Monday 22nd May 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 22 May, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 May, 2017 8:12 am

Survation/GMB (Phone):

CON 43 (-5)
LAB 34 (+5)
LD 8 (=)
UKIP 4 (=)
GRN 2 (=)
SNP 3 (-1)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 8:20 am

Good-morning, everyone

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 22 May, 2017 8:33 am

Morning all.

About a decade ago I used to buy the New Yorker but gave up eventually as I got way behind with them (and still have a pile on the floor waiting to be read). But I do buy it when I go away and then read on planes and trains.

Anyway, I read this in the latest issue which I found interesting. I know it's US-based but as we know trends tend to travel across and some of it is already here. Quite long but worth a read if you have time.

IS THE GIG ECONOMY WORKING?

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/ ... my-working

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 May, 2017 9:09 am

Morning all. Manic weekend, caught up with the reading back, thanks to all who posted over the weekend.

Dementia tax is going nowhere from the news, the Tories Google advertising acknowledges that it's exploded in their faces.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 22 May, 2017 9:38 am

On apprenticeships.

Conservatives continue to peddle a lie

http://feweek.co.uk/2017/05/19/conserva ... dle-a-lie/

Last year just one in four apprentice starts (26 per cent) were under 19, compared to nearly half (44 per cent) aged 25 or over.

In fact, last year nearly a quarter (23.8 per cent) of apprenticeship starts were aged 35 and over, of which 3,560 of them were aged 60 and over.

All these adults (the majority of apprentices and likely not new in jobs) are being counted towards the 3 million target, despite maintaining a manifesto commitment to 3 million apprentice starts for “young people”.

Just as well we got that of that Labour target culture eh?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 May, 2017 10:16 am

Ben Bradshaw @BenPBradshaw

If the Tories think £100,000 is "reasonable inheritance" after care bills, why are they raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million?

Well, yeah.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 May, 2017 10:18 am

SpinningHugo wrote:Survation/GMB (Phone):

CON 43 (-5)
LAB 34 (+5)
LD 8 (=)
UKIP 4 (=)
GRN 2 (=)
SNP 3 (-1)

Annoyingly, those are UK-wide figures (as with the previous Survation GMB poll)

Though I think the only effect of converting them to GB (as is usual with polls) is to bump the LibDems and SNP up a point.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 22 May, 2017 10:47 am

People are putting up 'Strong and stable my arse' signs up across London

https://www.indy100.com/article/general ... paign=i100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I know. Airhead.
Think of me as a "human" 60's TV interlude film.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:05 am

Are they falling down to make the point?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:27 am

Oops.

George Osborne‏Verified account
@George_Osborne

Follow
More
U-turn coming on social care. There will be a cap. Read today's @EveningStandard for the details

Nothing like a well-thought out plan and this etc...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:28 am

StephenDolan wrote:Ben Bradshaw @BenPBradshaw

If the Tories think £100,000 is "reasonable inheritance" after care bills, why are they raising the inheritance tax threshold to £1 million?

Well, yeah.

I've just posted a comment elsewhere about this issue.
Tory policy is miserly towards most people and preferential towards themselves.
Tories think they can get away with this?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:30 am

I hate wearing Tory caps

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:37 am

Good morf..

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:48 am

ternoon.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:50 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oops.

George Osborne‏Verified account
@George_Osborne

Follow
More
U-turn coming on social care. There will be a cap. Read today's @EveningStandard for the details
Nothing like a well-thought out plan and this etc...

Don't suppose there'll be extra funding as well for councils to provide better social care (for young and old alike) to people who don't own a house, of which there's a growing number. Welcome as this row back would be if it comes, I think we should keep pressing the main point that cuts to money to councils to look after those who have nothing, not even a house, still need to be reversed or the social care crisis will continue. It is such typical Tory strategy to try for something truly horrendous and when not accepted row back to something less horrendous but equally useless and get heralded as heroes for something which, if it had been offered up as an initial policy would have been derided as pants.

Nevertheless, pleased to see this nasty Tory government finally run into some limits. It was beginning to feel like they could get away with anything which didn't involve charging self-employed journalists more NI.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:52 am

Theresa May, speaking in Wrexham -

But since my manifesto was published, the proposals have been subject to fake claims made by Jeremy Corbyn. (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 11:57 am

Did I hear Donald Trump refer to King Salman as "King Solomon"? That's what it sounded like to me, anyway.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:02 pm

Now that the manifesto is being attacked (by Laura Kuenssberg, no less) Theresa May has now dropped into referring to "we". Nothing like sharing, is there?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:02 pm

Laura K. has questioned the strength and stability of the Supreme Leader!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:07 pm

Um...has there been a u-turn on a social care cap? Or is Theresa May just pretending her £100,000 floor is a "cap" to muddy the waters?

