Saturday 10th & Sunday 11th June 2017

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 7:28 pm

I never lost faith in anyone I met, but I was starting to swallow the bubble thesis: that any ideal, any ambition, any altruism, any modernity, was just stuff that people in bubbles say. This election restored my faith. When I look at May and see an insult to my intelligence and a threat to my society, probably the people either side of me do as well, even in Kensington.

- This election has brought the smell of spring after an endless Tory Narnia

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ory-narnia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 7:50 pm

Thought I had set some trend with the continual wearing of dressing gown thing,but apparently it was some kind Hitchhikers Guide fan reunion,not sure where the whacking each other with towels until 5AM came in.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 7:57 pm

More from Rowson:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nt-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 7:59 pm

The Donaeld - #justgoveup

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 24m24 minutes ago
Mercians are so lucky to have me, putting the wit into Witan, rather than Mayden Theresa putting the Gove into Government. #justgoveup

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:00 pm

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 56m56 minutes ago
Mayden Theresa clings on to throne, solely because Witan of ATOS has declared her fit to work.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:11 pm

HindleA wrote:Thought I had set some trend with the continual wearing of dressing gown thing,but apparently it was some kind Hitchhikers Guide fan reunion,not sure where the whacking each other with towels until 5AM came in.

I thought it was your fan club come to cheer you on, you know!
'Where's Turquoise Tarquin, Mr citizen?' I said.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:15 pm

Trump is definitely not coming on his planned visit to the UK, right? Could someone please confirm.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:17 pm

Sue Hayman‏Verified account @SueHayman1 38m38 minutes ago
Interesting DEFRA choice from May: Gove voted to sell off our forests and tried to remove climate change from geography curriculum @serauk

Well that'll be a great fit with the DUP. Will the Tories never run out of crap to heap on us?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:20 pm

Theresa May says she is getting on with the job

Theresa May is being interviewed right now on BBC News

There is a job to be done and I think what the public wants is a government who can get on with that job.

I can't stand much more of this nonsense.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:27 pm

Sorry,TC2 nonsense is my middle name,

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:31 pm

I am pleased that people from across the party have agreed to serve in my cabinet and we are going to be getting on with the job.

I said during the election campaign if re-elected I would serve a full term ... What I am doing now is actually getting on with the immediate job. I think that’s what’s important. I think that’s what the public would expect, they want to see government providing that certainty and stability.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
ggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:33 pm

To be fair being chased around a hotel corridor with a towel thwacking two headed person,perhaps not conducive to making much sense.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:33 pm

HindleA wrote:Sorry,TC2 nonsense is my middle name,

Different nonsense.
What does Tarquin make of all this?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:35 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Sue Hayman‏Verified account @SueHayman1 38m38 minutes ago
Interesting DEFRA choice from May: Gove voted to sell off our forests and tried to remove climate change from geography curriculum @serauk
Well that'll be a great fit with the DUP. Will the Tories never run out of crap to heap on us?

Apparently that bit's not ~~true~~accurate - according to Sam Freedman it was merely going to be moved to Science.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:35 pm

Unrepeatable,spitting grass seed as we speak.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:38 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Sue Hayman‏Verified account @SueHayman1 38m38 minutes ago
Interesting DEFRA choice from May: Gove voted to sell off our forests and tried to remove climate change from geography curriculum @serauk
Well that'll be a great fit with the DUP. Will the Tories never run out of crap to heap on us?

Apparently that bit's not true - according to Sam Freedman it was merely going to be moved to Science.

RoT - ruining a good moan!
(thanks though)

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 8:41 pm

BREAKING: Mail have thrilling footage of Mays turning up at church

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/news/v ... union.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:00 pm

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/11/tory-mp-c ... n-6701979/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Robert Syms, MP for Poole and Dorset, took umbrage with someone who criticised Theresa May for trying to form a government propped up by the right-wing Democratic Unionist Party of Ulster.
The Twitter user, @youlittlequilt, wrote: ‘Sinn Fein are saying that the Tories are in breach of the Good Friday Agreement by forming a coalition with the DUP – and they’re right, too.’
Although the tweet hadn’t been addressed to him, Syms replied: ‘It’s not a coalition you dick.’

