Friday 23rd June 2017

Post by **refitman** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 7:10 am

Morning all.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 8:36 am

Morning.

Breaking: this man is thick as mince.

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StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 8:59 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Breaking: this man is thick as mince.

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Some good replies

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 9:14 am

Good morfternoon.

Spending watchdog condemns 'risky and expensive' Hinkley Point

Damning report says nuclear project is bad for UK consumers and governments failed to assess alternative finance models (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -c-nuclear

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 9:29 am

https://blog.scope.org.uk/2017/06/21/th ... or-action/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 9:47 am

In Wales:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-40357035" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leavers dispute whether there will be economic damage from Brexit, but Ms Morgan suggested that attitudes would change "as prices in the shops continue to rise and the economy contracts".
Currently she thinks that the people of Wales have not been convinced "that Brexit will be as damaging as I think it will be to the economy".

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 10:13 am

I won't bother adding an editorial comment:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 03631.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Leading Brexit campaigner says 'vacuous' referendum should never been called
German-born Gisela Stuart was Labour's most prominent Eurosceptic

Leading Brexiteer Gisela Stuart has described the EU referendum an “abuse of democratic process” and said she would rather it had never been called.

The former Labour MP and co-chair of Vote Leave said voters were faced with a “vacuous” choice last June and the handling of the fallout from the poll was “not good democracy”.

She added that she stood by her support for Britain quitting the bloc, but said there was no accountability on either side of the argument once the result had been announced and the campaign groups had disbanded.

Instead, she said she wished voters had been given a say on the Lisbon Treaty.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 10:49 am

Graun live:

EU citizens living in the UK should take “reassurance and confidence” from proposals for their post-Brexit status, Theresa May said on the second day of the EU summit in Brussels.

I see the vacuous phrase approach continues.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 10:58 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Graun live:

EU citizens living in the UK should take “reassurance and confidence” from proposals for their post-Brexit status, Theresa May said on the second day of the EU summit in Brussels.
I see the vacuous phrase approach continues.

Every Conservative I've heard from today has been spouting "fair and serious" so these ridiculous catchphrases obviously form part of some official policy. Does someone at No 10 hand out cue-cards saying, "Here, try this one,"?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 11:03 am

EU leaders have described the UK’s opening offer to protect EU citizens’ rights as vague and inadequate, suggesting the British government needs to go further. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Ah, that's a better one for the cue-card collection - "vague and inadequate".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 11:12 am

Manslaughter charges now being mooted re Grenfell.

Lost Soul · Post by **Lost Soul** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 11:19 am

Anyone listening to the Brexit programme on R4....

How... just how is Brexit going to make Wakefield 'great again' ?

This radio is going out of the window soon.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 11:32 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:I won't bother adding an editorial comment:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 03631.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Leading Brexit campaigner says 'vacuous' referendum should never been called
German-born Gisela Stuart was Labour's most prominent Eurosceptic

Leading Brexiteer Gisela Stuart has described the EU referendum an “abuse of democratic process” and said she would rather it had never been called.

The former Labour MP and co-chair of Vote Leave said voters were faced with a “vacuous” choice last June and the handling of the fallout from the poll was “not good democracy”.

She added that she stood by her support for Britain quitting the bloc, but said there was no accountability on either side of the argument once the result had been announced and the campaign groups had disbanded.

Instead, she said she wished voters had been given a say on the Lisbon Treaty.

Hang on, It was the Lisbon Treaty that made it easier to leave the EU than had been the case before and which gave us Article 50!

There is no way on earth that you could have had a referendum on something which had so much detail and so many different Articles.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 11:47 am

tinyclanger2 wrote:Graun live:

EU citizens living in the UK should take “reassurance and confidence” from proposals for their post-Brexit status, Theresa May said on the second day of the EU summit in Brussels.
I see the vacuous phrase approach continues.

