Friday 29th August 2014

Post by **refitman** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 7:29 am

Morning all. Labour lead at 3 points on Yougov:

Latest YouGov / The Sun results 28th August -

Con 33%, (-1)
Lab 36%, (+1)
LD 7%, (no change)
UKIP 13%; (-1)

APP -23 (+1)

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 8:10 am

Morning all. From late last night.

EIGHT more Tories 'in Ukip talks': After rebel Tory MP's shock defection, other Conservatives are wined and dined by Nigel Farage's millionaire donor
Douglas Carswell resigned from the Conservative Party and Parliament
He said David Cameron was 'not serious about changes country needed'
Among nine Tories 'wined and dined by Ukip donor Stuart Wheeler'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737206/A-rebel-MP-stuns-Cameron-defecting-Farage-eight-Tories-Ukip-talks-After.html

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 8:16 am

The 3 Lib Dem seats where the Greens are a threat
http://stephentall.org/2014/08/29/the-3-lib-dem-seats-where-the-greens-are-a-threat/

The article later states:

The Greens don’t stand a chance of winning any of them. But if enough 2010 Lib Dem voters choose to go with them next May it’ll be a boost for Labour. As I first wrote seven years ago, in November 2007:

“As Ukip is to the Tories, so can the Green party be to the Lib Dems.”

Maybe they can't win them but this makes me wish for an outcome in these places that sees the Greens beat the Lib Dems.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 8:36 am

Atos tests failed 75% of disabled people amid "outrageous" delays to assessments
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/atos-tests-failed-75-disabled-4126386
... Official figures show just 25% of Employment Support Allowance assessment claims are being processed within the Government’s 13-week target.

More than 30,000 people dealt with between February 2012 and June 2013 had to wait more than a year for their claim to be completed. A further 35,700 waited between nine and 12 months...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 8:51 am

rebeccariots2 wrote:Morning all. From late last night.
EIGHT more Tories 'in Ukip talks': After rebel Tory MP's shock defection, other Conservatives are wined and dined by Nigel Farage's millionaire donor
Douglas Carswell resigned from the Conservative Party and Parliament
He said David Cameron was 'not serious about changes country needed'
Among nine Tories 'wined and dined by Ukip donor Stuart Wheeler'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2737206/A-rebel-MP-stuns-Cameron-defecting-Farage-eight-Tories-Ukip-talks-After.html

"It has emerged" can be translated as "we've rehashed this story that the DT ran ages ago...from Nov 2012.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9703678/Eight-Tory-MPs-in-talks-about-defecting-to-Ukip.html

Nick Robinson said on Today that it's tosh. The talks were on how to get a referendum not defecting.

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:03 am

Will the Kippers, those who've spouted so often about Ed 'knifing' his brother, complain about Roger Lord being pooped on by Carswell & Farage ?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:06 am

yahyah wrote:Will the Kippers, those who've spouted so often about Ed 'knifing' his brother, complain about Roger Lord being pooped on by Carswell & Farage ?

I thought just that myself. I think we already know the likely answer though.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:08 am

yahyah wrote:Will the Kippers, those who've spouted so often about Ed 'knifing' his brother, complain about Roger Lord being pooped on by Carswell & Farage ?

They certainly can't crow about "local candidates not being imposed by the party centre" any longer.

Carswell didn't even have the courtesy to tell his local party chairman beforehand - he found out about 10 seconds before everyone else.

I don't think it was that principled a move - Clacton was identified by that writer whose name escapes me right now, as the seat most likely to go UKIP - that writer even briefed the Tory Party about this.

I think Carswell has realised it's the only chance to save his own skin before he got beaten next year...and jumped.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:17 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
yahyah wrote:Will the Kippers, those who've spouted so often about Ed 'knifing' his brother, complain about Roger Lord being pooped on by Carswell & Farage ?
They certainly can't crow about "local candidates not being imposed by the party centre" any longer.

Carswell didn't even have the courtesy to tell his local party chairman beforehand - he found out about 10 seconds before everyone else.

I don't think it was that principled a move - Clacton was identified by that writer whose name escapes me right now, as the seat most likely to go UKIP - that writer even briefed the Tory Party about this.

I think Carswell has realised it's the only chance to save his own skin before he got beaten next year...and jumped.

So, in other words, a cynical political calculation by a cynical MP and the cynical and unprincipled head of a party of reality denying fantasists and nostalgia riddled halfwits.

