Thursday 29th June 2017.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:02 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:The Telegraph‏Verified account
@Telegraph
Follow
More
#BREAKING: Philip Hammond says NI women will be given free abortions in England to head off Queen's Speech defeat http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06 ... -minister/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:08 pm

We should include Bercow when applauding.

Post by **adam** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:12 pm

People ask on Twitter 'wouldn't it be easier to just accept the amendment ' - but then the DUP would have to vote for a Queen's Speech effectively liberalising abortion law in Northern Ireland which I suspect they would not be content to do.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:19 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... ority-data" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

National Statistics
Local authority revenue expenditure and financing England: 2017 to 2018 budget individual local authority data

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:22 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... save-money" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

To save money, councils are pushing residential care – and stripping rights
Rob Greig

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:25 pm

"43% of net social care spend on 18-65yr olds; 35% on older people
2/3 people with learning disabilities across all ages account for a third of net social care spend by councils.....
3/3 & this helps explain why it's unrealistic to expect councils to spend every penny of the new social care (iBCF) money on NHS pressures
just 3.5% of total net spend covered by social care precept this year - ineffective & regressive."

R.Humphries.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Rupert Murdoch's bid to be referred to the CMA (Competition and Markets Authority).
That is a "better than expected" outcome, no?

I've seen adam's link to the markets response and acknowledge this may be good for Murdoch, the bid being referred to CMA by government isn't so negative for him. I still get the impression Tory government are in a weaker position and those depending upon Tories for their agenda successes will be disappointed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:49 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1623953 ... e-grenfell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **adam** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 2:56 pm

Nicky Morgan on Chuka Umunna's amendment

she said that she would not support it, because she had concerns about the way it was drafted,

I suspect we will be hearing a lot of this kind of thing. It's not good for May to have backbenchers wandering around saying 'I won't support the opposition on this but only for technical reasons' but, at the same time, it's absolutely good enough for May for now. Useless non-oppositional opposition from the 'nice' cons.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 3:00 pm

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... s-13256376" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edge Lane closed by sinkhole that's getting bigger - live updates

(Liverpool)

By the way I know every street in Liverpool,it is Kensington.I only heard that joke 1,234,000 times,over several years,thought I would share it.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 3:03 pm

Total revenue expenditure by all local authorities in England is budgeted to be £94.5 billion in 2017-18.
This is an increase of 0.4% from £94.1 billion budgeted for 2016-17.

- Local Authority Revenue Expenditure and Financing: 2017-18 Budget, England
29 June 2017

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... elease.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Revenue expenditure by all local authorities in England totalled £94.5 billion in 2015-16.
This is a decrease of 1.5% from £95.9 billion in 2014-15.

- Local Authority Revenue Expenditure and Financing: 2015-16 Final Outturn, England
17 November 2016

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... elease.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory government are budgeting £1.4 billion less to English Local Authorities in 2017-18 than was spent in 2014-15

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 3:19 pm

If Conservative rebels had any sense, they'd let it be known that they intended to vote against the Government on anything they wanted (provided that the numbers stacked up) - and they'd get it tied up in a gold ribbon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 3:20 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1623963 ... s-own-laws" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 3:41 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... about-fire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 3:52 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1623973 ... the-courts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 4:42 pm

I see that the non-extendable deadline on the Northern Ireland power-sharing talks has been extended.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 6:59 pm

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/m ... -syringes/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 7:17 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... about-fire" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 7:47 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... about-fire

And following on from that...

Andrew Lomas‏
@andrewlomas
Follow
More
To recap. #RBKC organises a meeting from which it excludes the press, gets ordered by Court to let them in, abandons meeting.

Of course if Pickles was still around he would have sent his team in to take over, right?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:00 pm

The Kensington & Chelsea council members expressed concerns about their own safety but that doesn't explain why they wouldn't allow anyone to be there. It's off-putting, the council's decisions, in my opinion.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:02 pm

Jeremy Corbyn has asserted his authority over Labour by sacking frontbenchers who were among the 50 MPs who defied the whip and backed the UK staying in the single market.

I take it sitting on the fence is over?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:03 pm

citizenJA wrote:The Kensington & Chelsea council members expressed concerns about their own safety but that doesn't explain why they wouldn't allow anyone to be there. It's off-putting, the council's decisions, in my opinion.