A nicely put response to what's being offered:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 04051.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EU citizens say Theresa May’s 'generous' offer will leave them with fewer rights than a jar of jam

...“Under any kind of trade deal, there has to be a supranational court to give the people trading protection, so we do not have unilateral future changes.
“British jam and the French wine trade will be regulated under this kind of jurisdiction, whereas we will lose this. Why should jam have more rights than a Spanish nurse, or a Polish plumber?”

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 12:24 pm

Downing Street has said private landlords will not be compelled to carry out testing for flammable cladding on tower blocks, but local authorities will be advising them to have the materials submitted for testing.

The prime minister’s spokesman said the Department for Communities and Local Government, had spoken to local authorities about private sector residential blocks. “The testing facility is available to them and we expect many will use it,” she said.

“We are not compelling them, local authorities are identifying private buildings which have cladding but we don’t know the number or volume of those yet.

“We expect private landlords which have cladding on their buildings will use the testing site and they will be responsible about that, that’s the message we are getting out to them.” (Politics Live, Guardian - my emphasis)

That's ok, then.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 12:32 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 12:35 pm

Thank you all. I couldn't ask for a better summary of current daily affairs. I'm beyond flabbergasted with today's line-up.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 12:45 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
EU citizens say Theresa May’s 'generous' offer will leave them with fewer rights than a jar of jam

...“Under any kind of trade deal, there has to be a supranational court to give the people trading protection, so we do not have unilateral future changes.
“British jam and the French wine trade will be regulated under this kind of jurisdiction, whereas we will lose this.
Why should jam have more rights than a Spanish nurse, or a Polish plumber?”

(cJA edit & emphasis)
Looking at the last seven years of Tory policies and Tory's historical record, I think products and things are often more valuable to them than are human beings.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 12:48 pm

Officials at Kensington and Chelsea council are withdrawing documents sent to Grenfell Tower survivors that they feared could have waived their legal rights in return for receiving emergency payments, the Guardian has learned.

A letter sent from the council this week to families affected by the fire asked survivors to sign a form confirming receipt of the emergency “compensation” money. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Who drafted (and approved) that? And there I was thinking that Gisela Stuart was thick . . .

Edited to add -

And did they withdraw it off their own bat or was there external intervention?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 12:51 pm

http://touchstoneblog.org.uk/2017/06/4- ... um=twitter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

4 reasons to dismiss the Chancellor’s claim of ‘good progress’ on deficit reduction

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 1:01 pm

Rehoused residents of Grenfell may be newly subject to welfare reforms,the bedroom tax for example,revealing the "lifestyle choice"for the bollox it is.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 1:24 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Officials at Kensington and Chelsea council are withdrawing documents sent to Grenfell Tower survivors that they feared could have waived their legal rights in return for receiving emergency payments, the Guardian has learned.

A letter sent from the council this week to families affected by the fire asked survivors to sign a form confirming receipt of the emergency “compensation” money. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Who drafted (and approved) that? And there I was thinking that Gisela Stuart was thick . . .

Edited to add -

And did they withdraw it off their own bat or was there external intervention?

Yeah, who the hell is running this show?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 1:58 pm

Leading Brexiteer Gisela Stuart has described the EU referendum an “abuse of democratic process” and said she would rather it had never been called.

The former Labour MP and co-chair of Vote Leave said voters were faced with a “vacuous” choice last June and the handling of the fallout from the poll was “not good democracy”.

She added that she stood by her support for Britain quitting the bloc, but said there was no accountability on either side of the argument once the result had been announced and the campaign groups had disbanded.

Instead, she said she wished voters had been given a say on the Lisbon Treaty.

