Saturday 10th & Sunday 11th June 2017

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:32 pm

BBC News reporting that Nick Timothy is saying that the election disaster (particularly the social care bit in the manifesto) wasn't all his fault (I paraphrase). Is he limbering up for something more?

Post by **refitman** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:33 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Graun Live (hello PF)

Martin Selmayr, senior aide to European Commission President Jean Claude-Juncker, has likened the resignations of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill to the sacrifice of a pawn in the game of chess, using the word “bauernopfer” in a tweet.

This is going to devolve into everyone posting the same thing, at the same time, isn't it?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:34 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/the ... 82331.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theresa May failed to gain a majority because she grossly misunderstood the 'will of the people'
What matters under the first past the post electoral system is not a party’s absolute share of the vote, but its share of the vote relative to that of its opponents

Like 48.1% being in profound disagreement with what the government is deliberately misrepresenting as their alleged will?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:35 pm

refitman wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Graun Live (hello PF)

Martin Selmayr, senior aide to European Commission President Jean Claude-Juncker, has likened the resignations of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill to the sacrifice of a pawn in the game of chess, using the word “bauernopfer” in a tweet.
This is going to devolve into everyone posting the same thing, at the same time, isn't it?

Labour made me do it.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:38 pm

Emily Maitlis tweeted that Timothy's resignation letter was "thoughtful, honest and poignant".

It's actually specious, nauseating crap that - like that Times leader - is indicative of astounding denial in the Tory party.

What is going on with critical thinking at the BBC?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:41 pm

I'm sick of hearing this "revenge" vote on the old crap.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:41 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Emily Maitlis tweeted that Timothy's resignation letter was "thoughtful, honest and poignant".

It's actually specious, nauseating crap that - like that Times leader - is indicative of astounding denial in the Tory party.

What is going on with critical thinking at the BBC?

Same as ever. They have lost the capacity having steadfastly developed Breakfast as the flagship of its brand.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:43 pm

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/no ... -coalition" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No, Theresa May, the DUP will not join a formal coalition
The unionists have no interest in reducing their own leverage over a doomed prime minister.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:43 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Emily Maitlis tweeted that Timothy's resignation letter was "thoughtful, honest and poignant".

It's actually specious, nauseating crap that - like that Times leader - is indicative of astounding denial in the Tory party.

What is going on with critical thinking at the BBC?

If nothing else, I salute Emily Maitlis' bold use of the word "poignant". That takes courage.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:44 pm

PorFavor wrote:I'm sick of hearing this "revenge" vote on the old crap.

Just what I was thinking ....
#meldcontinnum

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:45 pm

HindleA wrote:Certainly an interesting election where Kensington goes Red and Clay Cross ,birthplace of Skinner,rentstrikers against the Heath government goes Blue.

Clay Cross is no longer that representative of Derbs NE, unfortunately.

Massive upmarket housing developments in places like Dronfield now call the tune. Indeed, the answer to a significant part of the "whatever happened to the Tories in Sheffield?" question is that a lot of them have moved just south. A shame.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:48 pm

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/c ... eresa-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
can't read it as don't subscribe but looks interesting reading around the edges of the PAY NOW pop up

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Labour MP Luke Pollard's fury as votes left out of result (he still won, but..)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-40232776" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There have been cock-ups like that before. The results usually get corrected in due course, and I expect that will happen here.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:51 pm

http://www.euronews.com/2017/06/10/merk ... ws+-+en%29" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
German Chancellor Angela Merkel has been in Mexico to meet President Enrique Peña Nieto the second destination in her two-stop tour of Latin America after Argentina. As for the Mexicans they are seeking a strong alliance with Germany to offset the shadow of Trump’s threatened wall and an updated EU-Mexico free-trade agreement.

Europe with China on Climate change and Merkel talking to Latin America now;
UK with TM and Trump.

Hmmm.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:55 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/c ... eresa-may/
can't read it as don't subscribe but looks interesting reading around the edges of the PAY NOW pop up

Yes - I followed your link, and it was just getting good when it was unceremoniously snatched away from me.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 2:57 pm

: David-Cameron_pr'ck.jpg (113.66 KiB) Viewed 13972 times

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:00 pm

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/tory-mp-form- ... 34203.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A senior Conservative MP has argued that a cross-party approach to Brexit negotiations would be a “true national endeavour”.