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:01 pm

goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:02 pm

http://theconversation.com/may-wanted-a ... tate-79210" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Health in particular is increasingly important in the hearts and minds of Britons. (Recall the Leave campaign’s pledge to give the NHS the £350m the UK supposedly pays the EU every week.) Whereas 30% of the public thought health was the most important issue facing the country in July 2016, that number went up to 49% in May 2017 – much higher than the economy or immigration.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:20 pm

My internet connection keeps coming and going (mostly going) and I keep losing you. Not much certainty or stability going on here.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:28 pm

I urge everyone to watch the 3 minute interview May gave to Beth Rigby of Sky.

Also, this is a real tweet:

"A GOVErnment of all the talents. Welcome back Michael."

From Johnson.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... hic-indeed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:36 pm

Apologies if we've already had this, but it is lovely.

The Conservative pitch played to the worst in us. Which is never a match for the best in us
Frank Cottrell Boyce
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... orst-in-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:39 pm

NonOxCol wrote:I urge everyone to watch the 3 minute interview May gave to Beth Rigby of Sky.

Also, this is a real tweet:

"A GOVErnment of all the talents. Welcome back Michael."

From Johnson.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... etc

Tizme · Post by **Tizme** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:47 pm

Greetings all,

Isn't all this Certainty and Stability wonderful? Vamos!

Tizme · Post by **Tizme** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:51 pm

gilsey wrote:Apologies if we've already had this, but it is lovely.

The Conservative pitch played to the worst in us. Which is never a match for the best in us
Frank Cottrell Boyce
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... orst-in-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Two years ago, I worked very, very closely with one of Frank Cottrell Boyce's children. A highly intelligent, energetic, empathetic, modest, and humble young man.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 9:51 pm

Tizme wrote:Greetings all,

Isn't all this Certainty and Stability wonderful?

I say, that's a bit strong!

Tizme · Post by **Tizme** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:06 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Tizme wrote:Greetings all,

Isn't all this Certainty and Stability wonderful?
I say, that's a bit strong!

Well, it was a strong performance - as ever from Rafa.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:07 pm

Mayham's new best mates
STATEMENT FOLLOWING YESTERDAY’S LOYALIST ATTACK ON IRISH PUB IN LIVERPOOL

https://cairdeliverpool.wordpress.com/2 ... -liverpoo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Must be another side to this, but still a bit rich marching round on Liverpool streets.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:13 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Mayham's new best mates
STATEMENT FOLLOWING YESTERDAY’S LOYALIST ATTACK ON IRISH PUB IN LIVERPOOL

https://cairdeliverpool.wordpress.com/2 ... -liverpoo/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Must be another side to this, but still a bit rich marching round on Liverpool streets.

Somehow, I can't see how this DUP thing can't not "end in tears".

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:17 pm

Tizme wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Tizme wrote:Greetings all,

Isn't all this Certainty and Stability wonderful?
I say, that's a bit strong!
Well, it was a strong performance - as ever from Rafa.

Didn't see it - but I take your word for it. He won, I assume.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:23 pm

Funny, ain't it? ll those right wingers insisting that France was bitterly divided only a month or so back...

France election: Macron party set for big parliamentary win

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40242531

The centrist party of French President Emmanuel Macron looks on course to win a landslide victory following the first round of parliamentary elections.

As polls closed, projections showed La Republique en Marche (Republic on the Move) set to win more than 400 seats in the 577-seat National Assembly.

Mr Macron's party was established just over a year ago and many candidates have little or no political experience.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:25 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Funny, ain't it? ll those right wingers insisting that France was bitterly divided only a month or so back...

France election: Macron party set for big parliamentary win

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40242531

The centrist party of French President Emmanuel Macron looks on course to win a landslide victory following the first round of parliamentary elections.

As polls closed, projections showed La Republique en Marche (Republic on the Move) set to win more than 400 seats in the 577-seat National Assembly.

Mr Macron's party was established just over a year ago and many candidates have little or no political experience.

Ah, the triumph of Blairism.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:31 pm

Orange Order asks DUP to use banned sectarian Dumcree march in negotiations with Theresa May
Flashpoint area in Portadown boiled over in 1998 when three young boys were murdered by loyalists

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:35 pm

mily Mackay‏
@EmilyRoseMackay

Oh, Theresa, caught between the devil and the DUP.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:41 pm

Hey!