It genuinely frightens me that so many gullible people see them as plausible enough to vote for.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:27 am

Inside the Jobcentre: my experience working for a failing service
So much has changed since I first worked for the Jobcentre in the 70s, when it actually offered real training and opportunities
• If you want long-term, meaningful work, don’t go to a jobcentre
http://www.theguardian.com/public-leaders-network/2014/aug/28/jobcentre-plus-failing-service-job-opportunities

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:27 am

ErnstRemarx wrote: So, in other words, a cynical political calculation by a cynical MP and the cynical and unprincipled head of a party of reality denying fantasists and nostalgia riddled halfwits.

It genuinely frightens me that so many gullible people see them as plausible enough to vote for.

Clacton didn't have a UKIP candidate last time round - Carswell could have made a massive mis-judgement here. I would imagine there must be solid Tory voters who are pretty angry at being let down.

If half of the Tory vote goes the way of UKIP i the by-election, labour could slip in and nick it.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:39 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ErnstRemarx wrote: So, in other words, a cynical political calculation by a cynical MP and the cynical and unprincipled head of a party of reality denying fantasists and nostalgia riddled halfwits.

It genuinely frightens me that so many gullible people see them as plausible enough to vote for.
Clacton didn't have a UKIP candidate last time round - Carswell could have made a massive mis-judgement here. I would imagine there must be solid Tory voters who are pretty angry at being let down.

If half of the Tory vote goes the way of UKIP i the by-election, labour could slip in and nick it.

It's an interesting thought. I know that it was previously to 2005 held by Labour, but I believe Harwich was moved out the constituency, which presumably removed many Labour votes. Are there enough Labour votes to win it, even if UKIP split the right wing/fascist vote straight down the middle?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:45 am

Oh fun and games

UKIP's Roger Lord to challenge Douglas Carswell for Clacton

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28977961" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 9:50 am

AngryAsWell wrote:Oh fun and games
UKIP's Roger Lord to challenge Douglas Carswell for Clacton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28977961" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes, I would imagine Labour are sitting watching this very happily right now.

Sitting MP doesn't bother telling local party chairman, new party leader doesn't bother briefing existing candidate. What's not to like?

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 10:01 am

As they say, you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh! :lol!:

@refitman, I'm guessing that one won't be part of the Five Polls either?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 10:04 am

That review of whether someone in Ofsted tipped of Norfolk schools with close links to Gove that they were due an inspection...a couple of interesting points.

Eight questions as Ofsted starts review of three inspections of Norfolk academies

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/education/eight_questions_as_ofsted_starts_review_of_three_inspections_of_norfolk_academies_1_3748795

Ofsted has picked one of its regional directors, Sir Robin Bosher, to review the three Norfolk Ofsted inspections, prompting Thetford county councillor Denis Crawford to call for the review to be independent.

wait for it...

Sir Robin himself was director of primary education for the Harris federation of academy schools.

Will an Ofsted review of allegations about itself, and three academies it praised, inspire public confidence?

Well I never...there's more.

Dame Rachel was a favourite of former education secretary Michael Gove, who visited Ormiston Victory Academy to start its rebuilding programme in 2012, and she and Inspiration Trust staff were visitors to Downing Street receptions.

The Inspiration Trust’s sponsor, Theodore Agnew, is chairman of the DfE’s Academies Board, and Inspiration’s trustees include former Tory MP, and current chairman of the Care Quality Commission, David Prior.

It really is a cosy little club at the heart of Tory-backed politics isn't it?

Say the right things and you're made for life.

Edit - and when did he become Sir Robin?

Sir Robin Bosher was knighted for services to education in the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee Birthday honours in June 2012.

Figures.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 10:18 am

There's another bit in that Ofsted article which says a lot about the DfE...

Norfolk MP Liz Truss regularly praised Inspiration Trust schools in media but not other Norfolk schools with similar or better judgements'

Elsewhere, a few teachers met up with Ofsted's head of schools and compared their meeting to one they had at the DfE...

If you were judging the DfE against Ofsted in terms of coffee and biscuits, Ofsed lost (3 bordering 4 to be frank). In every other way though, Ofsted won. Hands down. This is unsurprising when you consider that today I was actually talking to a teacher. Mike Cladingbowl was a teacher, whereas Liz Truss was... we'll just leave it there. Well actually no, not quite; let's put this in football terms: Mr Cladingbowl also was not late, nor was he preoccupied with his mobile; we played second fiddle to Liz's pager (something to do with voting), and he didn't he leave early, so that's about 4-0 to Ofsted in the PR battle of the meetings.

