Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st May 2017

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Sat 20 May, 2017 4:32 pm

After God had finished the rattlesnake, the toad, and the vampire, he had some awful substance left with which he made a scab.

A scab is a two-legged animal with a corkscrew soul, a water brain, a combination backbone of jelly and glue.

Where others have hearts, he carries a tumor of rotten principles.

When a scab comes down the street, men turn their backs and angels weep in heaven, and the devil shuts the gates of hell to keep him out.

No man (or woman) has a right to scab so long as there is a pool of water to drown his carcass in, or a rope long enough to hang his body with.

Judas was a gentleman compared with a scab. For betraying his master, he had character enough to hang himself. A scab has not.

Esau sold his birthright for a mess of pottage.

Judas sold his Savior for thirty pieces of silver.

Benedict Arnold sold his country for a promise of a commission in the British army.

The scab sells his birthright, country, his wife, his children and his fellowmen for an unfulfilled promise from his employer.

Esau was a traitor to himself; Judas was a traitor to his God; Benedict Arnold was a traitor to his country.

A scab is a traitor to his God, his country, his family and his class.

Jack London (1876-1916)

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 20 May, 2017 4:33 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Any Greens (or pretend ones) on here who would like to comment

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... udent-debt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Truly dumb, but as that is under 10% of the cost to government finances of Brexit (ie we ignore all the other costs), vote for a party that holds out the hope of avoiding Hard Brexit is my advice.

Brexit dwarfs everything else in importance.

No, human lives dwarf everything in importance. Some of them will not be around to seecbrexit or not, because of policy. We cannot turn around views on Brexit without offering British people some remission from austerity because the tories already wrote the script on that. The one, btw, that you seem to follow, except when you are pains to deny it. The only people making this vote about brexit are May and Farron, who hasn't got a clue and is sinking fast. Austerity is why we have brexit. And of course the tory programme of deconstruction of Britain.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 20 May, 2017 4:42 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
TechnicalEphemera wrote: The press did not magically decide to back Blair. They swapped sides when it became clear that Blair was going to win. The hard work was done by Blair, Brown (and previously Smith and Kinnock) and a huge team of competent focussed people.

It helped that Major screwed up the economy, but that only worked because Labour had worked hard to be credible and trusted on it.

Hugo is right in at least this, stop bleating and work out how to win, otherwise get used to decades of shit Tory governments.
[bleat]It's unproven(and hard to prove) how much influence media has on elections, there's only been 3 Labour leaders who've won elections so it seems a bit woolly pointing out Blair won, having a good press, whilst ignoring all the labour leaders who've lost with a bad press & dismissing press bias as just being a winge.
Following Kinnocks 1992 defeat, Blair seems to have thought it important enough to court Murdoch. Maybe if Labour started winning in the polls, some papers would swap sides but I think the damage done comes from being anti Brown/Miliband/Corbyn from the start of their leaderships. Blair had impressed Murdoch before becoming leader & set out to court him early on, realistically this was never possible for Corbyn ( morally, politically or logistically) in the short time since he's been leader.
[/bleat]

Nor Ed Miliband. As I recall the press had him as Red Ed, the wrong brother before he even became leader, and it escalated from there. It is impossible to separate political outcomes (on three continents, possibly more) from Murdoch influence. Hardly a singularly British "bleat".

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:06 pm

Not just the pensioners/the elderly receive social care by any means.The Tory manifesto is replete with mention of "the elderly care system" no such ####ing system exists.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:06 pm

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 46% (-1)
LAB: 33% (+1)
LDEM: 8% (-)
UKIP: 5% (-)
GRN: 2% (-)

(via @OpiniumResearch / 16 - 17 May)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:17 pm

Thanks for hellos,I fully intend to make you regret it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:26 pm

Especially PF.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:32 pm

Not a moot point,the whole section reads like a four year olds attempt and level of comprehension(apology to four year olds)

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:45 pm

PorFavor wrote:I've today received a "personalised" letter, aimed at postal voters, from the Conservative candidate (Penny Mordaunt) asking for my vote.

There's no mention of "strong and stable" or, indeed, Theresa May (not by name, anyway). Instead, I'm asked to support Penny Mordaunt to " secure a government and a Prime Minister who will etc etc". Or at least that's what I'm assuming it's meant to say. Although it actually says "Prime a Minister". Amused me. Theresa May will be mortified and there will be a black mark against Penny Mordaunt's name, I expect.

(An election leaflet from Labour arrived yesterday.)