A rare post back. Above all, it behoves me to congratulate the Corbyn supporters for being right about his electability. And I voted Labour, so it must have been doing something right. Various things- I like the investment policy in particular, and lots of others, I thought Corbyn did extremely well in the campaign, and I like Welsh Labour.

It's easy for me to say as I'm cushioned from the Tory sharp end, but I think this "near miss" is the best result. There are still problems with the platform for me. The EU position isn't at all clear- McDonnell is talking cake and eat it that idiot Boris has had to stop. Corbyn is better, and maybe there's a double act going on to keep Leave and Remain onside, before Brexit is understood better by the public, and then they'll pounce for Single Market membership? The positioning has been spot on, Article 50 vote and all (humble pie), but I am worried about the policy.

Btw, I'm sure you pick your expert on this sort of stuff, but a QC (George Peretz, I think it was) said there wasn't any particular problem from the EU with renationalizing utilities except (even though it's the cheapest) train services. So that's good, because it takes the wind out of some "Lexit" (apologies Paul, can't think of a better word, and don't mean it unkindly) arguments for leaving the Single Market. I think it'll be easier for Labour, if the political will is there, to plump for Single Market membership.

I don't see how those nationalizations can be a spending priority though, or would bring about much improvement- see renationalized Network Rail for the problems it has, though I'm happy with it being publicly owned. I think they're basically nostalgic/ red meat for the base. Same with abolishing tuition fees. And I'm seriously worried about the business tax rises to pay for all this free extras. How does that work? We make ourselves less attractive to business and then put up taxes? Borrowing for capital investment, that's fine. I don't see those business taxes bringing in the money. If your principles amount to sticking it on the national debt, you might need to revisit them.

Paul made a good point about Labour being better at negotiating, and it wouldn't be obnoxious. Rights of EU nationals would already be sorted out, but as Hugo said, a crunch would come with freedom of movement- Single Market. It's going to take skill (and luck?) to make the switch to Single Market and not to fall out with a big chunk of Labour voters who, as he rightly said, think the Poles are stopping coming. Like Hugo, I wasn't pleased to see the unambiguously pro-Single Market parties do badly.

I see immediately after Hugo's post, making very important points about Brexit, Laughing Boy showed up with his "na, na, na, you got it wrong, na". I got it wrong too, and I'm delighted about that, but there's a huge amount to do from here. Populism bites you on the arse, if you don't watch it.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:44 pm

And crikey, the DUP?

Huge mistake. Minority government is fine. The SNP (they mucked up almost as much as May. Independence! Not independence! Judge us by our record! Oh shit! Independence! Oh shit!) did it at Holyrood. It can be done.

Tizme · Post by **Tizme** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:45 pm

Didn't see it - but I take your word for it. He won, I assume.[/quote]

Indeed. He had looked pretty much unbeatable throughout the tournament and so it proved. Hence my 'certainty and stability' comment. I'm nuts about tennis, plus a huge Nadal fan. And La decima is pretty amazing. Sometimes my passion for tennis is how I cope with the real world.

If I'm going to apply 'Certainty and Stability' to the real world, or the political world [same thing in many respects], it won't be to Ms May. Corbyn on the other hand has been certain and pretty stable throughout the campaign.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:46 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Orange Order asks DUP to use banned sectarian Dumcree march in negotiations with Theresa May
Flashpoint area in Portadown boiled over in 1998 when three young boys were murdered by loyalists

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think the story is based on a parody account. It says "LOL" - bit of a giveaway.

:lol!:

(in case you missed the reference earlier, see below)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:49 pm

(Yet) another immensely dislikeable, smug, cossetted presence at the BBC, with one of the most pig-ignorant and tone deaf tweets of the weekend:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:50 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Orange Order asks DUP to use banned sectarian Dumcree march in negotiations with Theresa May
Flashpoint area in Portadown boiled over in 1998 when three young boys were murdered by loyalists

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think the story is based on a parody account. It says "LOL" - bit of a giveaway.