I remember reading the blog about that meeting - they were very unimpressed with Truss. Lightweight careerist.

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 10:27 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Oh fun and games
UKIP's Roger Lord to challenge Douglas Carswell for Clacton
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28977961" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, I would imagine Labour are sitting watching this very happily right now.

Sitting MP doesn't bother telling local party chairman, new party leader doesn't bother briefing existing candidate. What's not to like?

It's the mould breaking new politics that is UKIP - nothing to do with the sort of unprincipled skullduggery that LibLabCon indulge in, that's for sure. No parachuting in of central party favoured candidates in the People's Army, oh no.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 10:28 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
yahyah wrote:Will the Kippers, those who've spouted so often about Ed 'knifing' his brother, complain about Roger Lord being pooped on by Carswell & Farage ?
They certainly can't crow about "local candidates not being imposed by the party centre" any longer.

Carswell didn't even have the courtesy to tell his local party chairman beforehand - he found out about 10 seconds before everyone else.

I don't think it was that principled a move - Clacton was identified by that writer whose name escapes me right now, as the seat most likely to go UKIP - that writer even briefed the Tory Party about this.

I think Carswell has realised it's the only chance to save his own skin before he got beaten next year...and jumped.

Ah yes, Ford/Goodwin.

A lot of what they say should get the proverbial sprinkling of salt, tbh - some of their "top UKIP targets" are highly dubious (Ashfield??)

Having said that, this seat's previous incarnation (Harwich) did record the highest Referendum Party vote in 1997 (and one of the few cases they probably *did* affect the result)

Post by **refitman** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 10:38 am

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:As they say, you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh!

@refitman, I'm guessing that one won't be part of the Five Polls either?

seeingclearly · Post by **seeingclearly** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 10:58 am

Just got a pop-up for something called Guardian Crowd. Anyone know what this is or have experience of it? Was wondering if it runs parallel to CIF or is there to replace it.

Maybe I have missed this before, but did the Guardian always have something called 'the Guardian view', or did it have editorials?

Just asking........

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 11:06 am

seeingclearly wrote:Just got a pop-up for something called Guardian Crowd. Anyone know what this is or have experience of it? Was wondering if it runs parallel to CIF or is there to replace it.

Maybe I have missed this before, but did the Guardian always have something called 'the Guardian view', or did it have editorials?

Just asking........

Perhaps that's how American journals operate and frame themselves. Would make sense, given the Graun's apparent desire to mimic American meeja ways and ties in nicely with their inexorable slide to the right.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 11:35 am

RobertSnozers wrote: I heard on the Today programme just before I got to work that Ukip is saying the National Exec Committee has approved Carswell. Nick Robinson, in his rather Tory-friendly analysis, seemed to think that Lord would be shut down in fairly short order and forgotten by next week.

There certainly seems to be a contradiction at the heart of things between a party that wants to be a major player, and a membership that prides itself on being unorthodox and, frankly, unprofessional.

That meeting must have been arranged at exceptionally short notice since it was reported that the only people who knew what was happening were Farage, his wife and Carswell.

It was almost certainly a Fararge ring-round to say "this is happening otherwise I'm going to look foolish".

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 11:41 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: I heard on the Today programme just before I got to work that Ukip is saying the National Exec Committee has approved Carswell. Nick Robinson, in his rather Tory-friendly analysis, seemed to think that Lord would be shut down in fairly short order and forgotten by next week.

There certainly seems to be a contradiction at the heart of things between a party that wants to be a major player, and a membership that prides itself on being unorthodox and, frankly, unprofessional.
That meeting must have been arranged at exceptionally short notice since it was reported that the only people who knew what was happening were Farage, his wife and Carswell.

It was almost certainly a Fararge ring-round to say "this is happening otherwise I'm going to look foolish".

Not for nothing do they call Farage "The Leader" - and, genuinely, I have seen some Kippers capitalizing it!!

rearofthestore · Post by **rearofthestore** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 12:24 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:As they say, you'd need a heart of stone not to laugh!

@refitman, I'm guessing that one won't be part of the Five Polls either?