That's interesting. Ours arrived today from 'Rt Hon Theresa May, Prime Minister', with her picture on it but not the candidate's, although his name is mentioned a couple of times. Lots of 'labour are a shambles under JC' 'strong and stable' 'coalition of chaos', and finishing with a PS that says it all again.

'Higher taxes, fewer jobs, more waste and more debt', JC's 'nonsensical and dangerous ideas' as well, thrown the kitchen sink at it basically.

I wonder if the candidates have a choice of leaflets?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:49 pm

Interesting read from Oborne.
Corbyn's election manifesto for the Middle East is radical and morally courageous
http://www.middleeasteye.net/columns/co ... 2036528122" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:50 pm

In the spirit of not just bleating,
I think Labour should possibly counteract the Tories "who would you prefer negotiating brexit" question with
i) Not Teresa May
ii) Someone other than Corbyn
I can't see how prime minister would have the time to lead negotiations, but would have thought the Brexit secretary would be in charge.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:50 pm

I am afraid "emotions" got the better of me in intercepting a Tory leaflet attempt and a few,not sweary,but firmly put words to the trespasser and one reason I came back,I think ,as an outlet lest one of my two heads exploded.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 5:57 pm

He looked about four,funnilly enough.Tarquin gnawed his shoes,on the basis that nobody would believe it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 6:18 pm

Having thought about it,fully justified,to give back a response.Putting unwarranted propaganda through your door isn't a neutral act.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 20 May, 2017 6:26 pm

So then 3 weeks more of May hiding from the electors and hoping her wave continues until June 8th without losing momentum

Looking at polling numbers I would hazard a guess that 25% of the people saying they will vote Tory have never voted for them before - how soft is this vote?

If this was a more 'normal' election as AK defined it then I would have a bit more confidence in the polls - how vulnerable are the models in predicting this change which is unprecedented in my memory - much more so even than 1997?

Will all these people turnout on the day to vote Tory - if they think it will be a landslide may they stay at home not to get 'blood on their hands'?

I still expect a Tory win but a more closer result with the Tories 40% or less would definitely not surprise me - perhaps a result with a margin around the same as 2015 but higher for both main parties?

I have no evidence for this which is why I am asking the question - but all I hear doesn't suggest to me that the Tories are going to outpoll Blair in 97 or Thatcher in her pomp

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 May, 2017 6:55 pm

gilsey wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've today received a "personalised" letter, aimed at postal voters, from the Conservative candidate (Penny Mordaunt) asking for my vote.

There's no mention of "strong and stable" or, indeed, Theresa May (not by name, anyway). Instead, I'm asked to support Penny Mordaunt to " secure a government and a Prime Minister who will etc etc". Or at least that's what I'm assuming it's meant to say. Although it actually says "Prime a Minister". Amused me. Theresa May will be mortified and there will be a black mark against Penny Mordaunt's name, I expect.

(An election leaflet from Labour arrived yesterday.)
That's interesting. Ours arrived today from 'Rt Hon Theresa May, Prime Minister', with her picture on it but not the candidate's, although his name is mentioned a couple of times. Lots of 'labour are a shambles under JC' 'strong and stable' 'coalition of chaos', and finishing with a PS that says it all again.

'Higher taxes, fewer jobs, more waste and more debt', JC's 'nonsensical and dangerous ideas' as well, hrown the kitchen sink at it basically.

I wonder if the candidates have a choice of leaflets?

There was a strange PS on mine, too.

Here it is, reproduced in full -

"Remember, our fight is not against the other parties. For us, it is about achieving the best for you and your family. Please give me the chance to do so by voting Conservative."

Overall, the theme is very much local renewal and related issues.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 20 May, 2017 6:57 pm

Interesting others had Tory leaflets today. We had one too. Jacob Rees-Mogg supports Theresa May for Prime Minister, apparently, in case we hadn't guessed.

Am a little concerned there's been nothing from Labour yet. Are they leaving it closer to the election?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 May, 2017 6:57 pm

Remember, folks - Prime a Minister today!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 6:59 pm

HindleA wrote:That didn't last long,after convincing myself why I should l leave and rather good exit,if I do say so myself,I've convinced myself it was exactly the wrong thing to do so "Frank" is back.Of course I was correct both times.