(in case you missed the reference earlier, see below)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't spot the "LOL". Very tired's my excuse.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:53 pm

NonOxCol wrote:(Yet) another immensely dislikeable, smug, cossetted presence at the BBC, with one of the most pig-ignorant and tone deaf tweets of the weekend:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thought this one was great -

DavidPWFreeborn‏ @DPWF0 6h

But if we can pretend Osborne is a journalist, and can pretend he knew how to run the exchequer, let's pretend he's a liberal too.
2 replies . 6 retweets 55 likes

Edited to add a "D"

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:58 pm

NonOxCol wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Orange Order asks DUP to use banned sectarian Dumcree march in negotiations with Theresa May
Flashpoint area in Portadown boiled over in 1998 when three young boys were murdered by loyalists

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think the story is based on a parody account. It says "LOL" - bit of a giveaway.

(in case you missed the reference earlier, see below)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LOL in this case stands for The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge & the Mail are reporting same thing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... march.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But do agree that you can't be to careful these days, so looked them up & they do exist

http://www.portadowndistrictlolno1.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 10:59 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hey!

A rare post back. Above all, it behoves me to congratulate the Corbyn supporters for being right about his electability. And I voted Labour, so it must have been doing something right. Various things- I like the investment policy in particular, and lots of others, I thought Corbyn did extremely well in the campaign, and I like Welsh Labour.

It's easy for me to say as I'm cushioned from the Tory sharp end, but I think this "near miss" is the best result. There are still problems with the platform for me. The EU position isn't at all clear- McDonnell is talking cake and eat it that idiot Boris has had to stop. Corbyn is better, and maybe there's a double act going on to keep Leave and Remain onside, before Brexit is understood better by the public, and then they'll pounce for Single Market membership? The positioning has been spot on, Article 50 vote and all (humble pie), but I am worried about the policy.

Btw, I'm sure you pick your expert on this sort of stuff, but a QC (George Peretz, I think it was) said there wasn't any particular problem from the EU with renationalizing utilities except (even though it's the cheapest) train services. So that's good, because it takes the wind out of some "Lexit" (apologies Paul, can't think of a better word, and don't mean it unkindly) arguments for leaving the Single Market. I think it'll be easier for Labour, if the political will is there, to plump for Single Market membership.

I don't see how those nationalizations can be a spending priority though, or would bring about much improvement- see renationalized Network Rail for the problems it has, though I'm happy with it being publicly owned. I think they're basically nostalgic/ red meat for the base. Same with abolishing tuition fees. And I'm seriously worried about the business tax rises to pay for all this free extras. How does that work? We make ourselves less attractive to business and then put up taxes? Borrowing for capital investment, that's fine. I don't see those business taxes bringing in the money. If your principles amount to sticking it on the national debt, you might need to revisit them.

Paul made a good point about Labour being better at negotiating, and it wouldn't be obnoxious. Rights of EU nationals would already be sorted out, but as Hugo said, a crunch would come with freedom of movement- Single Market. It's going to take skill (and luck?) to make the switch to Single Market and not to fall out with a big chunk of Labour voters who, as he rightly said, think the Poles are stopping coming. Like Hugo, I wasn't pleased to see the unambiguously pro-Single Market parties do badly.

I see immediately after Hugo's post, making very important points about Brexit, Laughing Boy showed up with his "na, na, na, you got it wrong, na". I got it wrong too, and I'm delighted about that, but there's a huge amount to do from here. Populism bites you on the arse, if you don't watch it.

Corbyn and McDonnell expressly ruled out single market membership this morning,

I can't see them abandoning their impossible position for a long while yet. It worked, so why do so? They can claim they'd do Brexit better, while vaguely talking about process for a long while yet.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 11:02 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:Orange Order asks DUP to use banned sectarian Dumcree march in negotiations with Theresa May
Flashpoint area in Portadown boiled over in 1998 when three young boys were murdered by loyalists

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think the story is based on a parody account. It says "LOL" - bit of a giveaway.