Bet this will be though!

Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 7m
CON takes lead in today's Populus online poll
Lab 34 (-4), Con 35 (+3), LD 8 (=), UKIP 13 (-2)

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 12:29 pm

Big swing to others in that Populus. Looks a definite outlier to me.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 12:32 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote: I heard on the Today programme just before I got to work that Ukip is saying the National Exec Committee has approved Carswell. Nick Robinson, in his rather Tory-friendly analysis, seemed to think that Lord would be shut down in fairly short order and forgotten by next week.

There certainly seems to be a contradiction at the heart of things between a party that wants to be a major player, and a membership that prides itself on being unorthodox and, frankly, unprofessional.
That meeting must have been arranged at exceptionally short notice since it was reported that the only people who knew what was happening were Farage, his wife and Carswell.

It was almost certainly a Fararge ring-round to say "this is happening otherwise I'm going to look foolish".

Last week Farage was quoted as saying that if UKIP didn't get an MP in 2015, he'd resign.

Cunning bugger knew what was in the pipeline with Carswell. I bet he's desperate now that it doesn't blow up in his face.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 12:38 pm

I struggle to understand the moderation over at the Graun.

Point out that someone is using his office subscription to the HSJ - which he admitted to the other day on there - and it gets deleted.

Yet we get day after day of constant bashing of the NHS and they simply let it go on.

He seems to be a protected species.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 12:42 pm

Normal service resumed at Populus then, after last Friday. Yep, I'm sure Nicky will like that one, the rest of us will sensible ignore it (and the rest of their widely varying polling).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:01 pm

Roger Lord apparently threatening to stand for the Tories now. I am sure they are delighted

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:05 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Roger Lord apparently threatening to stand for the Tories now. I am sure they are delighted

The voters outside looked from UKIP to Tory, and from Tory to UKIP, and from UKIP to Tory again; but already it was impossible to say which was which...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:07 pm

Dr Éoin Clarke ‏@LabourEoin Aug 28
Labour have a solid chance of taking the Clacton seat. Lib Dem/Labour polled 37% in Sept. Lib Dem meltdown & Tory defection give us a chance

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:11 pm

I admire his optimism, but it would take a pretty freakish set of circumstances tbh.

And what is his reference to "Sept" all about?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:29 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Roger Lord apparently threatening to stand for the Tories now. I am sure they are delighted

This is fun. We are almost getting to be Italian in our politics.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:35 pm

Good afternoon.

I'm totally bemused by the comings and now (possibly) goings in Clacton. It is, however, all rather enjoyable.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:36 pm

MirrorJames ‏@MirrorJames 18m
Hearing rumours that Cameron is about to do a screeching U-turn on TPIMs
MirrorJames ‏@MirrorJames 15m
Sounds like Cameron will bring back the relocation orders for terror suspects
MirrorJames ‏@MirrorJames 15m
PM has repeateldy ignored pleas from cops, Labour and other to bring back Control Orders

Another U turn. Cameron must be permanently revolving with the number of U turns he's done now.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:37 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good afternoon.

I'm totally bemused by the comings and now (possibly) goings in Clacton. It is, however, all rather enjoyable.

Afternoon PF. But what do you think of Portsmouth Lib Dems selecting Vernon Jackson as their PCC? Are they that dismissive of the voters there - or just really stupid - or both?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 1:39 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Roger Lord apparently threatening to stand for the Tories now. I am sure they are delighted
This is fun. We are almost getting to be Italian in our politics.

Ha! Clacton - the new Sicily? Well, apart from the rather, er, bracing east winds, of course.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 2:04 pm

Depressing - but expected. Mr Riots said the judge's demeanour was distinctly unpromising throughout the hearing.

High court rejects badger cull challenge
Badger Trust was seeking a ruling to block the latest cull from proceeding without independent monitoring
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/aug/29/badger-cull-high-court-rejects-legal-challenge

Those wishing to prevent the unnecessary suffering and death of badgers are very well prepared this year though. Anyone unable to physically get out into the countryside to help can always donate towards the fuel and equipment costs of those who can. All help - however small - is very appreciated.

Various groups / funds etc mentioned here: https://www.facebook.com/stop.the.cull

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 2:14 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good afternoon.

