Wednesday 14th June 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 4:11 am

Morning

London fire: fears of people trapped as major blaze engulfs tower block – latest

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/liv ... timer-road" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lo ... ws_central" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 4:15 am

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... with-fire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.frmjournal.com/news/news_det ... Kk.twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 6:21 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/com ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Guardian view on public sector staff shortages: losing the numbers
Editorial

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 6:28 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n-of-chaos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 6:44 am

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... re-by-half" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Side street routes to avoid city pollution can cut exposure by half
Clean air signposts and online walking maps to sidestep diesel fumes would benefit public health, finds study

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 6:52 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... re-by-half

Side street routes to avoid city pollution can cut exposure by half
Clean air signposts and online walking maps to sidestep diesel fumes would benefit public health, finds study

What a good idea.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 7:42 am

And now Long-Bailey on radio 4 refuses to say we should end freedom of movement. Back to re-education for her.

This kind of thing is just going to continue as Labour's position is, politely, contradictory. You can't end freedom of movement and "retain the benefits of the single market."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 8:14 am

Regarding the "we/they can't do that/not possible thing(s),Government(s)has been breaking the law for over a month now in breaching the Pensions Act.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 8:19 am

http://paullewismoney.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... ected.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 8:22 am

I don't know if anyone's linked this article by Patrick Butler yet. A good snapshot of the (presumably intended) consequences of Tory benefit reform:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -tightrope" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Low income families forced to walk 'relentless financial tightrope'
Survey by debt charity finds many families going without food, furniture and new clothes as they struggle with huge debts

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 8:38 am

They have now

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 8:40 am

SpinningHugo wrote:And now Long-Bailey on radio 4 refuses to say we should end freedom of movement. Back to re-education for her.

This kind of thing is just going to continue as Labour's position is, politely, contradictory. You can't currently end freedom of movement and "retain the benefits of the single market."

Fixed that for you.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 8:44 am

In my young wild partying days,wish I could remember how we got the donkey up there,II used to live in a tower block in London on the nineteenth floor with two women,I have never been the same since.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 8:57 am

Morning.

The grotesquerie of former Tory chancellors.

Part I:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40265875" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Part II:

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SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 9:00 am

Those Long-Bailey quotes

https://www.politicshome.com/news/europ ... would-back" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Very different from McDonnell on Sunday for Kremlin watchers.

There is probably a generational divide. Leftists like Long-Bailey and Lewis grew up as Europeans and have a commitment to it that Corbyn and McDonnell don't.

Probably an intelligence divide too. I doubt Burgon grasps the subtleties.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 9:09 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:And now Long-Bailey on radio 4 refuses to say we should end freedom of movement. Back to re-education for her.

This kind of thing is just going to continue as Labour's position is, politely, contradictory. You can't currently end freedom of movement and "retain the benefits of the single market."
Fixed that for you.

No, I am afraid that is a contradiction in terms. It is a single because it has freedom of movement. If we didn't have freedom of movement between Sheffield and Leeds there wouldn't be a single market between them either.

The second order point (which is no less true though not a matter of logic) is that the practical likelihood of the 27 other member states agreeing to the UK retaining freedom to provide goods and services into the rest of the EU, whilst ditching freedom of movement, is nil.

Also note that no serious politician is claiming your position is viable. McDonnell is saying we must leave the single market because we're committed to ditch freedom of movement. Long-Bailey (somewhat incomprehensibly) is saying we should keep freedom of movement in order to stay in.

There are some liars out there (eg Umunna who claims we can end freedom of movement and stay in the single market. He has shown himself to be a fool.)

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 9:09 am

Do we never learn? This from todays Guardian.

Why are we reporting let alone listening to this devalued, cut and run opportunist who got us all into this in the first place. In the nations interest my arse!

Cameron urges May to adopt a "softer" Brexit
Here is more from the Financial Times story (paywall) about David Cameron, the Conservative former prime minister, urging Theresa May to adopt a “softer” Brexit. The paper quotes what Cameron told a conference in Poland.

“It’s going to be difficult, there’s no doubt about that, but perhaps an opportunity to consult more widely with the other parties on how best we can achieve it,” [Cameron] said.
“I think there will be pressure for a softer Brexit,” Mr Cameron added, saying that parliament now “deserves a say” on the issue. While also saying Mrs May was right to remain in office despite losing the majority that he bequeathed her, Mr Cameron warned “over Brexit, she is going to have to talk more widely, listen to other parties”.
At the ABSL gathering, Mr Cameron also highlighted the 13 newly elected Conservative MPs in Scotland and the call by Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, for “an open Brexit”.
“There’s no doubt that there is a new player on the stage,” Mr Cameron said. “Scotland voted against Brexit. I think most of the Scottish Conservatives will want to see perhaps some changes with the policy going forward.”

