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A rare post back. Above all, it behoves me to congratulate the Corbyn supporters for being right about his electability. And I voted Labour, so it must have been doing something right. Various things- I like the investment policy in particular, and lots of others, I thought Corbyn did extremely well in the campaign, and I like Welsh Labour.
It's easy for me to say as I'm cushioned from the Tory sharp end, but I think this "near miss" is the best result. There are still problems with the platform for me. The EU position isn't at all clear- McDonnell is talking cake and eat it that idiot Boris has had to stop. Corbyn is better, and maybe there's a double act going on to keep Leave and Remain onside, before Brexit is understood better by the public, and then they'll pounce for Single Market membership? The positioning has been spot on, Article 50 vote and all (humble pie), but I am worried about the policy.
Btw, I'm sure you pick your expert on this sort of stuff, but a QC (George Peretz, I think it was) said there wasn't any particular problem from the EU with renationalizing utilities except (even though it's the cheapest) train services. So that's good, because it takes the wind out of some "Lexit" (apologies Paul, can't think of a better word, and don't mean it unkindly) arguments for leaving the Single Market. I think it'll be easier for Labour, if the political will is there, to plump for Single Market membership.
I don't see how those nationalizations can be a spending priority though, or would bring about much improvement- see renationalized Network Rail for the problems it has, though I'm happy with it being publicly owned. I think they're basically nostalgic/ red meat for the base. Same with abolishing tuition fees. And I'm seriously worried about the business tax rises to pay for all this free extras. How does that work? We make ourselves less attractive to business and then put up taxes? Borrowing for capital investment, that's fine. I don't see those business taxes bringing in the money. If your principles amount to sticking it on the national debt, you might need to revisit them.
Paul made a good point about Labour being better at negotiating, and it wouldn't be obnoxious. Rights of EU nationals would already be sorted out, but as Hugo said, a crunch would come with freedom of movement- Single Market. It's going to take skill (and luck?) to make the switch to Single Market and not to fall out with a big chunk of Labour voters who, as he rightly said, think the Poles are stopping coming. Like Hugo, I wasn't pleased to see the unambiguously pro-Single Market parties do badly.
I see immediately after Hugo's post, making very important points about Brexit, Laughing Boy showed up with his "na, na, na, you got it wrong, na". I got it wrong too, and I'm delighted about that, but there's a huge amount to do from here. Populism bites you on the arse, if you don't watch it.
Corbyn and McDonnell expressly ruled out single market membership this morning,
I can't see them abandoning their impossible position for a long while yet. It worked, so why do so? They can claim they'd do Brexit better, while vaguely talking about process for a long while yet.
SH, do you want to try Corbyn's actual words, rather than your interpretation?
A rare post back. Above all, it behoves me to congratulate the Corbyn supporters for being right about his electability. And I voted Labour, so it must have been doing something right. Various things- I like the investment policy in particular, and lots of others, I thought Corbyn did extremely well in the campaign, and I like Welsh Labour.
It's easy for me to say as I'm cushioned from the Tory sharp end, but I think this "near miss" is the best result. There are still problems with the platform for me. The EU position isn't at all clear- McDonnell is talking cake and eat it that idiot Boris has had to stop. Corbyn is better, and maybe there's a double act going on to keep Leave and Remain onside, before Brexit is understood better by the public, and then they'll pounce for Single Market membership? The positioning has been spot on, Article 50 vote and all (humble pie), but I am worried about the policy.
Btw, I'm sure you pick your expert on this sort of stuff, but a QC (George Peretz, I think it was) said there wasn't any particular problem from the EU with renationalizing utilities except (even though it's the cheapest) train services. So that's good, because it takes the wind out of some "Lexit" (apologies Paul, can't think of a better word, and don't mean it unkindly) arguments for leaving the Single Market. I think it'll be easier for Labour, if the political will is there, to plump for Single Market membership.
I don't see how those nationalizations can be a spending priority though, or would bring about much improvement- see renationalized Network Rail for the problems it has, though I'm happy with it being publicly owned. I think they're basically nostalgic/ red meat for the base. Same with abolishing tuition fees. And I'm seriously worried about the business tax rises to pay for all this free extras. How does that work? We make ourselves less attractive to business and then put up taxes? Borrowing for capital investment, that's fine. I don't see those business taxes bringing in the money. If your principles amount to sticking it on the national debt, you might need to revisit them.
Paul made a good point about Labour being better at negotiating, and it wouldn't be obnoxious. Rights of EU nationals would already be sorted out, but as Hugo said, a crunch would come with freedom of movement- Single Market. It's going to take skill (and luck?) to make the switch to Single Market and not to fall out with a big chunk of Labour voters who, as he rightly said, think the Poles are stopping coming. Like Hugo, I wasn't pleased to see the unambiguously pro-Single Market parties do badly.
I see immediately after Hugo's post, making very important points about Brexit, Laughing Boy showed up with his "na, na, na, you got it wrong, na". I got it wrong too, and I'm delighted about that, but there's a huge amount to do from here. Populism bites you on the arse, if you don't watch it.
Yes Hugo got it wrong...again just like every other prediction he makes in his dismissive and arrogant way. He then comes with another prediction which is made with his usual certainty and dismissal of anyones else's opinions. Apparently it is because he likes 'winding people up' - well I am not often in the mood for being wound up on a board like this. If that is his true intention then he should find somewhere else to go
It is not being wrong that matters it is the manner in which you admit it and move on
And yes, after months of being called a 'cultist' and 'Corbynista' and being told that I was wrong and that Corbyn was the biggest disaster since the Black Death, I will take a certain pleasure in mentioning to certain of the people on here who were at the forefront of some of the abuse that was handed out (remember when you called me anti-semitic?). Others, who have been critical of the leadership, managed to do it in a constructive way and have looked to see where we go from here
I don't want and need your congratulations on 'being right' - that was not the aim of the game. It was the way in which people were doing it that mattered - cultist, anti-semite, idiot etc
I didn't call you an anti-Semite. Stop lying. You more than once started on me. For a bloke s opposed to wind ups, it was a bit funny.
Hugo isn't wrong about the Brexit issue, as it still remains.
Can I put it like this? What do the"traditional" Labour voters who voted Labour, perhaps first time since 2005, think is going to happen with EU immigration?
If they're expecting controls on it, we may have a problem.
FWIW watched Question Time for the first time in ages.Grayling outright lied about social care.Unfortunaly no one picked him.up on it.The issue is being presented in a similar way to benefits and supposed complexities,as ever despite two seconds research,zero commentators,journalists and most MP's cannot be arsed,seemingly.
So as mentioned by seeingclearly PIP no longer carried by bad ATOS but by Independent Assessment Services in official literature aka the same fucking arseholes.