I'm totally bemused by the comings and now (possibly) goings in Clacton. It is, however, all rather enjoyable.
Afternoon PF. But what do you think of Portsmouth Lib Dems selecting Vernon Jackson as their PCC? Are they that dismissive of the voters there - or just really stupid - or both?

Hello, there.

The Portsmouth LibDem hierarchy is a) very arrogant and b) living in its own bubble where, hitherto, they've been able to get away with more or less whatever they've wanted to and running the City as if it's their private club. I think they've been rumbled but, for some strange reason, genuinely don't take it in. Weird. But then they are weird. Folie à deux (or folie à however many of them there are left)?

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 2:19 pm

In case people aren't aware what the Labour party policy re badger culling and bovine TB is - recent letter from Maria Eagle in response to a query from a voter sets it out very clearly.

Dear ..............,

Thank you for contacting me about the Government’s policy of supporting the culling of badgers to address the issue of bovine TB. I am sorry for the delay in replying.

There is cross-party agreement on the need to eradicate bovine TB, not least because this disease led to 24,618 cattle being compulsorily slaughtered in Great Britain between January and September alone last year. However, the Labour Party does not agree with the Government that the solution to this issue is simply the mass culling of badgers. The evidence does not support the Government’s policy and it is clear that Ministers have repeatedly chosen to ignore the independent scientific advice they have received.

As Labour repeatedly warned would be the case, the trial badger culls in Gloucestershire and Somerset failed. Prior to the start of the trials, the Government stated that “it would be wrong to go ahead if those on the ground cannot be confident of removing at least 70 per cent of the populations” and “the killing/taking of badgers must be limited to a six-week cull period specified in each licence.” However, as it became clear that the trials were not succeeding, Ministers wrongly backed extensions beyond the six-week limit and revised downwards the target reduction in the badger population within each trial area. Therefore, contrary to Owen Paterson’s ridiculous claim that “the badgers moved the goalposts” it was in fact the former Secretary of State who repeatedly did so. Even after the culls were extended, the badger population in the Gloucestershire trial was only reduced by an estimated 65 per cent, while the trial in Somerset achieved a population reduction of just 39 per cent at the time it was abandoned. The Government has also been forced to admit that only 24 per cent of the badgers killed were by controlled shooting, which was precisely the method that the pilots were supposed to be testing. It is estimated that these failed culls may have cost as much as £7 million to date, equivalent to more than £4,000 per badger killed. Most worryingly, leading independent scientists have warned that the decision to extend the cull and the failure to cull 70 per cent of the badger population may have increased the spread of bovine TB as a result of perturbation.

In April the Independent Expert Panel reported that the trial culls had failed the test for ‘humaneness’, as well as ‘effectiveness’. This was despite Defra restricting the scope of the report to only cover “the initial cull period, not the extensions”. Yet the Government’s reaction to this damning verdict of their policy has been to continue with the Gloucestershire and Somerset culls regardless. The Government have also announced they will not allow independent expert scrutiny for the remainder of the Gloucestershire and Somerset culls. It is shocking that Ministers are more interested in putting personal prejudice at the heart of their policy-making than following scientific evidence.

Since the end of the trials, Ministers have also revealed that there has been over-reporting of the incidence of TB in herds under restriction and the incidence rate of bovine TB since September 2011. The Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories has stated that this is likely to result in the “significant downwards revision” of the data. This is an appalling development considering the fact that these statistics have been a crucial part of the Government’s case for proceeding with the culling of badgers. Even before this revelation, it is clear that the Government has repeatedly over-played the extent to which badgers are responsible for spreading TB across England. Recent research by Prof. Christl Donnelly showed that herd-to-herd transmission of bovine TB in cattle accounts for 94 per cent of cases, while around 6 per cent of infected cattle catch TB directly from badgers. This research backs up the evidence from the Randomised Badger Cull Trial funded by Labour when in government which identified cattle transmission as playing a significant role in the spread of Bovine TB.

Labour has repeatedly called on the Government to abandon their failed policy. I am clear that to press ahead with further culls is not only unscientific, but irresponsible and reckless. On 13th March MPs were given a chance to debate the culls in parliament, and voted 219-1 against the Government’s policy. I have said that the Secretary of State should listen to the House rather than continuing this failed cull. However, as Elizabeth Truss has committed to continuing with these culls, the least she should be doing is allowing independent expert oversight. The Independent Expert Panel should be allowed to provide a full, accurate and independent assessment of the trials and advise on the way forward. Finally, the Government should also reveal all the details of the cost to the taxpayer of this disastrous policy, including the costs of extending the trials.

