Wednesday 21st June 2017

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 1:55 pm

HindleA wrote:Re Trump-very unlikely,not definitive.

indeed, the BBC later said it was still intended to go ahead "at some point". Who knows, maybe The Donald will get impeached first?

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 2:08 pm

Good to see there's a push for another Corbyn and the Queen outrage. Sigh.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 2:09 pm

RE flats
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/firs ... r-disaster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 2:13 pm

Some discussion as to if the Salisbury Convention applies/will apply or not?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 2:20 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Good to see there's a push for another Corbyn and the Queen outrage. Sigh.

Apparently the leaders do NOT usually bow to the monarch.

So Jezza got the protocol right

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 2:44 pm

She looked really happy to be there,it has to be said.It wasn't the "normal/full" ceremony,in any case,very disappointed there wasn't a gospellish call and response adaption,indeed I think they should be a different theme every time.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 2:45 pm

Punk version would be good,

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 2:52 pm

"Care for the environment is always a social concern as well. Let us hear both the cry of the earth and the cry of the poor."

I wonder what Trump's thoughts are on Pope Francis?

Post by **adam** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 3:09 pm

Kwasi Kwarteng in the commons...

When the election result was declared, there were gasps of despair and deep disappointment. And that was just the parliamentary Labour party.
A government was formed. And we could follow it all in the strictly impartial pages of the Evening Standard.

/...

It is in a sombre mood that he commends the gracious speech, he says.

Sigh.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 3:38 pm

HindleA wrote:Punk version would be good,

I loved her outfit

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 3:58 pm

I'm not the best person to give a sartorial opinion.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 3:59 pm

Does it cover the necessary and dressing gown preference is as far as I go.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 4:24 pm

Grenfell Tower families to be rehoused in flats at luxury complex
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... nt-complex" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Families who escaped the tower blaze will be able to take up permanent occupation in July and August in the apartments in the Kensington Row scheme about 1.5 miles south of Grenfell...The homes are within the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea but in the more affluent south end of the borough. They have been purchased by the Corporation of London and will become part of its social housing stock.

...the homes being released to Grenfell residents are part of the affordable quota being built and feature a more “straightforward” internal specification, but have the same build quality.

Government are doing their job making sure people are safely housed in their area. Grenfell tower residents live and work in Kensington. It's not an act of charity, it's government's job. Affordable housing for everyone living in the UK is possible. Government made this happen and can ensure everyone living in the UK is safely housed. We all pay a lot for housing in the UK. Habitation should be safe and secure.

The Department for Communities and Local Government has provided “additional funding to fit out the flats to ensure they are ready for people to move in to sooner”, a DCLG statement said. Extra construction staff have been committed by the developer and working-hour restrictions will be relaxed to speed the completion of the flats.

(cJA emphasis)

Don't cut corners. Mistakes happen when people are rushed, understaffed and tired.
Fire services, law enforcement, health care professionals, building inspections departments, home-building and maintenance teams all need fully trained and sufficiently staffed groups of workers at all times and paid properly for their work.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 4:26 pm

HindleA wrote:Does it cover the necessary and dressing gown preference is as far as I go.

The woman was a walking EU flag
Stunning

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 4:41 pm

Counter-terrorism resources are stretched and investigations into other crimes are being shelved in order to support the pursuit of extremists, the country’s top police officer has said. Cressida Dick, the Metropolitan police commissioner, said the terrorism attacks in the capital meant officers had to spend more time investigating retrospectively and were unable to dedicate as much resource to gathering intelligence to prevent future attacks.

- Stretched police shelving other inquiries to focus on terrorism, says Met chief
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ssida-dick" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't cut necessary staff, Tories.
Tory government ought to stop what they've not done well for years and work for a living instead. They'll learn all kinds of relevant and necessary information.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 4:47 pm

On Tuesday night Huw Edwards opened the BBC’s flagship News at Ten with a stunning few minutes of mesmerising live on-air silence.
A BBC computer glitch left the experienced presenter on air doing absolutely nothing for two minutes

It's difficult doing nothing like that. He did a good job of it.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 6:01 pm

I can quite happily stare into space for several hours.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 6:44 pm

Me too.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 6:51 pm

I didn't know you were a fellow astronomer

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 6:55 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 00766.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tory-DUP deal plunged into fresh jeopardy as unionists 'demand £2bn investment in Northern Ireland'

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:02 pm

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... dmits-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scottish Parliament ‘could have power to block Brexit Great Repeal Bill’ admits May
by DEREK HEALEYJune 21, 2017, 6:30 pm

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said: “We would hope that everyone would get behind delivering on the will of the British people.”