To treat home care the same is exactly the opposite what needs to be done and I would say insane.Think vast cost saving association,loathe to ask for support as it is,before you get to independent enhancing and health benefits.Granted there are costs in keeping the inconvenient alive longer than otherwise.Consistent with the only possible housing support for home owners being a repayable interest bearing loan,largely aimed at the severely sick/disabled,given it was time limited in anycase elsewise.

In my humble work/personal based opinion I should add,to lessen stridency.

It's wonderful to read you here, my friend.
I've been away from FlyTheNest for a few days, nothing to do with anyone here. I was feeling a lot of fear.

Everything changes. None of that change may be good. I've loving family and friends all over the world. We're regular people, not kingpins. My family and friends are sorrowful now. We're frightened by cruelty the powerful use towards those with less power.

I just read Prabhakari below the line elsewhere. Love is an action, a verb. Love is more powerful than fear.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:07 pm

“Hope for the Best? Expect the worst. Strife under May. I've ordered the hearse."

(Apologies to Willow904. I'm feeling despondent.)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:15 pm

Good late afternoon, everyone

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:18 pm

Early evening,split.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:18 pm

HindleA wrote:Not just the pensioners/the elderly receive social care by any means.The Tory manifesto is replete with mention of "the elderly care system" no such ####ing system exists.

Agreed, it is just social care. At any age. I have a similar niggle over TM policy on this being called dementia tax. Inaccurate, emotive and defeats the object entirely. But then I guess any cost does, they want to remove the duty of care in our system entirely. That is where they are heading. So framing it in the most negative context works for them.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:20 pm

PF did you spot any cock references in Mordaunt's letter?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:29 pm

Just been watching footage of this mornings events in Birmingham. John McD great on education. "Education is the gift of one generation to the next. "

People who could not get in were watching live in the nearby pubs in Broad street. All speakers were recieved well.

Except in my case the moment my device had JC in view it crashed. This is becoming a regular feature of my days. Click on a labour link, crash, click on the canary, crash, click on another well known disabled labour blogger, crash. click on the independent, multiple reloads then crash. But click on any junk site and everythings fine. Others also mentioning this.

Anyway outcome is I did not get to hear Corbyn, shall have o look at a transcript.
Hours after the event comments were still pouring onto page continuously through three speakers, people were watching whole event, no negatives, lots of personal contributions relating to content of speeches. This does not look like a bunch of people sleeping on the job, or a bunch of no hopers.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:36 pm

gilsey wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I've today received a "personalised" letter, aimed at postal voters, from the Conservative candidate (Penny Mordaunt) asking for my vote.

There's no mention of "strong and stable" or, indeed, Theresa May (not by name, anyway). Instead, I'm asked to support Penny Mordaunt to " secure a government and a Prime Minister who will etc etc". Or at least that's what I'm assuming it's meant to say. Although it actually says "Prime a Minister". Amused me. Theresa May will be mortified and there will be a black mark against Penny Mordaunt's name, I expect.

(An election leaflet from Labour arrived yesterday.)
That's interesting. Ours arrived today from 'Rt Hon Theresa May, Prime Minister', with her picture on it but not the candidate's, although his name is mentioned a couple of times. Lots of 'labour are a shambles under JC' 'strong and stable' 'coalition of chaos', and finishing with a PS that says it all again.

'Higher taxes, fewer jobs, more waste and more debt', JC's 'nonsensical and dangerous ideas' as well, thrown the kitchen sink at it basically.

I wonder if the candidates have a choice of leaflets?

A few people round here have had them, I have seen screenshots. They were taken by the fact that theirs looked identical in format to Home Office refusal notices. They did look extremely officious to me would be interested to know whether yours were the same. Said to be same font even.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:42 pm

Hooray! (for the A)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 7:51 pm

I didn't want to let my mass following down(further)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:06 pm

To answer howsilly's question.I am the World's worst predictor,fwiw this is the first time that more neutral relatives are less sure than me and "she might get a surprise" thing,not in not winning but closer than most expect,including me,but clear that Tory voters hardly need to turn up and should be encouraged to have the day celebrating rather than bothering.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:16 pm

@Willow,we have had two weeks of leafletting/activity locally,national pack stuff arrived last week.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:25 pm

HindleA wrote:PF did you spot any cock references in Mordaunt's letter?

No - not even after a re-read!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:41 pm

Postal votes next week.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:42 pm

Wish I knew where my pen is.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 20 May, 2017 8:46 pm

V grim:

http://www.independent.co.uk/environmen ... 46526.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Arctic stronghold known as the “Doomsday Vault”, which was designed to protect the world’s most precious seeds from global catastrophe, has been flooded by melting ice.