As I have said, we do need a serious strategy to eradicate bovine TB, but it has got to be based on the science. It is time to restore evidence-based policy making to the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and I intend to do so if Labour wins the next election. All the evidence and expert advice that I have seen suggests that the most effective strategy will need to focus on badger vaccination and enhanced measures to address herd to herd transmission, including compulsory post-movement testing, a comprehensive risk-based trading system, and more robust bio-security on farms. If elected, Labour will work with farmers, wildlife groups and leading scientists to develop this alternative strategy to eradicate bovine TB, including tackling TB in badgers.

Yours sincerely

Maria Eagle

Maria Eagle MP | Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

House of Commons London SW1A 0AA

020 7219 4019 | maria.eagle.mp@parliament.uk

ErnstRemarx · Post by **ErnstRemarx** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 2:34 pm

rebeccariots2 wrote:In case people aren't aware what the Labour party policy re badger culling and bovine TB is - recent letter from Maria Eagle in response to a query from a voter sets it out very clearly.

Dear ..............,

Thank you for contacting me about the Government’s policy of supporting the culling of badgers to address the issue of bovine TB. I am sorry for the delay in replying.

There is cross-party agreement on the need to eradicate bovine TB, not least because this disease led to 24,618 cattle being compulsorily slaughtered in Great Britain between January and September alone last year. However, the Labour Party does not agree with the Government that the solution to this issue is simply the mass culling of badgers. The evidence does not support the Government’s policy and it is clear that Ministers have repeatedly chosen to ignore the independent scientific advice they have received.

As Labour repeatedly warned would be the case, the trial badger culls in Gloucestershire and Somerset failed. Prior to the start of the trials, the Government stated that “it would be wrong to go ahead if those on the ground cannot be confident of removing at least 70 per cent of the populations” and “the killing/taking of badgers must be limited to a six-week cull period specified in each licence.” However, as it became clear that the trials were not succeeding, Ministers wrongly backed extensions beyond the six-week limit and revised downwards the target reduction in the badger population within each trial area. Therefore, contrary to Owen Paterson’s ridiculous claim that “the badgers moved the goalposts” it was in fact the former Secretary of State who repeatedly did so. Even after the culls were extended, the badger population in the Gloucestershire trial was only reduced by an estimated 65 per cent, while the trial in Somerset achieved a population reduction of just 39 per cent at the time it was abandoned. The Government has also been forced to admit that only 24 per cent of the badgers killed were by controlled shooting, which was precisely the method that the pilots were supposed to be testing. It is estimated that these failed culls may have cost as much as £7 million to date, equivalent to more than £4,000 per badger killed. Most worryingly, leading independent scientists have warned that the decision to extend the cull and the failure to cull 70 per cent of the badger population may have increased the spread of bovine TB as a result of perturbation.

In April the Independent Expert Panel reported that the trial culls had failed the test for ‘humaneness’, as well as ‘effectiveness’. This was despite Defra restricting the scope of the report to only cover “the initial cull period, not the extensions”. Yet the Government’s reaction to this damning verdict of their policy has been to continue with the Gloucestershire and Somerset culls regardless. The Government have also announced they will not allow independent expert scrutiny for the remainder of the Gloucestershire and Somerset culls. It is shocking that Ministers are more interested in putting personal prejudice at the heart of their policy-making than following scientific evidence.

Since the end of the trials, Ministers have also revealed that there has been over-reporting of the incidence of TB in herds under restriction and the incidence rate of bovine TB since September 2011. The Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories has stated that this is likely to result in the “significant downwards revision” of the data. This is an appalling development considering the fact that these statistics have been a crucial part of the Government’s case for proceeding with the culling of badgers. Even before this revelation, it is clear that the Government has repeatedly over-played the extent to which badgers are responsible for spreading TB across England. Recent research by Prof. Christl Donnelly showed that herd-to-herd transmission of bovine TB in cattle accounts for 94 per cent of cases, while around 6 per cent of infected cattle catch TB directly from badgers. This research backs up the evidence from the Randomised Badger Cull Trial funded by Labour when in government which identified cattle transmission as playing a significant role in the spread of Bovine TB.