'Strong and stable' this ain't. It's a shambles.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:09 pm

Willow904 wrote:Um...has there been a u-turn on a social care cap? Or is Theresa May just pretending her £100,000 floor is a "cap" to muddy the waters?

'Strong and stable' this ain't. It's a shambles.

It was called 'a manifesto of chaos'
May still insisting nothing has changed

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:11 pm

So you won't have to sell your home to pay for care. Or go below £100k savings.

So.

Will it be paid from your estate?
What is the absolute limit?
Where is the shortfall going to come from?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:15 pm

May’s claim that her manifesto plans on social care were subject to “fake claims made by Jeremy Corbyn” (see 11.48am) is not true.

This is what the manifesto said about social care. It promised a “floor” for costs - a maximum that people would be allowed to retain,
when they are paying their care costs, so that people would be allowed to keep their last £100,000. But it did not propose a “cap”,
a maximum amount that people would have to spend.

Corbyn’s claim that this would lead to some people pay more was entirely correct.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 009308ed65" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:19 pm

What ever it is it will be a long term solution,perhaps to the weekend.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:21 pm

[youtube]ESy-Z8vqMrE[/youtube]

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:24 pm

Willow904 wrote:Um...has there been a u-turn on a social care cap? Or is Theresa May just pretending her £100,000 floor is a "cap" to muddy the waters?

'Strong and stable' this ain't. It's a shambles.

There's going to be a "consultation", apparently. If they had announced that at the outset, they might have got away with it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:25 pm

StephenDolan wrote:So you won't have to sell your home to pay for care. Or go below £100k savings.

So.

Will it be paid from your estate?
What is the absolute limit?
Where is the shortfall going to come from?

We don't know
Theresa May is making no sense whatsoever, insists nothing has changed
This is what the Tory manifesto says

"First, we will align the future basis for means-testing for domiciliary care with that for residential care, so that people are looked after in the place that is best for them. This will mean that the value of the family home will be taken into account along with other assets and income, whether care is provided at home, or in a residential or nursing care home.

Second, to ensure this is fair, we will introduce a single capital floor, set at £100,000, more than four times the current means test threshold. This will ensure that, no matter how large the cost of care turns out to be, people will always retain at least £100,000 of their savings and assets, including value in the family home.

Third, we will extend the current freedom to defer payments for residential care to those receiving care at home, so no-one will have to sell their home in their lifetime to pay for care."

Tory Manifesto 2017.pdf

(cJA emphasis)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:29 pm

The house gets counted with other assets and savings, there's no limit to how much you'll have to pay for social care, only £100,000 maximum will be protected as an inheritance, the house gets sold after you're dead. That's the Tory Manifesto.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:32 pm

Theresa May got a vicious way about her, you know?
'You'll believe what I've told you, god damn you'

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:36 pm

Conservatives buy 'dementia tax' Google ad as criticism of policy grows
Tactic shows Tories are willing to adopt pejorative term for policy in order to tackle criticism of social care proposals

The Conservatives have paid for a Google advert that appears at the top of the page when users search for “dementia tax” in response to growing attacks on Theresa May’s social care policy.

People using the search engine on Monday to find out about the term, coined to describe the prime minister’s manifesto commitment to shake up the funding of old age care, found the top result was a paid-for link from Conservatives.com that read: “The so-called ‘dementia tax’ – get the real facts.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... licy-grows" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These Tory people are scarier than hell, who on earth votes for them?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:38 pm

"Claps" and "crate". I know George Osborne pronounced the words in this way, but it's now common usage. Very annoying.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:39 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Um...has there been a u-turn on a social care cap? Or is Theresa May just pretending her £100,000 floor is a "cap" to muddy the waters?

'Strong and stable' this ain't. It's a shambles.
There's going to be a "consultation", apparently. If they had announced that at the outset, they might have got away with it.

Those pesky kids!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:42 pm

Theresa May makes fake claims about fake claims.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:54 pm

At the Labour launch Jeremy Corbyn welcomes the U-turn.
He says that if George Osborne is now doing something useful with his life, that is to be welcomed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 12:59 pm

Hate to think where Toby would place IDS's "products"given the chance.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 1:08 pm

(Haven't got a)Scooby Doo

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 1:25 pm

"And if George Osborne is at last doing something useful in his life of supporting proper funding for social care, then thank you George for that.
And I urge him to read very carefully our manifesto says on social care."