Responding to comments made by The Thick of It creator Armando Iannucci on BBC Question Time, Alistair Burt pointed out that political parties shared platforms in the run up to the referendum.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:05 pm

https://www.indy100.com/article/dup-the ... on-7783241" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
17 quotes from DUP politicians that are actually real

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:07 pm

#introducingthedup

https://twitter.com/hashtag/MayMustGo?src=hash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **adam** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:12 pm

It would be (will be - at some point) interesting to look back at the time she announced the election and see if we can find any MPs or any commentators at all saying 'what if this doesn't work out?'.

Post by **adam** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:15 pm

also I'm going to repost this from yesterday because nobody answered the question, possibly because it's too easy, but still...

Two years ago, the UK stood out as a beacon of political stability and economic success.
Guess who?

Post by **adam** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:25 pm

Martin Selmayr, senior aide to the European commission president, Jean Claude-Juncker, has likened the resignations of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill to the sacrifice of a pawn in the game of chess

From the politics live blog in the graun

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:26 pm

adam wrote:also I'm going to repost this from yesterday because nobody answered the question, possibly because it's too easy, but still...

Two years ago, the UK stood out as a beacon of political stability and economic success.
Guess who?

Or, equally possibly, because it's too hard (for me, anyway). What's the answer?

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/c ... eresa-may/
can't read it as don't subscribe but looks interesting reading around the edges of the PAY NOW pop up
Yes - I followed your link, and it was just getting good when it was unceremoniously snatched away from me.

Free read !!

The people with whom Theresa May will soon be negotiating over Brexit have been looking on in astonishment at her self-immolation. Here’s a selection of the media coverage on the continent.

France

Against all the odds, France’s new President, Emmanuel Macron, looks set to win an impressive majority in the upcoming parliamentary elections. So from chaos to stability – yet Britain has taken the reverse journey.

This juxtaposition is detected by France’s press. Le Monde seeks to predict how the new formation of the House of Commons will impact the upcoming Brexit negotiations. The centre-left newspaper suggests that Theresa May’s government will be held hostage by the ‘ultra-conservative’ and ‘Europhobic’ DUP and its ‘dubious financial practices’. This precarious arrangement will destabilise Northern Ireland, the paper says, as the UK Government will no longer be viewed as an impartial actor in the peace process. Le Monde suggests that Theresa May’s minority government will also be held hostage by the Conservative Party’s Brexiteers who, it is thought, will force the Prime Minister to pursue the hardest of Brexits.

Libération quotes a high-ranking French diplomat who believes that the new political reality means that Theresa May will approach negotiations with the EU from ‘a position of very great weakness’. Indeed, the newspaper suggests that Labour’s increased vote share is an indication that the British public does not want to become a tax haven on the shores of Europe, thus demolishing one of Theresa May’s principal negotiating positions. It does seem that senior figures in Brussels have become even more scathing of Theresa May.

Libération quotes the chairman of the European People’s Party, the largest group in the European Parliament, who says that Theresa May has ‘brought chaos to her country’.

;;;;;;
Although there may have been some schadenfreude in Europe when Theresa May’s electoral gamble backfired, Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung warns that there is ‘no reason to cheer’. The newspaper suggests that the lack of a large Commons majority means that the UK Government will struggle to make concessions during the negotiation.

The Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung also indicates that the Article 50 deadline could be extended in order to give the UK time to organise itself ahead of negotiations. However, this would require the agreement of the remaining 27 EU member states and the newspaper warns that the UK could pay a high price as there would be a ‘great deal of scope’ for political bargaining.

British voters are branded as ‘highly insecure, angry, upset’ and the country described as ‘torn and threatened by Islamic terror’. In light of this, the newspaper says the country desperately needs a ‘strong, determined government’, which now seems very unlikely.

In a similar vein, Der Tagesspiegel raises concerns over a disorderly British withdrawal from the EU, warning that such an eventuality would be a ‘disaster’ for European companies which trade with the UK.

Nevertheless, the liberal daily goes on to paint a more optimistic picture, suggesting that the possibility of a transitional agreement between the UK and the EU will “increase with time pressure”. This would mean that the four freedoms of the single market would remain in force for the foreseeable future, thus preventing what has been termed ‘cliff-edge Brexit’.

The German tabloid, Bild, is less optimistic. It suggests that a future outside the EU is becoming ‘increasingly unattractive’ as London comes to terms with the ‘madman’ which is now at the helm of the UK’s closest ally.

The paper suggests that Margaret Thatcher ‘would have put her handbag on the table in Brussels until there is a tailor-made deal for the UK’. However, such a vision is described by the newspaper as ‘just beautiful memories’. ‘From Cool Britannia to Poor Britannia’, the newspaper says the UK has become a country that is ‘stumbling over its own decisions’.