By the way for those amongst us who will "jump" I am not commenting on the content I am merely asking why we even give him the opportunity to infect us with his devalued views.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 9:12 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... re-by-half

Side street routes to avoid city pollution can cut exposure by half
Clean air signposts and online walking maps to sidestep diesel fumes would benefit public health, finds study
What a good idea.

Hear, hear

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 9:12 am

Good-morning, everyone

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 9:29 am

ScarletGas wrote:Do we never learn? This from todays Guardian.

Why are we reporting let alone listening to this devalued, cut and run opportunist who got us all into this in the first place. In the nations interest my arse!

Cameron urges May to adopt a "softer" Brexit
Here is more from the Financial Times story (paywall) about David Cameron, the Conservative former prime minister, urging Theresa May to adopt a “softer” Brexit. The paper quotes what Cameron told a conference in Poland.

“It’s going to be difficult, there’s no doubt about that, but perhaps an opportunity to consult more widely with the other parties on how best we can achieve it,” [Cameron] said.
“I think there will be pressure for a softer Brexit,” Mr Cameron added, saying that parliament now “deserves a say” on the issue. While also saying Mrs May was right to remain in office despite losing the majority that he bequeathed her, Mr Cameron warned “over Brexit, she is going to have to talk more widely, listen to other parties”.
At the ABSL gathering, Mr Cameron also highlighted the 13 newly elected Conservative MPs in Scotland and the call by Ruth Davidson, the Scottish Tory leader, for “an open Brexit”.
“There’s no doubt that there is a new player on the stage,” Mr Cameron said. “Scotland voted against Brexit. I think most of the Scottish Conservatives will want to see perhaps some changes with the policy going forward.”

By the way for those amongst us who will "jump" I am not commenting on the content I am merely asking why we even give him the opportunity to infect us with his devalued views.

Hear hear. Also, the subtext sounds horribly like "I shafted the Labour party when they collaborated with me on Scotland, perhaps we can do the same again."

'Cos we're Tories, and that's what we do.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:04 am

Every time Dave speaks, heads hit table tops in despair

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:17 am

You broke it, you've bought it.

This flustercook is all down to you Tories. Own it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:23 am

Good morfternoon.

norman smith (@BBCNormanS)

Deal between DUP and Govt cd be delayed until next week cos of aftermath of #grenfelltower and diary commitments of both leaders
June 14, 2017

(Politics Live, Guardian)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:30 am

Alternatively -

Announcement of Tory/DUP deal postponed following London fire

Rajeev Syal

DUP sources are confirming that the Tory/DUP deal will not be announced today because of the Grenfell Tower fire. And they say that 95% of it is already agreed. But they are dismissing the suggestion that the final announcement will be postponed until next week. (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)

Post by **adam** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:46 am

: Screen Shot 2017-06-14 at 10.45.48.png (87.83 KiB) Viewed 24871 times

ScarletGas · Post by **ScarletGas** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:53 am

On Scotland......

The continuing emphasis on parroting the revival of Scottish conservatism under Ruth Davidson is interesting to compare with the reaction from tories to the job Jeremy Corbyn has done

According wisdom of the tories and their right wing acolytes in the media Ruth Davidson is soon to be raised to sainthood and the next leader (if she wants it) of the party.

Jeremy Corbyn, on the other hand, lost.Ah, but "terrorist sympathiser" Corbyn only got the votes of the impressionable and easily led young by bribing them.

But didn't Ruth Davidson (accepting that she also did a good job) lose?

Through my biased lens if anyone defied the odds of expectation then Jeremy Corbyn should, at least, be allowed some credit.

Can anyone sensibly explain to me the difference between the two results which justify such a jaundiced reaction or am I to assume that the continually corrupt stain on our democratic process i.e our esteemed media (both dead tree and visual) is still trying to set the nations agenda?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 10:59 am

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"Don't politicise tragedies, you disgusting lefties" - where have we heard that before?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:06 am

NonOxCol wrote:

"Don't politicise tragedies, you disgusting lefties" - where have we heard that before?

It's awkward, I think, for some, when the truth gets told and there's nowhere to hide

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:13 am

Any agreement on how delayed the agreement will be?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:14 am

Tories finished barely 1% ahead of Labour in the Scottish popular vote. A poll at the start of the campaign had them ahead by 33% to 13%.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:19 am

Turns out that Diane Abbott really was ill, then. Who knew?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:21 am

HindleA wrote:Any agreement on how delayed the agreement will be?