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:15 pm

HindleA wrote:I didn't know you were a fellow astronomer

"Here's harmony!" said she; "here's repose! Here's what may leave all painting and all music behind, and what poetry only can attempt to describe! Here's what may tranquillise every care, and lift the heart to rapture! When I look out on such a night as this, I feel as if there could be neither wickedness nor sorrow in the world; and there certainly would be less of both if the sublimity of Nature were more attended to, and people were carried more out of themselves by contemplating such a scene."

- from Mansfield Park
Jane Austen

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:21 pm

I can't sleep(not that I sleep much at all)/rest until I espy a star of significance to me.Hopefully nobody watching the thumbs up/waving to.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:22 pm

'Til it tells me to stop being an arse.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:23 pm

And wearing the dressing gown.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:24 pm

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said: “We would hope that everyone would get behind delivering on the will of the British people.”

deliberately asinine
'see how much we despise you for not voting correctly? ha-ha! we are deliberately asinine to your face, yes! ha-ha!'

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:28 pm

Good morfternoon.

Has anybody yet moved in to seize paperwork\e-mails from the relevant bodies (Grenfell Tower)?

Before it all gets shredded\deleted\"mislaid"? I can never understand why this isn't done at the outset. May be too late, even now.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:52 pm

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Has anybody yet moved in to seize paperwork\e-mails from the relevant bodies (Grenfell Tower)?

Before it all gets shredded\deleted\"mislaid"? I can never understand why this isn't done at the outset. May be too late, even now.

Sadiq Khan was concerned too. He made a point of demanding authorities having access to all relevant information having to do with the fire within twenty-four hours.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 7:55 pm

Evening All

For anyone interested, the delayed Teaching Excellence Framework results are out at midnight tonight. Universities who have submitted to the exercise will be graded gold, silver or bronze for their "teaching excellence".

It's a hugely contested idea of course, but there you are.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 8:18 pm

Thanks for info

I like the old midnight looking for reports thing,werewolf duties notwithstanding,though getting a bit long in the tooth for that,nowadays.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 8:20 pm

Hopefully a bit better than watching a vote an hour count like last night.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 8:21 pm

Missed my old mate Wolf Blitzer,to be fair,

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 8:29 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... e-cladding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Grenfell Tower: 16 council inspections failed to stop use of flammable cladding
Exclusive: Officials tasked with enforcing strict fire regulations didn’t prevent use of material effectively banned on tall buildings

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 8:32 pm

Barry Turner, director of technical policy at Local Authority Building Control, which represents council building control teams in England and Wales, said: “What we need to know is what was inspected. You can go on site 16 times but not necessarily see everything you need to see. They may have inspected the fixings, the fire barrier and the cavity, which are equally important but are useless if you put a flammable material on the front.”
Turner said that it was difficult to tell the difference between fire-resistant and non-fire resistant panels once they are installed and stressed that “the person responsible for doing it right is the person carrying out the work”.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 8:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... s-ideology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 9:25 pm

Architects like me know Grenfell Tower fire was an avoidable tragedy
Building control departments in councils have been left toothless and eviscerated while the authority of fire officers and architects has been weakened in favour of profit. Look where that has got us.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... le-tragedy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 9:45 pm

Abolition of slavery: the ethics of submitting to the will of the people part 1

1787/8 100 petitions with over 60,000 signatures (over 3 months) presented to Parliament
1789 Wilberforce first speech to Parliament
Supporters of slave trade stall by requesting new inquiry
1791 Wilberforce loses by 163 votes to 88
1792 519 petitions with over 3890,000 signatures presented to Parliament
Bill to cease trade 'gradually' (meaning never) passed
1806 Britain at war with France -> successful and introducing ban on British participation in slave trade with France and allies
1807 Abolition slave trade with British colonies
1833 total ban

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 9:49 pm

Abolition of the death penalty: the ethics of submitting to the will of the people part 2