Labour has repeatedly called on the Government to abandon their failed policy. I am clear that to press ahead with further culls is not only unscientific, but irresponsible and reckless. On 13th March MPs were given a chance to debate the culls in parliament, and voted 219-1 against the Government’s policy. I have said that the Secretary of State should listen to the House rather than continuing this failed cull. However, as Elizabeth Truss has committed to continuing with these culls, the least she should be doing is allowing independent expert oversight. The Independent Expert Panel should be allowed to provide a full, accurate and independent assessment of the trials and advise on the way forward. Finally, the Government should also reveal all the details of the cost to the taxpayer of this disastrous policy, including the costs of extending the trials.

As I have said, we do need a serious strategy to eradicate bovine TB, but it has got to be based on the science. It is time to restore evidence-based policy making to the Department for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and I intend to do so if Labour wins the next election. All the evidence and expert advice that I have seen suggests that the most effective strategy will need to focus on badger vaccination and enhanced measures to address herd to herd transmission, including compulsory post-movement testing, a comprehensive risk-based trading system, and more robust bio-security on farms. If elected, Labour will work with farmers, wildlife groups and leading scientists to develop this alternative strategy to eradicate bovine TB, including tackling TB in badgers.

Yours sincerely

Maria Eagle

Maria Eagle MP | Shadow Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs

House of Commons London SW1A 0AA

020 7219 4019 | maria.eagle.mp@parliament.uk

Grown up policy making - I like it. Let's hope she's in a position after May 2015 to put it into action.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 2:50 pm

UK terror threat raised from substantial to severe
New level of threat, related to developments in Syria and Iraq, means attack is highly likely though not necessarily imminent

Alan Travis, home affairs editor
theguardian.com, Friday 29 August 2014 14.45 BST (Guardian)

Empty Dave's team are getting deperate, so distraction tactics necessary?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... sed-severe

Edited for typo

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 3:02 pm

This is something on which he really is the "heir to Blair"

frightful_oik · Post by **frightful_oik** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 3:14 pm

PorFavor wrote:
UK terror threat raised from substantial to severe
New level of threat, related to developments in Syria and Iraq, means attack is highly likely though not necessarily imminent

Alan Travis, home affairs editor
theguardian.com, Friday 29 August 2014 14.45 BST (Guardian)
Empty Dave's team are getting deperate, so distraction tactics necessary?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... sed-severe

Edited for typo

= dangerous squirrels at large! Stay safe.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 3:20 pm

frightful_oik wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
UK terror threat raised from substantial to severe
New level of threat, related to developments in Syria and Iraq, means attack is highly likely though not necessarily imminent

Alan Travis, home affairs editor
theguardian.com, Friday 29 August 2014 14.45 BST (Guardian)
Empty Dave's team are getting deperate, so distraction tactics necessary?

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014 ... sed-severe

Edited for typo
= dangerous squirrels at large! Stay safe.

Or those pesky badgers have started moving the goalposts again!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 3:30 pm

Seems like it's a jungle out there. Or at least a rural, wooded area.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 3:37 pm

Just switched on BBC News24 to see how this raised threat level malarkey is being covered. You'd think WWIII has broken out. It's all very hysterical with added Dave. Best avoided.

TheGrimSqueaker · Post by **TheGrimSqueaker** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 3:51 pm

MI5 warning of dangerous terrorist threat from the East (aka Frinton)

With their webbed feet they can get into places inaccessible to the rest of us.

rebeccariots2 · Post by **rebeccariots2** » Fri 29 Aug, 2014 4:03 pm

TheGrimSqueaker wrote:MI5 warning of dangerous terrorist threat from the East (aka Frinton)

With their webbed feet they can get into places inaccessible to the rest of us.

Frinton won't put up with that sort of thing at all. They have form in fighting back you know.

Proper is a word that suits Frinton. A small town on the Essex coast, it is best known to outsiders for the row that once grew to epic proportions over whether to allow a fish and chip shop to open. Some townsfolk feared it was a first step on the slippery slope to candy floss and amusement arcades, which are a feature of its better known neighbour, Clacton.

Frinton does not approve of that sort of thing. It barely approves of commerce at all. There are no pubs or fast-food joints, no shops or cafes on the front. There is no ice-cream van by the beach.
... Sometimes we call in at the aptly named Nice Fish and Chip Shop, whose controversial arrival is recorded in newspaper cuttings on the wall.
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/oh-i-wish-i-was-in-frinton-1586855.html