Wednesday 7th June 2017

Post by **refitman** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 7:00 am

Morning all.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 7:22 am

Good morfternoon.

We're now being asked to vote for a dictatorship. With absolutely no chance of it being a benign dictatorship.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 7:29 am

Morning. To repeat:

APOLOGISTS FOR TERROR

JEZZA'S JIHADI COMRADES

VOTE MAY OR WE FACE DISASTER

"Democracy".

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 7:34 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

We're now being asked to vote for a dictatorship. With absolutely no chance of it being a benign dictatorship.

https://www.thepaperboy.com/uk/front-pages.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

APOLOGISTS FOR TERROR

JEZZA'S JIHADI COMRADES

VOTE MAY OR WE FACE DISASTER

Two out of nine on May's threat to human rights ...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 7:36 am

Morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40158358" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 7:53 am

#butchersforLabour

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 7:54 am

Yep:

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 8:08 am

AA/DLA/PIP clearly for non-universalisation,one way or another ie direction of travel clear,once you break the principle,no logical reason or indeed end how far you go.Not particularly a left/right thing,some on the left(ill informed,naive IMHO)have/are aiding and abetting

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 8:12 am

Incidentally:

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 8:21 am

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

England's forgotten armed uprising to be celebrated in Derbyshire

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 8:40 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Tories would oversee the rundown of A&E and maternity units
Denis Campbell

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 8:45 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ocial-care" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... disability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... es-housing" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... l-security" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 8:52 am

The once-supposed bulwark against right-wing tabloids, ladies and gentlemen:

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StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 9:17 am

Humphrys. How many ways do I despise thee?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 9:21 am

Corbyn asks Lyn Brown to stand in for Diane Abbott as shadow home secretary

The Labour party has announced that Lyn Brown, a shadow Home Office minister, has been asked to stand in for Diane Abbott as shadow home secretary because Abbott is ill. In a statement the party said:

Jeremy Corbyn, leader of the Labour party, has asked Lyn Brown to stand in for Diane Abbott as Shadow Home Secretary for the period of her ill health. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 9:48 am

From the G:

Q: Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May both refused to be interviewed on this programme. Isn’t that rather pathetic?

Starmer says he did not know that.

He says he thinks leaders should be on. But Corbyn has been “absolutely out there”, he says.

This election gets stranger and stranger and the coverage more and more hysterical. I don't think it does Labour any harm to hear more from Starmer, though. His critique of May's response to the terror attacks was very balanced and measured.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 10:08 am

Faisal Islam (on Sky News) forensically shredding Theresa May's latest wheeze.

Edited to add -

I'll paraphrase what he said.

She's either doing another manifesto U-turn (ie on the stated intention to stay within the ECHR for the life of the next parliament) or limbering up to declare a state of emergency which is the only way she can achieve her aim but stick to the manifesto.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 10:11 am

Reminder: the Thomas Mair trial verdict was on page 30.

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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 10:20 am

Philip May on a "Take Your Husband to Work" outing.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 10:22 am

StephenDolan wrote:Humphrys. How many ways do I despise thee?

Stephen -- I think we are all unanimous on that ! But how is it that nobody nails him ? I wrote this rather disjointed stuff while listening --

-----------------------------
Keir Starmer 5 years DPP ---- "HR laws never got in the way of prosecutions ..."

0810 Hectoring Humphrys, KS -- " we must not be falling into the TMay trap "

<b>Typical emotive garbage by JH -- if you've seen your daughter murdered ETC"</b>

KS " Throwing away our values "

Nobody mentioning the loss of PCSO's and Police Staff -- another c. 25000 !

Humphrys' bullying on that question of Police numbers <b>not relevant</b>, according to Lord Carlile, pronounced as the Absolute Truth.