(in case you missed the reference earlier, see below)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LOL in this case stands for The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge & the Mail are reporting same thing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... march.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But do agree that you can't be to careful these days, so looked them up & they do exist

http://www.portadowndistrictlolno1.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes I know. My entire post makes no sense unless you read Dawn Foster's tweet.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 11:05 pm

NonOxCol wrote:(Yet) another immensely dislikeable, smug, cossetted presence at the BBC, with one of the most pig-ignorant and tone deaf tweets of the weekend:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't think it was that big a secret that he was socially liberal (like Cameron) - that was partly the point about the modernization and detoxification of his party. And it's not a secret either that he's pretty amiable - Ed Balls said that it was far easier to get on with him than it was with Osborne.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 11:10 pm

(in case you missed the reference earlier, see below)

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]

LOL in this case stands for The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge & the Mail are reporting same thing

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... march.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But do agree that you can't be to careful these days, so looked them up & they do exist

http://www.portadowndistrictlolno1.co.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;[/quote]

Yes I know. My entire post makes no sense unless you read Dawn Foster's tweet.[/quote]

LOL
I did read it and thought you had miss-read it
(Treading into Donald Rumsfeld area here
There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know)

:lol!:

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 11:18 pm

Hugo,

Yeah I know they said that. I think they might change when the facts are more obvious to more people. In the meantime "we'd do it better" can be put to work. It's true as far as it goes.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sun 11 Jun, 2017 11:22 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hey!

A rare post back. Above all, it behoves me to congratulate the Corbyn supporters for being right about his electability. And I voted Labour, so it must have been doing something right. Various things- I like the investment policy in particular, and lots of others, I thought Corbyn did extremely well in the campaign, and I like Welsh Labour.

It's easy for me to say as I'm cushioned from the Tory sharp end, but I think this "near miss" is the best result. There are still problems with the platform for me. The EU position isn't at all clear- McDonnell is talking cake and eat it that idiot Boris has had to stop. Corbyn is better, and maybe there's a double act going on to keep Leave and Remain onside, before Brexit is understood better by the public, and then they'll pounce for Single Market membership? The positioning has been spot on, Article 50 vote and all (humble pie), but I am worried about the policy.

Btw, I'm sure you pick your expert on this sort of stuff, but a QC (George Peretz, I think it was) said there wasn't any particular problem from the EU with renationalizing utilities except (even though it's the cheapest) train services. So that's good, because it takes the wind out of some "Lexit" (apologies Paul, can't think of a better word, and don't mean it unkindly) arguments for leaving the Single Market. I think it'll be easier for Labour, if the political will is there, to plump for Single Market membership.

I don't see how those nationalizations can be a spending priority though, or would bring about much improvement- see renationalized Network Rail for the problems it has, though I'm happy with it being publicly owned. I think they're basically nostalgic/ red meat for the base. Same with abolishing tuition fees. And I'm seriously worried about the business tax rises to pay for all this free extras. How does that work? We make ourselves less attractive to business and then put up taxes? Borrowing for capital investment, that's fine. I don't see those business taxes bringing in the money. If your principles amount to sticking it on the national debt, you might need to revisit them.

Paul made a good point about Labour being better at negotiating, and it wouldn't be obnoxious. Rights of EU nationals would already be sorted out, but as Hugo said, a crunch would come with freedom of movement- Single Market. It's going to take skill (and luck?) to make the switch to Single Market and not to fall out with a big chunk of Labour voters who, as he rightly said, think the Poles are stopping coming. Like Hugo, I wasn't pleased to see the unambiguously pro-Single Market parties do badly.

I see immediately after Hugo's post, making very important points about Brexit, Laughing Boy showed up with his "na, na, na, you got it wrong, na". I got it wrong too, and I'm delighted about that, but there's a huge amount to do from here. Populism bites you on the arse, if you don't watch it.

Yes Hugo got it wrong...again just like every other prediction he makes in his dismissive and arrogant way. He then comes with another prediction which is made with his usual certainty and dismissal of anyones else's opinions. Apparently it is because he likes 'winding people up' - well I am not often in the mood for being wound up on a board like this. If that is his true intention then he should find somewhere else to go

It is not being wrong that matters it is the manner in which you admit it and move on

And yes, after months of being called a 'cultist' and 'Corbynista' and being told that I was wrong and that Corbyn was the biggest disaster since the Black Death, I will take a certain pleasure in mentioning to certain of the people on here who were at the forefront of some of the abuse that was handed out (remember when you called me anti-semitic?). Others, who have been critical of the leadership, managed to do it in a constructive way and have looked to see where we go from here

I don't want and need your congratulations on 'being right' - that was not the aim of the game. It was the way in which people were doing it that mattered - cultist, anti-semite, idiot etc