After the Royal Ascot race meeting -

"This would allow the Queen to attend the Royal Ascot race meeting next week."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... g_share_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:22 am

Is Stanley Baxter not available?

Post by **adam** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:23 am

AngryAsWell wrote:
HindleA wrote:Any agreement on how delayed the agreement will be?
After the Royal Ascot race meeting -

"This would allow the Queen to attend the Royal Ascot race meeting next week."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... g_share_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So once we've sorted out the Garter ceremony (long in the diary), the horse racing (long in the diary) we might be able to get ready for the beginning of A50 negotiations that begin next Monday (long in the diary) so long as we've sorted the detailed negotiations about the precise nature of supply and confidence (interposed in the diary by May's decision to have an election.)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:25 am

adam wrote:
AngryAsWell wrote:
HindleA wrote:Any agreement on how delayed the agreement will be?
After the Royal Ascot race meeting -

"This would allow the Queen to attend the Royal Ascot race meeting next week."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... g_share_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So once we've sorted out the Garter ceremony (long in the diary), the horse racing (long in the diary) we might be able to get ready for the beginning of A50 negotiations that begin next Monday (long in the diary) so long as we've sorted the detailed negotiations about the precise nature of supply and confidence (interposed in the diary by May's decision to have an election.)

Strength and stability, indeed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:36 am

"Supreme Court has narrowly upheld ban on NHS-funded abortion care due to government’s “respect” for decisions of the NI Assembly."

"Jeremy Hunt has confirmed ban on NHS-funded abortion care for NI women is due to political - not economic - considerations."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-i ... ce=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:51 am

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/exper ... lock-fire/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

expert reaction to the Grenfell tower block fire

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 11:53 am

NonOxCol wrote:

"Don't politicise tragedies, you disgusting lefties" - where have we heard that before?

Less than a fortnight ago, remarkably.

Post by **adam** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:02 pm

: Screen Shot 2017-06-14 at 12.01.19.png (451.74 KiB) Viewed 24716 times

Verhofstadt's five questions

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:03 pm

https://www.buzzfeed.com/laurasilver/he ... .ixqQzEPb6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here’s How To Donate Online To Help People Who Have Lost Their Homes In The Grenfell Tower Fire

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:04 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/exper ... lock-fire/

expert reaction to the Grenfell tower block fire

The role of the external cladding in the spread of the fire has been an early focus in a lot of the reports. A fire safety expert speaking a few moments ago on BBC News 24 also talked about the role fire doors are supposed to play in containing the spread of fire and suggested questions will be asked about why so much smoke apparently entered corridors and escape routes so quickly. It's the function of fire doors and containment zones that should allow people in the block not directly affected by a fire to remain safe within their flats until fire crew evacuate them. While the use of cladding will be very controversial, fire doors are not. There is no excuse for fire doors not being in place and adequately maintained. There are going to be a lot of questions, clearly.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:11 pm

#Paul Waugh

Sha(d)ow Housing Sec John Healey currently updating Shad Cabinet on Grenfell fire. Meanwhile serious qs about Govt fire safety review delays

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:13 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Today's event is devastating and should not be tolerated."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:27 pm

#Norman Smith

Am told no statement in Parliament on #grenfelltower
possible until after Queens Speech which is..who knows when....

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:39 pm

@adam

I think Guy Verhofstadt's second question is very welcome - and its lack of any attempt at subtlety demonstrates how pissed off the EU is with the Government.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 12:51 pm

HindleA wrote:#Norman Smith

Am told no statement in Parliament on #grenfelltower
possible until after Queens Speech which is..who knows when....

And yet...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 1:01 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

"Today's event is devastating and should not be tolerated."

Unfortunately, I think that his fears for the level of the death toll will be proved correct. Hopefully not quite as high as the figure he is positing, but I can't see it being anywhere near as low as it is at present.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 1:08 pm

There's a man (who, along with his family, has lost his home and all his possessions) being interviewed on the BBC News. He's saying that he's reluctant (or even totalling unwilling) to accept kind offers of temporary accommodation because he'll be putting himself at the back of the queue (or even not in the queue at all) for rehousing. How right he is, and how I sympathise with his awful dilemma.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 1:11 pm

Theresa May is proving herself to be even more despicable than I thought possible.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 14 Jun, 2017 1:13 pm

PorFavor wrote:Theresa May is proving herself to be even more despicable than I thought possible.

#DespicableMay