---------

I wouldn't mind infringing John Humphrys' Yuman Rites with a hack in his shins . Joking there, but I could shout louder than that old tosser**, AND keep going . Jesus wept, nobody seems willing or able to shoot back at him .
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

As Willow says KS was "measured and balanced", but I found that he did allow JH to get away with his hectoring, some untruths such as the Lord Carlile bit, and the emotive garbage .

** 17/8/1943 he's just four years older than me:-)

And at the end they were both very pally, as though it had all been an act ?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 10:46 am

Here you go -

May has denied that her pledge to rip up human rights laws to bring in a tougher regime of restrictions on terror suspects and deportations contradicts her manifesto pledge not to withdraw from the European convention on human rights in the next five years or repeal the Human Rights Act before Brexit.

Ministers claim that “derogation” – involving the partial and temporary withdrawal from the European human rights convention – is consistent with that manifesto pledge.

But the European court of human rights has pointed out that can only be done by declaring a state of emergency and that derogations can only be made “to the extent strictly required by the exigencies of the situation”. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Seems that my paraphrasing wasn't too bad after all - even though I say it meself as shouldn't.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 10:46 am

Now reported that Abbott is withdrawing from the front bench indefinitely.

All the - often downright nasty - abuse she has received might have had an effect? Who knew??

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:04 am

Geoff Smith @geoffs11
·
1h

Most are more than happy to put Trump / Brexit / May / Le Pen / Wilders on the same axis. Corbyn *can* stop May so let's support him.

John Rentoul @JohnRentoul

Replying to @geoffs11 and @davidshere
Yes but they are mistaken. May is preferable to Corbyn.

:lol!:

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:10 am

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Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:17 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Now reported that Abbott is withdrawing from the front bench indefinitely.

All the - often downright nasty - abuse she has received might have had an effect? Who knew??

Eyebrows were raised when she was first appointed shadow home secretary, for good reason I feel. Loyalty alone isn't reason enough to place someone in such a responsible role. She was doing an ok job at health and probably should have stayed there, imo. She would have been under less pressure there, if her illness is stress related or, if some other kind of illness, her temporary withdraw would have attracted less comment. Whatever the cause, if she's unwell, she's right to step down and, although I hate to say it, it's probably the case that the prospect she is unlikely to be Home Secretary in a Labour led government is likely to be a help to their prospects rather than a hindrance. Her outspoken support for immigrants post-Brexit has been one of the few brighter moments in the last year. I hope she is feeling better soon.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:20 am

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Now reported that Abbott is withdrawing from the front bench indefinitely.

All the - often downright nasty - abuse she has received might have had an effect? Who knew??
Eyebrows were raised when she was first appointed shadow home secretary, for good reason I feel. Loyalty alone isn't reason enough to place someone in such a responsible role. She was doing an ok job at health and probably should have stayed there, imo. She would have been under less pressure there, if her illness is stress related or, if some other kind of illness, her temporary withdraw would have attracted less comment. Whatever the cause, if she's unwell, she's right to step down and, although I hate to say it, it's probably the case that the prospect she is unlikely to be Home Secretary in a Labour led government is likely to be a help to their prospects rather than a hindrance. Her outspoken support for immigrants post-Brexit has been one of the few brighter moments in the last year. I hope she is feeling better soon.

She spoke passionately about the health service at conference. Wish her a good recovery.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:21 am

Who's out tomorrow and is there likely to be anyone here tomorrow evening?

Post by **adam** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:23 am

StephenDolan wrote:Who's out tomorrow and is there likely to be anyone here tomorrow evening?

We don't close on election days any more - the local polling station used to be us but has moved (I have had a lot of conversations with kids this week saying 'no, you do have school on Thursday, yes, I know you didn't used to but you do now'). I have been out phoning from committee rooms / leafletting / canvassing this week and will be again tonight and tomorrow after work - probably online tomorrow night from around the first results...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:33 am

Still, if Abbott is withdrawing from the front line indefinitely that removes a reason (or, maybe more accurately, excuse) that some have given for not voting Labour.......

