law.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 8:13 pm

Haven't seen a thing about Hammond speaking this morning
What happened, anyway?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 17 May, 2017 8:18 pm

the understatement:

GP Louise Irvine: ‘Jeremy Hunt has not been a good steward of the NHS’
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ise-irvine" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:37 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:40 pm

Theresa May to unveil policy of making older people pay for social care

Tory leader hopes strong lead in polls will allow her to get away with ‘difficult but necessary’ measure to tackle growing crisis (Guardian)

Glad I got up again to receive that piece of good news. And ordinary people actually vote for the Conservatives?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ocial-care

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:48 pm

RIP Rhodri Morgan.

One of the good guys.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:48 pm

Don't know whether this has escaped over the border:

Scottish Labour was plunged into civil war last night after the party suspended its group of councillors in Aberdeen for agreeing to form a coalition with the Conservatives on the city council. In an open challenge to Kezia Dugdale’s authority as leader, the nine elected representatives ignored warnings from party officials not to proceed with a power-sharing deal with 11 Tories and three independents.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/g ... -1-4447944" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leaving aside the rather inflammatory "civil war" description, I wonder if such a coalition could work.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 17 May, 2017 10:49 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:Don't know whether this has escaped over the border:

Scottish Labour was plunged into civil war last night after the party suspended its group of councillors in Aberdeen for agreeing to form a coalition with the Conservatives on the city council. In an open challenge to Kezia Dugdale’s authority as leader, the nine elected representatives ignored warnings from party officials not to proceed with a power-sharing deal with 11 Tories and three independents.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/g ... -1-4447944" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leaving aside the rather inflammatory "civil war" description, I wonder if such a coalition could work.

Doing it in the midst of a GE campaign was asking for trouble, they might at least have had the sense to stall for a few weeks!