Absolutely.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:08 pm

Includes video of the bit where the meeting was abandoned.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:10 pm

When the meeting is re-scheduled (Kensngton Council) it will no doubt be publicised on page 73 of the Exchange and Mart and will take place at an inconvenient time and place.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:10 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn has asserted his authority over Labour by sacking frontbenchers who were among the 50 MPs who defied the whip and backed the UK staying in the single market.
I take it sitting on the fence is over?

There was no need for slippery untrustworthy opportunist Chuka* to persist with his pointless grandstanding amendment - the leadership offered to meet him half way. He has also stolen the headlines from Stella Creasy, who has shown how you CAN achieve something useful despite not being on the front bench.

(*this is generally an accurate description of him, of course, but even more so in this instance - given that he was demanding an end to free movement just MONTHS ago)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn has asserted his authority over Labour by sacking frontbenchers who were among the 50 MPs who defied the whip and backed the UK staying in the single market.
I take it sitting on the fence is over?
There was no need for slippery untrustworthy opportunist Chuka* to persist with his pointless grandstanding amendment - the leadership offered to meet him half way. He has also stolen the headlines from Stella Creasy, who has shown how you CAN achieve something useful despite not being on the front bench.

(*this is generally an accurate description of him, of course, but even more so in this instance - given that he was demanding an end to free movement just MONTHS ago)

Utter balls.

Corbtn doesn't support staying in the single market, regardless of the slight difference in language with the Tories.

Chukka is hopeless of course, as he was one of the guilty men who made hard Brexit inevitable by voting for it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:15 pm

Hilarious to see one of our more tedious followers blaming "the public sector" rather than admit that it's a council run by the party he slavishly supports. I guess we know what the reaction would be if it was Labour-run...

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:19 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn has asserted his authority over Labour by sacking frontbenchers who were among the 50 MPs who defied the whip and backed the UK staying in the single market.
I take it sitting on the fence is over?
There was no need for slippery untrustworthy opportunist Chuka* to persist with his pointless grandstanding amendment - the leadership offered to meet him half way. He has also stolen the headlines from Stella Creasy, who has shown how you CAN achieve something useful despite not being on the front bench.

(*this is generally an accurate description of him, of course, but even more so in this instance - given that he was demanding an end to free movement just MONTHS ago)

Halfway how?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:24 pm

So the shadow cabinet reshuffle begins.

Who might he bring back?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:37 pm

Willow904 wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn has asserted his authority over Labour by sacking frontbenchers who were among the 50 MPs who defied the whip and backed the UK staying in the single market.
I take it sitting on the fence is over?

I care for the people first, the place they live next and the political party I think most likely to care for the first two I love the most
Will this be good for the people, country and Labour?
I genuinely don't know, that's why I'm asking
A political party isn't as important to me as the well-being of people and country/environment

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:42 pm

PorFavor wrote:When the meeting is re-scheduled (Kensngton Council) it will no doubt be publicised on page 73 of the Exchange and Mart and will take place at an inconvenient time and place.

They can just make up what they like in the minutes, you know? It's not nice democracy, demanding private meetings

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 8:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Jeremy Corbyn has asserted his authority over Labour by sacking frontbenchers who were among the 50 MPs who defied the whip and backed the UK staying in the single market.
I take it sitting on the fence is over?
There was no need for slippery untrustworthy opportunist Chuka* to persist with his pointless grandstanding amendment - the leadership offered to meet him half way. He has also stolen the headlines from Stella Creasy, who has shown how you CAN achieve something useful despite not being on the front bench.

(*this is generally an accurate description of him, of course, but even more so in this instance - given that he was demanding an end to free movement just MONTHS ago)

Stella Creasy voted with Chuka Umunna

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... a37c3d65c7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:06 pm

"Labour’s calls for an end to public sector pay freezes were defeated, but not before ministers wobbled and Downing Street was bounced into a chaotic clarification of its position. The opposition proved that there is not a sustainable majority in the Commons for the freeze. By applying pressure on a point where many Tories feel vulnerable to public discontent, Jeremy Corbyn’s party is already testing – and shrinking – the boundaries of Mrs May’s independence in fiscal policy. Without reliable command of the Commons, she cannot claim to have a coherent economic plan.