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:45 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Still, if Abbott is withdrawing from the front line indefinitely that removes a reason (or, maybe more accurately, excuse) that some have given for not voting Labour.......

Ah, but the "I'd never vote for Labour if Abbott was going to be a minister" people will be moving on to their next bullshit reason.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 11:53 am

Oh, I have no doubt that many will do just that. I used "excuse" for a reason......

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 12:07 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... a-tax-tory" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The result is that if Theresa May wins this election, it will be despite the campaign she has just fought, not because of it. On a human level, she would be forgiven for wanting never to put herself through such an ordeal again. On a less human level, the Tory party are ruthless in their will to power. Even if they get a big majority on Thursday, they will not forget the campaign they have witnessed. Barring an earthquake in the coming years, they will ensure May does not get a chance to repeat it.

Such is the obviousness of this, it seems hardly worth dedicating a whole article to it. The real question is when - before or after Brexit? Will she be left to do the dirty deed in the hope she will take the consequences with her when she goes, or will a poor campaign provide cover for an early coup with a view to a different Brexit direction?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 12:12 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Still, if Abbott is withdrawing from the front line indefinitely that removes a reason (or, maybe more accurately, excuse) that some have given for not voting Labour.......

How do you think this affects Diane Abbott's re-election to her seat? Any effect?

I wish her well.

Edited - typo

If you get in quick, you can still immortalise it!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 12:15 pm

Too late . . .

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 12:17 pm

Abbott will still be returned in her own seat with a big majority. Indeed, I would be surprised if there wasn't some sympathy for her locally.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 12:21 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Abbott will still be returned in her own seat with a big majority. Indeed, I would be surprised if there wasn't some sympathy for her locally.

Though apparently not if you broaden the definition of "locally" a bit...

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NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 12:26 pm

The cartoonist responds to understandable misinterpretation of his work:

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SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 1:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Still, if Abbott is withdrawing from the front line indefinitely that removes a reason (or, maybe more accurately, excuse) that some have given for not voting Labour.......

Why would anyone think she was doing that? A very odd suggestion.

She isn't very able. None of the shadow cabinet (or cabinet) is. Starmer, who is useless, stands out because of the pygmies alongside him. Hammond is probably the most able Tory: and May will sack him June 9th.

It is all very odd. Trump, Brexit, Corbyn. What a strange world.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:15 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:42 pm

http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/201 ... drop-ps32m" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:45 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Still, if Abbott is withdrawing from the front line indefinitely that removes a reason (or, maybe more accurately, excuse) that some have given for not voting Labour.......

Why would anyone think she was doing that? A very odd suggestion.

She isn't very able. None of the shadow cabinet (or cabinet) is. Starmer, who is useless, stands out because of the pygmies alongside him. Hammond is probably the most able Tory: and May will sack him June 9th.

It is all very odd. Trump, Brexit, Corbyn. What a strange world.

It is a strange world when Tem and yourself are in the same party. The mother of all big tents.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:46 pm

John McDonnell was on the World at One a few minutes ago and he described Jeremy Corbyn as the strongest and most decent leader Labour has had, possibly for generations.

Why do they keep doing this? Why do they keep alienating long time Labour supporters by suggesting the party and leaders they have supported all these years were somehow corrupt? Are we saying now that Ed Miliband isn't a decent, principled person? It's this arrogant assumption of some kind of exclusive moral rightness that is so insufferable about Corbyn and co. Like we're not all deeply flawed and prone to error. Blair may have been a compromise too far, but I deeply resent the writing off of Labour's other leaders as somehow inferior. Corbyn hasn't proved himself any more capable than Kinnock, Smith, Brown or Miliband yet. Perhaps they should wait until they've actually beaten the Tories and successfully implemented their manifesto before they start crowing about how superior they are. Sorry to be churlish about this, but for me Ed Miliband was one of the most impressive and genuine politicians I've seen in a long time. It's one thing for Corbyn and co to claim to be better campaigners or more radical or whatever but to claim to be more "decent" implies Ed Miliband or Gordon Brown aren't decent people and to me that's a completely unacceptable slur.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:53 pm

Ah, so that's where he's been, not a million miles away from me.