Meanwhile, Germany’s socialist candidate for the chancellery has congratulated Jeremy Corbyn on his electoral performance.

;;;;;

Aftenposten’s Per Edgar Kokkvold suggests that the British Union is now more secure thanks to the new seats secured by the Scottish Conservatives under the leadership of ‘charismatic’ Ruth Davidson.

So someone in Britain is doing something right. But as for Theresa May, the woman who asked Brits to give her a bigger mandate the better to sock it to her opponents? As today’s papers show, she is already a figure of ridicule on the continent.

----------------------------------------------------

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:26 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/c ... eresa-may/
can't read it as don't subscribe but looks interesting reading around the edges of the PAY NOW pop up

Just click the X in the corner and pop up closes, you can then read it.

Post by **adam** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:27 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Or, equally possibly, because it's too hard (for me, anyway). What's the answer?

Beginning of the post-result editorial in the Standard by your friend and mine, George Osborne.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:36 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/c ... eresa-may/
can't read it as don't subscribe but looks interesting reading around the edges of the PAY NOW pop up
Just click the X in the corner and pop up closes, you can then read it.

I didn't get a pop-up - just a sudden vanishing.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:37 pm

adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Or, equally possibly, because it's too hard (for me, anyway). What's the answer?
Beginning of the post-result editorial in the Standard by your friend and mine, George Osborne.

I did guess correctly yesterday but didn't want to be "that guy".

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:37 pm

Skwawkbox on TM, Abbott and DNA

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/09/think- ... bbott-lie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Telling a deliberate lie about a candidate during an election campaign is a criminal breach of the Representation of the People Act 1983 – and if Theresa May is charged and found guilty of the breach, she could face at least the loss of her Parliamentary seat and a ban from political office.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:38 pm

Whereas I got a popup without an x

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:52 pm

Matt Chorley‏Verified account @MattChorley 2h2 hours ago
More
Boris Johnson is getting "tonnes" of MPs calling and texting saying if it all falls apart he is the only choice. He is biting his tongue

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:57 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Skwawkbox on TM, Abbott and DNA

https://skwawkbox.org/2017/06/09/think- ... bbott-lie/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Telling a deliberate lie about a candidate during an election campaign is a criminal breach of the Representation of the People Act 1983 – and if Theresa May is charged and found guilty of the breach, she could face at least the loss of her Parliamentary seat and a ban from political office.

Yes - I saw that yesterday but somehow failed to broadcast it. Subconsciously, I was probably waiting for you to do it. Waited all bloody day, as it turned out . . .

How likely is it that anything will\can come of it, do you think? Would Diane Abbott herself have to instigate something - and would she be counselled not to bother?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 3:58 pm

It would take a heart of stone not to...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They all love that "socialism and Marxism" down south, eh:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

While we're on the subject of red-hot takes, here's an absolute Conservative and Unionist Negotiating Team member I'd thankfully never heard of two days ago:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And finally, here's something that's just funny:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:03 pm

Speaking of funny, Faisal Islam was great yesterday. He opined (pre-watershed*, to boot) that Theresa May was in a "bloody difficult" situation. Laughed like a drain.

*At least, I think it was.

Edited to add the * and all

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:05 pm

adam wrote:It would be (will be - at some point) interesting to look back at the time she announced the election and see if we can find any MPs or any commentators at all saying 'what if this doesn't work out?'.

A few people on Twitter did almost immediately raise the possibility that it *could* all go horribly wrong, despite what the polls were saying.

Can't remember any specific names right now, unfortunately

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
adam wrote:It would be (will be - at some point) interesting to look back at the time she announced the election and see if we can find any MPs or any commentators at all saying 'what if this doesn't work out?'.
A few people on Twitter did almost immediately raise the possibility that it *could* all go horribly wrong, despite what the polls were saying.

Can't remember any specific names right now, unfortunately

Ha! Not that old "unnamed sources" wheeze . . .

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:07 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
adam wrote:It would be (will be - at some point) interesting to look back at the time she announced the election and see if we can find any MPs or any commentators at all saying 'what if this doesn't work out?'.
A few people on Twitter did almost immediately raise the possibility that it *could* all go horribly wrong, despite what the polls were saying.

Can't remember any specific names right now, unfortunately

Ben Chu at the independent raised prospect of failure.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:09 pm

@SpinningHugo

How's the knee?

yahyah · Post by **yahyah** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:10 pm

PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/c ... eresa-may/
can't read it as don't subscribe but looks interesting reading around the edges of the PAY NOW pop up
Yes - I followed your link, and it was just getting good when it was unceremoniously snatched away from me.