The Svalbard Global Seed Vault, built to preserve humanity’s food sources in the event of man-made or natural disasters, was breached after rising temperatures sent water gushing through its entrance tunnel.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:05 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 45256.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
quiz says I should vote for Labour (!)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:06 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:15 pm

@TC2 I noticed the disingenuine and biased framing of social care threshold question.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:16 pm

A French lawyer is seeking to prove that the Brexit negotiations are illegal and should be cancelled because thousands of British citizens living overseas were denied the vote in last year’s referendum.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 45216.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 20 May, 2017 9:51 pm

HindleA wrote:@TC2 I noticed the disingenuine and biased framing of social care threshold question.

indeed. v. tricky.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 10:41 pm

night night PF,tc2 and anybody else.

I waited for PF acknowledgement of cock reference she was obviously in need of.

I'm too bloody kind,to you lot.

Frank

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 20 May, 2017 11:25 pm

PorFavor wrote:
There was a strange PS on mine, too.

Here it is, reproduced in full -

"Remember, our fight is not against the other parties. For us, it is about achieving the best for you and your family. Please give me the chance to do so by voting Conservative."

Overall, the theme is very much local renewal and related issues.

No local issues at all.

PS in full
"So the choice at this election is clear. Strong and stable leadership with me in the national interest to see us through Brexit and beyond, or a hung parliament and coalition of chaos with Jeremy Corbyn negotiating Brexit. Give me and Rishi Sunak your support, and I will get the best Brexit deal for you. I will stand up for you and govern for you."

What is this thing with JC negotiating Brexit anyway? A. Nobody in their wildest dreams is expecting Tories not to have the most seats and B. That would be Starmer, who might be disappointing in some ways but is a charismatic genius in comparison to David Davis.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 20 May, 2017 11:43 pm

[youtube]S-lHrDPjGfQ[/youtube]

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 21 May, 2017 12:27 am

Front pages interesting. Take a peek....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 21 May, 2017 12:29 am

???? You get your newspapers delivered at this time of night?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 21 May, 2017 7:33 am

Front pages (a la Clanger):

the G:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... 0-families" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May’s plan to end free school lunches ‘to hit 900,000 struggling families’

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... pay-crisis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NHS chief tells ministers: face up to the pay crisis

The I:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 46171.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Conservatives' rebrand as 'party of the workers' failing as they struggle to shake off 'nasty' tag, poll shows
Exclusive poll shows 47 per cent of the public think Labour would best represent the working class

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 47016.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Donald Trump appears to 'curtsey' to Saudi king after mocking Barack Obama for bowing
President called Mr Obama an 'amateur' for bowing to foreign leaders

The Donaeld:

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready

Swedes called off raid on Hwicce, leaks Julian the Strange! Allows exiled leader to finally stop living in 5* hovel in west end of Lundune!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 21 May, 2017 7:39 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One peculiarity of this campaign is that policies such as caps on the charges made by energy suppliers were derided by the Conservatives when propagated by Corbyn’s predecessor, Ed Miliband, but have now been brazenly filched by Theresa May. This is in accordance with the first law of Conservative dynamics: do anything to stay in, or regain, power.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 21 May, 2017 7:47 am

http://www.essexlive.news/a-year-after- ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
However, the issue of Brexit has become almost irrelevant in Clacton, which from 2014, until March 2017 had the country's only UKIP MP in Douglas Carswell.

A little more than 12 per cent of people in Clacton said that Brexit was at the forefront of their minds heading into the voting booth.

Instead the issues surrounding the NHS are seen as problems affecting four times as many people's voting intentions – with 47.5 per cent of people saying the NHS was important to them.

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 21 May, 2017 7:50 am

HindleA wrote:???? You get your newspapers delivered at this time of night?

TV. Interesting, will they have been changed this morning?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Sun 21 May, 2017 7:51 am

Hmmmm. The media strike again?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 21 May, 2017 9:06 am

Am sure all seen, but for the record

Survation/Mail:

CON 46 (-2)
LAB 34 (+4)
LDE 8 (=)
UKIP 3 (-1)
GRN 1 (-1)
SNP 4 (=)

19th-20th
N=1,017
YouGov/Sunday Times:

CON 44 (-1)
LAB 35 (+3)
LD 9 (+1)
UKIP 3 (-3)

Changes vs 17th
18th-19th May
N=1,925

Tory seat majority down to 45 or so if latter right.