(cJA edit)
I'm quite disturbed by this from Stuart. I literally don't understand.
Either Stuart's mental processes are compromised and requires diagnosis or members of Parliament are somehow prevented from understanding what they're voting on and/or the consequences of legislation.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:00 pm

What's going on with the DUP deal? I wonder if the DUP themselves initiated the idea (ie threatened to withold their usual support if they didn't get some sort of pay-off) on account of Theresa May's incredibly weakened position.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:02 pm

I hope Hotpoint manage to do a better job on their 'frig'\freezer recall (should it be required) than they did with the Hotpoint\Whirlpool tumble dryers.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:16 pm

Theresa May being very testy at her EU press conference.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:16 pm

Referendum was a year ago today. I genuinely didn't see a "leave" vote coming.......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:35 pm

PorFavor wrote:What's going on with the DUP deal? I wonder if the DUP themselves initiated the idea (ie threatened to withold their usual support if they didn't get some sort of pay-off) on account of Theresa May's incredibly weakened position.

Is that even legal?
I understand it's an MPs' job to represent their constituencies and use their time in office getting what communities need.
'If our community isn't given special funding, we'll not support you in government' - is an altogether different thing, isn't it? Have I misunderstood? I may very well have done.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:35 pm

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/we ... ildren?amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:35 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Referendum was a year ago today. I genuinely didn't see a "leave" vote coming.......

Although the polls (though often maligned for being wrong) had logged numerous leads for "leave" in the years preceding the referendum, especially during the Eurozone crisis. Something I don't think we saw for "yes" in the Scottish independence vote. It must surely have crossed the minds of those involved in calling the EU referendum that a "leave" vote was more than possible. Or maybe not.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:Theresa May being very testy at her EU press conference.

She's still programmed for 'bloody difficult woman'

Post by **adam** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:41 pm

citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:What's going on with the DUP deal? I wonder if the DUP themselves initiated the idea (ie threatened to withold their usual support if they didn't get some sort of pay-off) on account of Theresa May's incredibly weakened position.
Is that even legal?
I understand it's an MPs' job to represent their constituencies and use their time in office getting what communities need.
'If our community isn't given special funding, we'll not support you in government' - is an altogether different thing, isn't it? Have I misunderstood? I may very well have done.

I don't think many laws apply to what goes in in parliament. Individual MPs are elected as representatives of their communities, to use their judgement or otherwise on how to act and are not delegates, and are not delegated to act in a certain way (the idea being that if they don't represent their constituents to their constituents' content then they'll be voted out).

If the DUP's membership don't like what their party is doing they can kick up a stink but that seems very unlikely. The DUP can ask for whatever they want from the government. The issue won't be whether they're allowed to, it will be how much the government give them, and how much it pisses off the other nations/regions and so on.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:45 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Referendum was a year ago today. I genuinely didn't see a "leave" vote coming.......
Although the polls (though often maligned for being wrong) had logged numerous leads for "leave" in the years preceding the referendum, especially during the Eurozone crisis. Something I don't think we saw for "yes" in the Scottish independence vote. It must surely have crossed the minds of those involved in calling the EU referendum that a "leave" vote was more than possible. Or maybe not.

I expected that undecided voters would move towards the status quo. That is often the case in referendums, but this one was different

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:47 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ning-chief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ofsted to punish schools pushing exam targets over learning, says chief
Amanda Spielman says some schools should be ashamed of ‘badges and stickers’ tactics to bolster league table standing

Post by **adam** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 2:54 pm

It's interesting to see this first open discussion about what happens next, when as may have been speculated upon once or twice by unpatriotic and defeatest people like us, we say how we want things to be and everybody else all together says no.

Post by **adam** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 3:12 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ning-chief

Ofsted to punish schools pushing exam targets over learning, says chief
Amanda Spielman says some schools should be ashamed of ‘badges and stickers’ tactics to bolster league table standing

Amanda Spielman, the head of Ofsted, said school leaders should be ashamed of some of the tactics used to bolster their league table standings. They include primary pupils sitting mock tests for more than two years, and entering secondary students for qualifications requiring just two days of study to pass.

My italics - I think this is a reference to ECDL - European Computer Driving License. I honestly think that if the government and its agencies authorise and give recognition and league-table-points-value to a qualification, it's not the schools that should be criticised for delivering it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 3:22 pm

PorFavor wrote:I hope Hotpoint manage to do a better job on their 'frig'\freezer recall (should it be required) than they did with the Hotpoint\Whirlpool tumble dryers.