The same is true for Brexit. The government can no more rely on a parliamentary majority for the severe rupture envisaged in the Tory manifesto than it can count on support for unyielding austerity. A difference is that Labour’s opposition to cuts is focused, while its EU position is, from political necessity, something of a fudge. That has its own perils, as demonstrated by this evening’s sacking of Labour frontbenchers who rebelled by backing Chuka Umunna’s amendment demanding that the UK stay in the single market.

A strengthened parliament may not make for efficiency in affairs of state, but it is the necessary consequence of an election that leaves the Commons with no party having overall control."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... e-of-power" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I liked this

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:12 pm

Good evening

An unfortunate example of self-indulgence from Umunna that has done nothing except take the headlines away from the shambles of a Government we have, just as the press have been waiting for

Nothing is gained by this at all - it is completely unnecessary and is the action of either someone lacking intelligence, someone very naïve or someone who is purposely trying to damage the party.....I have never though Umunna was either of the first two

It is not as if this was an amendment laid down by another party when there is the excuse of 'conscience' - this was something he decided to do....and it was a futile and stupid gesture that has done nothing positive

Just another couple of points

This was a poorly developed amendment and it is not the time to bring this subject up....it was never going to pass and the Tories, even Clarke, sat on their hands. There was no way the Labour front bench was ever going to support this, and actually abstaining was more than it deserved

The time to have votes such as this is when we are in the Brexit negotiations and the votes are meaningful. As you can see from the A50 vote there is a tolerance of people voting with conscience when it is a substantive division - this was just a childish stunt

As to what it means for Labour's position - the reactions of the pro-Europeans is far overblown. The Labour policy not having a clear position on what 'single market access' means is still what it was a couple of weeks ago. Labour policy is not determined by Chuka Umunna!

This position has contributed to Labour actually taking away the Tory majority. if it had been clearly Brexit or clearly Remain then we would have a big Tory majority and May taking us out on her terms. Whether by luck or judgement we are in a situation where the chances of us having a better result at the end of this is much better than it was during the election. Interesting to see those that were all shouting that Corbyn was leading Labou to 200 seats or less and handing the Tories a massive victory are seemingly unable to admit they were wrong - those arch Remainers, the Lib Dems, really hoovered up the vote by their strong Remain position didn't they?

Those who voted with him are less culpable but even so you have to ask what their motives were

To be honest I am absolutely fizzing and if I was in Streatham I would be asking him some very pointed questions and would be happy to see him have the whip withdrawn for an exhibition of such gross stupidity

What was interesting to see though that those on the centre-right of the party who actually matter decided to show some sense of party unity which gives me some hope

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:16 pm

Is it that big of a deal? At this time and the nature of what was voted on, is it catastrophic?

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:30 pm

citizenJA wrote:Is it that big of a deal? At this time and the nature of what was voted on, is it catastrophic?

Hopefully not in the big scheme of things but the stupidity of doing it has to be jumped on otherwise we will be back to what is was like before the election

The media is looking for any excuse to avoid talking about the shambles of a Government

Today, the party forced a u-turn from the Government - and to be honest I would have pushed it through to a vote. What will be leading the news and on the front pages though?

Umunna is a snake and would have no future in the party if I had anything to do with it

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:35 pm

Corbyn ordered his MPs to abstain on the wording because, although Labour policy chimes with most of the sentiment, the party does not support the bid to keep full membership of the single market.

[Queen’s speech amendment calling for Britain to remain within the customs union and single market] attracted the support of 101 MPs across different parties [no Tories], including 49 Labour politicians who defied the leadership. It called for the government not to leave the EU without a deal, to guarantee a parliamentary vote on the final outcome of negotiations, to set in place transitional arrangements, and to “set out proposals to remain within the customs union and single market”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... arket-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm supposed to dislike Labour MPs or the Labour leader now? I can't muster it. I like them all okay.

Get this:

James Cleverly, the Conservative MP, said: “When it comes to Brexit, Labour are in total chaos. There is deep division at the heart of the Labour party on the most crucial issue facing the country today – they still can’t agree on the fundamentals and would get the worst Brexit deal at the highest price.”