Philip Hammond @PhilipHammondUK

Stopped in Wirral South to support @AdamSykesWirral and met Head Teacher at Thornton Hough Primary #VoteConservative June 8

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 2:59 pm

What would you expect McDonnell - one of Corbyn's closest long term confidants - to say Willow? I really think that you are over-analysing this.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 3:03 pm

Holy crap. Just seen DFH and his twitter trolling of Merseyside (from yesterday?). What a Ted.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 3:05 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Still, if Abbott is withdrawing from the front line indefinitely that removes a reason (or, maybe more accurately, excuse) that some have given for not voting Labour.......

Why would anyone think she was doing that? A very odd suggestion.

She isn't very able. None of the shadow cabinet (or cabinet) is. Starmer, who is useless, stands out because of the pygmies alongside him. Hammond is probably the most able Tory: and May will sack him June 9th.

It is all very odd. Trump, Brexit, Corbyn. What a strange world.
It is a strange world when Tem and yourself are in the same party. The mother of all big tents.

He ain't no Green, bruv.

55DegreesNorth · Post by **55DegreesNorth** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 3:08 pm

Willow904 wrote:
John McDonnell was on the World at One a few minutes ago and he described Jeremy Corbyn as the strongest and most decent leader Labour has had, possibly for generations.
Why do they keep doing this? Why do they keep alienating long time Labour supporters by suggesting the party and leaders they have supported all these years were somehow corrupt? Are we saying now that Ed Miliband isn't a decent, principled person? It's this arrogant assumption of some kind of exclusive moral rightness that is so insufferable about Corbyn and co. Like we're not all deeply flawed and prone to error. Blair may have been a compromise too far, but I deeply resent the writing off of Labour's other leaders as somehow inferior. Corbyn hasn't proved himself any more capable than Kinnock, Smith, Brown or Miliband yet. Perhaps they should wait until they've actually beaten the Tories and successfully implemented their manifesto before they start crowing about how superior they are. Sorry to be churlish about this, but for me Ed Miliband was one of the most impressive and genuine politicians I've seen in a long time. It's one thing for Corbyn and co to claim to be better campaigners or more radical or whatever but to claim to be more "decent" implies Ed Miliband or Gordon Brown aren't decent people and to me that's a completely unacceptable slur.

Afternoon folks,
@Willow No offence, but I don't suppose he was talking to you. That was a heads up to anyone who had been tempted by the May leadership cult and their efforts to put the question of leadership at the forefront.
On a different note, no signs of an election round here. 1 leafleteach from Labour and Libdems, nothing else. No canvassers at all
Cheer.
Ps apple for any typos. I dropped my specs off a Spanish mountain last week so I'm typing this with a three year old pair. On a phone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 3:23 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ity-regime" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Care home directors convicted over 'horrific' learning disability regime
Atlas Project Team founder fined £12,500 and ordered to pay £105,000 costs after vulnerable residents were held in seclusion rooms, sometimes overnight

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 3:25 pm

"Bristol crown court was told that as well as sending residents to the isolation rooms, they were sometimes allegedly denied food, drink, fun activities and visits from residents. Once they were allowed out of the rooms they were ordered to carry out tasks such as cleaning to “test compliance”.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 07 Jun, 2017 3:26 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:What would you expect McDonnell - one of Corbyn's closest long term confidants - to say Willow? I really think that you are over-analysing this.

If I was analysing it, my reaction would be more reasonable. My reaction is a purely emotional kneejerk one and seriously, how exactly do you think fans of Miliband are supposed to take that? Or fans of Smith?