I've daily reaffirmations of the importance of always taking time for safety. Whether I'm engineering an appliance, helping someone bathe, performing superhero feats or crossing the street, I take time for safety. If I feel unable to safely perform a task, I sound off for help.

Dr. Mohammedabbas Khaki's very fine article describing community support in times of chaos was more moving than I anticipated. Decent people are regularly performing random acts of service for others because Tory government don't. I'm grateful for decent people. I must caution everyone to take time for safety, eat high-quality food, drink plenty of clean water, get plenty of sleep and don't vote Tory/UKIP, instead, vote Labour.

We're all important, irreplaceable. That's not a platitude. If everyone consistently recalled our equally shared significance, we'd treat ourselves and others with greater care.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 3:25 pm

Ask for what you need. It's often necessary asking for what you need repeatedly.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 3:33 pm

I know - pinch of salt:

http://www.holdthefrontpage.co.uk/2017/ ... ow-remain/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A regional daily whose patch voted strongly for Brexit has marked the anniversary of the European Union referendum with a poll which revealed a majority of those surveyed would now choose to remain.

The Sunderland Echo splashed on the survey today, with 63pc of 3,1000 polled stating they would now elect to stay in the EU.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 3:54 pm

Voodoo poll, but the difference with a similar survey pre-referendum is still notable.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 4:30 pm

Graun Live

Representatives of EU citizens in Britain have branded May’s offer to guarantee their rights after Brexit pathetic. They say the offer is damaging for Britons in Europe to whom, a fortnight ago, the EU offered a lifetime guarantee of all their current rights, something that the British team in Brussels failed to acknowledge on Thursday night, instead talking of how the UK’s offer was only on the table if it was reciprocated by the EU.

UK - Useless (Tory) 'Kers

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 4:32 pm

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... exit-vote/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theresa May ‘blocked Cameron’s offer to guarantee rights of EU nationals’ after Brexit vote

Isn't she just fabulous.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 4:35 pm

May was the sole cabinet minister to block a unilateral offer to EU citizens that they could remain in the days after the referendum, according to the London Evening Standard. The paper, edited by the former chancellor George Osborne, reports that David Cameron had prepared an offer to give EU citizens certainty but May insisted on “blocking it”. May said this was not her recollection.

(Graun Live)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 4:39 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... exit-vote/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Theresa May ‘blocked Cameron’s offer to guarantee rights of EU nationals’ after Brexit vote
Isn't she just fabulous.

"TANKS ON LABOUR'S LAWN!!"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 4:42 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... enefit-cap" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 4:52 pm

Elsewhere in Wales:

https://www.cchdaily.co.uk/cch_uk/cln/n ... ver_brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The National Assembly for Wales’ Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee has released a statement in which it outlines its concern that the National Assembly could lose powers to central control as a result of leaving the EU.

(strong and) stable (door)
horse (bolted)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 5:13 pm

People "shouldn't be housed in "larger"properties than they need,"should"get DHP if the "shouldn't" happens.Of course all this nonsense -the shock/surprise of an illustration of what people have voted for,defended and presented as success,hurriedly issued guidance,continued pissing away vast amounts in legal fees,strangely not waiting for a sufficiently strong economy to stop being cunts;there is a majority against the "it's not a tax,it's bloody misanthropic stupidity",bin it as soon as possible.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 5:21 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... enefit-cap

Will the former residents of Grenfell be able to afford rent increases?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 5:24 pm

HindleA wrote:"Shouldn't be put in "larger"properties than they need,"should"get DHP if the "shouldn't" happens.Of course all this nonsense (

oh, hell no
get serious, A
It's only rich people get nice things, space, clean air, water, good food
Poor people can't expect to live in 'properties larger than they need'

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 23 Jun, 2017 5:54 pm

"Is that dialysis machine really necessary?Other venues are available"