I'm laughing at you, dude, you're talking about your party.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:39 pm

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/u ... ystematic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UN confirms that UK government’s treaty violations were both grave AND systematic

The committee has previously refused to expand on that conclusion, leaving it unclear whether the committee believed the violations were simply grave (serious) but isolated, or just systematic (regular) but not grave or serious.

But the committee has now agreed for the first time to expand on its conclusion, and has revealed to Disability News Service (DNS) that the breaches of the convention by the UK government were both grave and systematic.

A spokeswoman for the committee said: “The committee can confirm that some violations were grave, some others were systematic and some were both: grave and systematic.”

The committee had concluded in the report that the UK government had discriminated against disabled people across three key parts of the UN Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD).

Most of the breaches – which were all under articles 19 (independent living), article 27 (work and employment) and article 28 (adequate standard of living and social protection) of the convention – were caused by policies introduced by Conservative ministers at the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) between 2010 and 2015.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:43 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Corbyn ordered his MPs to abstain on the wording because, although Labour policy chimes with most of the sentiment, the party does not support the bid to keep full membership of the single market.

[Queen’s speech amendment calling for Britain to remain within the customs union and single market] attracted the support of 101 MPs across different parties [no Tories], including 49 Labour politicians who defied the leadership. It called for the government not to leave the EU without a deal, to guarantee a parliamentary vote on the final outcome of negotiations, to set in place transitional arrangements, and to “set out proposals to remain within the customs union and single market”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... arket-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm supposed to dislike Labour MPs or the Labour leader now? I can't muster it. I like them all okay.

Get this:
James Cleverly, the Conservative MP, said: “When it comes to Brexit, Labour are in total chaos. There is deep division at the heart of the Labour party on the most crucial issue facing the country today – they still can’t agree on the fundamentals and would get the worst Brexit deal at the highest price.”
I'm laughing at you, dude, you're talking about your party.

But the problem is he will say it, and the Tories will continue to say it supported by their friends in the media. How many Tory Remainers supported this amendment?

I am disgusted at Umunna's behaviour and would be happy to see him losing the whip on the grounds of gross stupidity at least. Once the amendment was there I can accept some of the others supported it because that is what they believe and I have some sympathy with that. Others I am not so sure of though, as there are a few of the usual subjects in there that always seem to vote like this....

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:44 pm

They're all Labour MPs until they're not returned or they're tossed out of the party for a just reason. I defend the Labour leader and Labour MPs because Labour is a twenty-first century democratic socialist party representing all kinds of people not just those with trust funds and titles. I think the party is okay right now. I'm not offended by any Labour action here.

Tories do this 'Brexit' horseshit, it's not Labour's.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:46 pm

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/en ... ghest-2009" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The number of families living in fuel poverty has hit its highest level since 2009, official figures revealed today.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:48 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Good evening

An unfortunate example of self-indulgence from Umunna that has done nothing except take the headlines away from the shambles of a Government we have, just as the press have been waiting for

Nothing is gained by this at all - it is completely unnecessary and is the action of either someone lacking intelligence, someone very naïve or someone who is purposely trying to damage the party.....I have never though Umunna was either of the first two

It is not as if this was an amendment laid down by another party when there is the excuse of 'conscience' - this was something he decided to do....and it was a futile and stupid gesture that has done nothing positive

Just another couple of points

This was a poorly developed amendment and it is not the time to bring this subject up....it was never going to pass and the Tories, even Clarke, sat on their hands. There was no way the Labour front bench was ever going to support this, and actually abstaining was more than it deserved

The time to have votes such as this is when we are in the Brexit negotiations and the votes are meaningful. As you can see from the A50 vote there is a tolerance of people voting with conscience when it is a substantive division - this was just a childish stunt

As to what it means for Labour's position - the reactions of the pro-Europeans is far overblown. The Labour policy not having a clear position on what 'single market access' means is still what it was a couple of weeks ago. Labour policy is not determined by Chuka Umunna!

This position has contributed to Labour actually taking away the Tory majority. if it had been clearly Brexit or clearly Remain then we would have a big Tory majority and May taking us out on her terms. Whether by luck or judgement we are in a situation where the chances of us having a better result at the end of this is much better than it was during the election. Interesting to see those that were all shouting that Corbyn was leading Labou to 200 seats or less and handing the Tories a massive victory are seemingly unable to admit they were wrong - those arch Remainers, the Lib Dems, really hoovered up the vote by their strong Remain position didn't they?