Try closing the subscription ad box Por Favor- click on the little x in the top corner.
I did and can read all of the article, and it hasn't been zapped away even after some minutes.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:32 pm

yahyah wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/c ... eresa-may/
can't read it as don't subscribe but looks interesting reading around the edges of the PAY NOW pop up
Yes - I followed your link, and it was just getting good when it was unceremoniously snatched away from me.
Try closing the subscription ad box Por Favor- click on the little x in the top corner.
I did and can read all of the article, and it hasn't been zapped away even after some minutes.

I copied and pasted most of it for you all !

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:35 pm

@frog222

Yes, I know - I read it and thanked you. Never fear - your efforts didn't go unnoticed or unappreciated.

Edited - typo

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:37 pm

Given the Tories oppose the redistribution of wealth, how can they ever hope to represent the needs of the electorate?
Most of the discussion I've seen has been about tactics - as if the policies themselves are irrelevant.
Guess what that does?

It makes me 'kin' SEETHE

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:39 pm

https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/snp-calls ... ack-table/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The SNP calls on Theresa May to put EU single market membership ‘back on the table’

Stephen Gethins, the party’s spokesman on Europe at Westminster, said Mrs May must rethink her Brexit plan after the snap General Election result on Thursday in which the Tories lost seats.

“The election result was a comprehensive rejection of the Tory plans for an extreme Brexit – and single market membership must now be back on the table,” he said.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:48 pm

Some Tory (Guardian Live):
“Our manifesto was all about what we’ll stop them having and what we’ll not give them and what’s good for them and that’s frankly electoral poison and a complete disaster...there had not been appropriate consultation on it...and when you have to explain that you’re not taking food from children’s mouths and taking homes from your core supporters, then you’re losing an election.

Hands up anyone who remembers a Tory manifesto that wasn't all about telling the plebs what we can't have, because it would be inappropriate to tax the wealthy/ corporations.

et 'kin' c.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:50 pm

Willow904 wrote:@SpinningHugo

Brexit-wise, things are at least less gloomy than they were 2 days ago. Nigel Farage and Rupert Murdoch were not happy bunnies yesterday.

More importantly, after a long, surreal year where the Tories have shown a remarkably united front on Europe, the cracks are starting to appear. We have Ed Vaizey suggesting a softer approach may be needed, as Anna Soubry suggests May should consider her position and George Osborne lobs in hand grenades from his position at the Evening Standard.

Brexit cut across traditional left/right political positions and still has the potential to disrupt old loyalties and long standing political coalitions. The remarkable thing to me, thus far, was how little this had hitherto affected the Tories compared to Labour, presumably because of the less equivocal position of the majority of Tory voters. That there is even a hint that might be about to change is encouraging to me.

Yes I hope so.

The other thing that I feel is rarely discussed is the pressure within the rest of the EU for change, for example Macron had a list of proposals in his manifesto. My hope is that the UK starts to pull back from May's hard Brexit and starts to explore other options that may currently appear unachievable. With proper negotiations and discourse, the gap between Brexit Britain and the rest of the EU could narrow to the point where leaving becomes largely pointless.

I'm not saying I think this will happen, but that it could. The result would be a better EU with the UK still in it.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 4:52 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:https://www.sundaypost.com/fp/snp-calls ... ack-table/
The SNP calls on Theresa May to put EU single market membership ‘back on the table’
Stephen Gethins, the party’s spokesman on Europe at Westminster, said Mrs May must rethink her Brexit plan after the snap General Election result on Thursday in which the Tories lost seats.

“The election result was a comprehensive rejection of the Tory plans for an extreme Brexit – and single market membership must now be back on the table,” he said.

Good!

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 5:03 pm

Guess which newspaper this headline is from?

Armed drills, terror endorsements and anti-gay rights: The chequered links of Ian Paisley party which has become Theresa May’s kingmakers

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 5:15 pm

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/ ... 0609129202" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 5:27 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:Guess which newspaper this headline is from?

Armed drills, terror endorsements and anti-gay rights: The chequered links of Ian Paisley party which has become Theresa May’s kingmakers

I'm guessing - the Mail (or the Express?).

The Conservatives haven't thought this through. For most people, it's the prospect of the DUP and their views that are unacceptable. But for the xenophobic remainder, it'll be enough that they're Irish. Lose lose from all directions.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 10 Jun, 2017 5:29 pm

Indeed the Mail.