- Jeremy Corbyn

Guardian Live Blog

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 1:47 pm

The Tories promised to give expats the vote last year

The genius, or cynicism, of Theresa May’s early election is that, after so few months of government, she has no real record to study. But here, for those wondering about her ability to flout any of her own government’s solemn pledges, is a whopper that has left millions of UK citizens in the lurch.

In October her minister for the constitution, Chris Skidmore, made a clear and unequivocal pledge to bring UK citizens living abroad back into the democratic fold, by allowing them to vote, before the next election. This was especially important to those whose lives are most traumatically affected by Brexit because they live elsewhere in the EU.

On 8 June the millions of UK citizens living abroad will still be unable to vote.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 1:50 pm

We've plenty of history on T May and the rest of Tory government
They've been there for over seven years now
They're lying, venal, disagreeable people and the antithesis of good leadership

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 22 May, 2017 1:52 pm

I think I forgot, earlier.

So -

Good morfternoon.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 1:54 pm

“Let’s be clear we have not changed the principles we set out in our manifesto. What we have done is clarified that in the green paper which will be a consultation document we will have an upper limit. But the basic principles remain the same,” the prime minister responded.

“Nothing has changed, nothing has changed,” she added tersely, raising her voice towards the end of the session when a correspondent from the Telegraph asked if anything else was likely to be altered in the Tory manifesto.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -manifesto" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brittle, vacillating, doesn't know up from down

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:04 pm

Brexit appears to mean taking back control of everything but border
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opini ... 38738.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It is arguable, therefore, that no realistic political solution to the border issue exists at all. Certainly not within the parameters under which the negotiating parties appear to be operating.

In the almost impossible event of Corbyn/Starmer being the ones negotiating with the EU, could they hang a u-turn on keeping the union together? I don't mean staying in the EU, but the EFTA/EEA. I'm pretty sure that's where Starmer's inclination would lie. Sturgeon seems to have implied the SNP would be happy enough with that.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:11 pm

gilsey wrote:Brexit appears to mean taking back control of everything but border
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opini ... 38738.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It is arguable, therefore, that no realistic political solution to the border issue exists at all. Certainly not within the parameters under which the negotiating parties appear to be operating.
In the almost impossible event of Corbyn/Starmer being the ones negotiating with the EU, could they hang a u-turn on keeping the union together? I don't mean staying in the EU, but the EFTA/EEA. I'm pretty sure that's where Starmer's inclination would lie. Sturgeon seems to have implied the SNP would be happy enough with that.

Well, I'd be happy with that too, so I think you can assume, therefore, it could not possibly happen because that's what I keep being told by various posters whenever I mention I would prefer a soft Brexit.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:15 pm

CON: 47% (-1)
LAB: 33% (+5)
LDEM: 9% (-1)
UKIP: 4% (-2)
GRN: 2% (-1)

(via @ICMResearch / 19-21 May)

Closed by 6 points.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:15 pm

Here are today's alternative facts.

This was not a u-turn.
May is strong and stable.
The three most important letters in this election are IRA, not NHS.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:17 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:CON: 47% (-1)
LAB: 33% (+5)
LDEM: 9% (-1)
UKIP: 4% (-2)
GRN: 2% (-1)

(via @ICMResearch / 19-21 May)

Closed by 6 points.

So, the Remainers. Flooding to the Lib Dems still. Ukip about to join the greens in the Margin of Error club.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:22 pm

"Dear Sir/Madam,

as much as I object to the use of a stamp I am returning your communication,if it stops any more it will be worth it.Please remove name/address or whatever is necessary to ensure this.
This is beneficial to you as it saves time,effort and monies in your fruitless pursuit of ever convincing me to vote Tory,or even for a nano second ever contemplating it.Not least for your relentless attack on the sick and disabled,"removal of the incentive in not dying quickly enough" £30 reduction per week ,because there is no difference between a fully fit person and having a permanent progressive condition that some of your number thinks means get better,being being but one.

Yours

I have made some appropriate adjustments"

(Hitler moustache)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:24 pm

I am 3

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 22 May, 2017 2:26 pm

Conservative Party Manifesto

Alternative versions of the manifesto are currently in production and will be released shortly.

If you would like to be notified when they are released please complete the form below.

https://www.conservatives.com/alternati ... toversions

No joke