Abolition did not come about as the result of one single event, or for one reason alone. It happened
because of a combination of sustained Parliamentary campaigning; public disquiet over three
controversial executions in the 1950s; botched reforms to the law of murder in the 1950s; and
changing attitudes towards social and penal affairs, most of all, the acceptance by an enlightened
majority of MPs that the state just ought not to be in the business of taking human life. It is worth
emphasising that this was a Parliamentary decision which was not supported by the public: abolition
came in the face of popular support in the UK for capital punishment, at least in the abstract, which
has lasted more or less until the present day
http://www.deathpenaltyproject.org/wp-c ... 1-68-1.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 9:51 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... dmits-may/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scottish Parliament ‘could have power to block Brexit Great Repeal Bill’ admits May
by DEREK HEALEYJune 21, 2017, 6:30 pm

A spokesman for the Prime Minister said: “We would hope that everyone would get behind delivering on the will of the British people.”

The Scotsman is a bit less confident:

While MSPs won’t be able to block the legislation, a defeat for the government would deal a damaging blow to a Prime Minister whose administration is reeling.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/g ... -1-4482642" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 9:54 pm

Fox hunting: the ethics of submitting to the will of the people part 3

http://www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/fo ... n-britain/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Foxhunting continued to grow in popularity throughout the nineteenth century, particularly because of the inroads made by the Great British Railway which provided rural access to the masses. Despite the banning of the sport in Germany and other European countries from 1934 onwards, foxhunting in the United Kingdom remained popular well into the twentieth century. Indeed a shortage of foxes in England led to a demand for foxes to be imported from France, Germany, Holland and Sweden.

These days however, foxhunting in the UK is much better known for the controversial views of those who champion the sport and those that oppose it. The debate between hunters and anti-hunting campaigners, who believe the sport to be cruel and unnecessary, eventually led to a Government inquiry in December 1999 into hunting with dogs, named the Burns Inquiry after the retired civil servant Lord Burns who chaired the inquiry.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:07 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 00806.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit: LBC caller voted to take back control from EU 'fascist super-state' but cannot name a single law he dislikes
'I'm not necessarily naming laws, I'm talking about the change,' says Shane from Southall

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:12 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 00786.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Social media sites have to redesign themselves if democracy is to survive, the report warns
Bots and trolls are working together to spread propaganda and manipulate Twitter and Facebook users’ political views, says a new study from the University of Oxford.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:21 pm

At last - 'Hawkeye' is a real doctor:

US actor Alan Alda, famous for his roles in M*A*S*H and The West Wing, has received an honorary degree from Dundee University for his work promoting the communication of science. The 81-year-old was made a Doctor of Law at a graduation ceremony in the city’s Caird Hall. The actor, who became a worldwide name in his role as Captain Hawkeye Pierce in M*A*S*H, a tragi-com series which portrayed life during the Korean War, helped found the Alan Alda Center for Communicating Science at Stony Brook University.

http://www.scotsman.com/regions/dundee- ... -1-4482219" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:28 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... d-response" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:38 pm

From Mr A's link above:

Among those exercising dogs and small children, the views were more mixed. “It’s so unfair,” said Maria, who was reading the news in the Evening Standard with two neighbours.

She bought her flat two years ago for a sum she was unwilling to disclose. “We paid a lot of money to live here, and we worked hard for it. Now these people are going to come along, and they won’t even be paying the service charge.”

How humane.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 10:47 pm

I liked Mair v Johnson and Two Ronnies sketch mention.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 11:24 pm

Perhaps fittingly, then, the night’s real star was neither politician nor reporter but an unnamed member of the public who, on seeing the BBC crew in Stoke, stormed up and announced: “I am going to vote against Ukip… My father was an immigrant and he was the loveliest man you could ever meet. How dare Paul Nuttall show his face in this city, the racist, anti-immigration bastard?” Perhaps there’s hope for humanity after all.

Read more at: https://inews.co.uk/essentials/culture/ ... ng-farage/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 11:27 pm

FWIW as the supreme leader of both the known and unknown World the protocol is everybody bows their head to me,beyond head stotting attempts this is rarely carried out.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 11:28 pm

I'm hearing now that the burning cladding released cyanide gas.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 21 Jun, 2017 11:31 pm

Have ordered that Maria be decamped to an island with no name to satisfy her desire for exclusivity. PTO