Those who voted with him are less culpable but even so you have to ask what their motives were

To be honest I am absolutely fizzing and if I was in Streatham I would be asking him some very pointed questions and would be happy to see him have the whip withdrawn for an exhibition of such gross stupidity

What was interesting to see though that those on the centre-right of the party who actually matter decided to show some sense of party unity which gives me some hope

Nah.

Back at the time of the art 50 vote Corbyn's position was less secure, so he couldn't sack people.

Now he s the golden boy of Glastonbury, he can punish dissent.

Hard Brexit it is, cheered on by Labour

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:52 pm

Breaking:Tories reach irredeemable bastard status scientists confirm.
We are proud of our record,a spokesperson stated,we thought total tossers ennoblement was the best we could achieve.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:53 pm

An honourable mention for the Libdems.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:54 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Willow904 wrote: I take it sitting on the fence is over?
There was no need for slippery untrustworthy opportunist Chuka* to persist with his pointless grandstanding amendment - the leadership offered to meet him half way. He has also stolen the headlines from Stella Creasy, who has shown how you CAN achieve something useful despite not being on the front bench.

(*this is generally an accurate description of him, of course, but even more so in this instance - given that he was demanding an end to free movement just MONTHS ago)
Stella Creasy voted with Chuka Umunna

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... a37c3d65c7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes I know, doesn't take away from what I said. This was an unnecessary pointless division (in more than one meaning of that word)

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:55 pm

Well, at least Nigel supports Jeremy today.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speaking only for myself, that depresses me far more than anything Umunna did, or anything Ken Clarke didn't do.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:56 pm

George Osborne gets top NASA position.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:56 pm

HindleA wrote:Breaking:Tories reach irredeemable bastard status scientists confirm.
We are proud of our record,a spokesperson stated,we thought total tossers ennoblement was the best we could achieve.

ain't that the truth

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:57 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Good evening

An unfortunate example of self-indulgence from Umunna that has done nothing except take the headlines away from the shambles of a Government we have, just as the press have been waiting for

Nothing is gained by this at all - it is completely unnecessary and is the action of either someone lacking intelligence, someone very naïve or someone who is purposely trying to damage the party.....I have never though Umunna was either of the first two

It is not as if this was an amendment laid down by another party when there is the excuse of 'conscience' - this was something he decided to do....and it was a futile and stupid gesture that has done nothing positive

Just another couple of points

This was a poorly developed amendment and it is not the time to bring this subject up....it was never going to pass and the Tories, even Clarke, sat on their hands. There was no way the Labour front bench was ever going to support this, and actually abstaining was more than it deserved

The time to have votes such as this is when we are in the Brexit negotiations and the votes are meaningful. As you can see from the A50 vote there is a tolerance of people voting with conscience when it is a substantive division - this was just a childish stunt

As to what it means for Labour's position - the reactions of the pro-Europeans is far overblown. The Labour policy not having a clear position on what 'single market access' means is still what it was a couple of weeks ago. Labour policy is not determined by Chuka Umunna!

This position has contributed to Labour actually taking away the Tory majority. if it had been clearly Brexit or clearly Remain then we would have a big Tory majority and May taking us out on her terms. Whether by luck or judgement we are in a situation where the chances of us having a better result at the end of this is much better than it was during the election. Interesting to see those that were all shouting that Corbyn was leading Labou to 200 seats or less and handing the Tories a massive victory are seemingly unable to admit they were wrong - those arch Remainers, the Lib Dems, really hoovered up the vote by their strong Remain position didn't they?

Those who voted with him are less culpable but even so you have to ask what their motives were

To be honest I am absolutely fizzing and if I was in Streatham I would be asking him some very pointed questions and would be happy to see him have the whip withdrawn for an exhibition of such gross stupidity

What was interesting to see though that those on the centre-right of the party who actually matter decided to show some sense of party unity which gives me some hope
Nah.

Back at the time of the art 50 vote Corbyn's position was less secure, so he couldn't sack people.

Now he s the golden boy of Glastonbury, he can punish dissent.

Hard Brexit it is, cheered on by Labour

Nah

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 29 Jun, 2017 9:58 pm

Oh. Not just Nigel either.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;