Tuesday 4th July 2017

Post by **refitman** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 8:57 am

Good morfternoon.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 9:57 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40385343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NHS under pressure: What is happening to A&E services?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:03 am

Over at the Guardian's Politics Live, there are the latest Conservative Home net satisfaction ratings for the Cabinet (and others). Theresa May comes bottom, but the top ten (which includes Liam Fox and Priti Patel) shows the overall dearth of talent. Especially since it shows Michael "Mad Mick" Fallon and Michael Gove as joint second.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:27 am

PorFavor wrote:Over at the Guardian's Politics Live, there are the latest Conservative Home net satisfaction ratings for the Cabinet (and others). Theresa May comes bottom, but the top ten (which includes Liam Fox and Priti Patel) shows the overall dearth of talent. Especially since it shows Michael "Mad Mick" Fallon and Michael Gove as joint second.

Gove. Blimey.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:28 am

From the indications they have provided previously, I suspect the new Labour frontbencher SH spoke of disparagingly yesterday is Anneliese Dodds.

I will just put it on the record, in that case, that she seems well regarded by several other observers.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:29 am

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... budget-nao" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sheffield to Rotherham tram-train is five times over budget.NAO.

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-sheff ... l-network/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:38 am

Lawson says he 'would look at fuel duties'.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... lls-tories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Many of us think they should have done something with fuel duty back in 2014 when the oil price dropped, Osborne's irresponsibility knows no bounds.
Ken Clarke was appalling on Newsnight, his tone worse than his words, possibly he'd had a drink. Basically said they couldn't do anything about public sector pay now because that would be giving in to Labour.
Doing the right thing for the country doesn't come in to it, as ever.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:40 am

StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Over at the Guardian's Politics Live, there are the latest Conservative Home net satisfaction ratings for the Cabinet (and others). Theresa May comes bottom, but the top ten (which includes Liam Fox and Priti Patel) shows the overall dearth of talent. Especially since it shows Michael "Mad Mick" Fallon and Michael Gove as joint second.
Gove. Blimey.

He has always polled very well in these surveys - as to why, your guess is as good as mine.

Was JRM in there??

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 11:12 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Over at the Guardian's Politics Live, there are the latest Conservative Home net satisfaction ratings for the Cabinet (and others). Theresa May comes bottom, but the top ten (which includes Liam Fox and Priti Patel) shows the overall dearth of talent. Especially since it shows Michael "Mad Mick" Fallon and Michael Gove as joint second.
Gove. Blimey.
He has always polled very well in these surveys - as to why, your guess is as good as mine.

Was JRM in there??

No.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 11:19 am

Fix!!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 11:39 am

In the Times today Sam Coates says that Gavin Barwell, Theresa May’s new chief of staff, “has made contact with the Liberal Democrats to ask for help in getting legislation through parliament”.

On Twitter the Lib Dems have played down the significance of this.

Lib Dem Press Office (@LibDemPress)

This isn't true. They bumped into each other and made small talk. Nothing about working together or deals https://t.co/QOdOiW6T3q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
July 4, 2017

(Politics Live, Guardian)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 11:54 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Over at the Guardian's Politics Live, there are the latest Conservative Home net satisfaction ratings for the Cabinet (and others). Theresa May comes bottom, but the top ten (which includes Liam Fox and Priti Patel) shows the overall dearth of talent. Especially since it shows Michael "Mad Mick" Fallon and Michael Gove as joint second.
Gove. Blimey.
He has always polled very well in these surveys - as to why, your guess is as good as mine.

Was JRM in there??

The ratings are on cabinet members, rather than potential leaders. So unlike the others Gove doesn't have a March rating to compare with. Michael Fallon's third spot is particularly surprising given how useless he was during the election campaign. I guess simply showing up and answering questions (however poorly) is considered impressive for a Tory minister these days!

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 12:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:
In the Times today Sam Coates says that Gavin Barwell, Theresa May’s new chief of staff, “has made contact with the Liberal Democrats to ask for help in getting legislation through parliament”.

On Twitter the Lib Dems have played down the significance of this.

Lib Dem Press Office (@LibDemPress)

This isn't true. They bumped into each other and made small talk. Nothing about working together or deals https://t.co/QOdOiW6T3q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
July 4, 2017

(Politics Live, Guardian)

The story does seem rather thin. Here's an excerpt from the write up in the Times:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b8ca ... 45f3f5d431" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 2:40 pm

Health secretary photographed holding paper that appears to suggest fears of mass exodus from Britain once it leaves the EU
Hard Brexit 'means people fleeing UK', Jeremy Hunt note says

It's not the first time I've seen headlines referring to photographed note contents held by ministers on their way into their gig. Maybe JHunt needed his notes in bold type, large font, in case he got rattled and needed something to say. He may have accidentally held the notes in such a way enabling exposure.

edited to add
It's probably all those things I've written and his wanting attention too.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 2:40 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 3:48 pm

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/pol ... tions/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 3:57 pm

Those lovely Spaniards.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 4:08 pm

I, of course, agree with this.

https://thegerasites.wordpress.com/2017 ... orbyn/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By claiming that the main problem with Corbyn was his electability, which wasn't the issue, the "moderates" have lost for good

From times.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 4:28 pm

Javid blaming local government for Grenfell. All local government. Cheeky, cheeky twat.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 4:58 pm

StephenDolan wrote:Javid blaming local government for Grenfell. All local government. Cheeky, cheeky twat.

And there was me thinking he looked genuinely chastened after his visit there. If he was, it evidently didn't last

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 5:09 pm

For those of you, probably all of you, not following the TdF.

Having seen the incident again, here’s my definitive take on it. Arnaud Demare was making his winning surge for the line with Cavendish directly behind him and the gap between the pair closing.

It was Cavendish’s wheel to take, but Sagan swerved across the road to take Demare’s wheel, sensed Cavendish on his inside and flicked out an elbow to prevent him passing. Shouting in protest at Sagan taking his line, Cavendish had nowhere to go and was promptly sent crashing into the barriers at a top speed of more than 50km per hour.

My colleague Gregg Bakowski, whose dulcet Scouse tones many of you will be familiar with from our Football Weekly podcast, has just wandered over and said: “Baz, d’ya reckon that Belgian fella who led for 200 kilometres all on his own is sitting in the team bus thinking: ‘I did all that and thanks to those two twats nobody’s even mentioning it now.”

It does indeed seem a long, long time ago since poor Guillaume van Keirsbulck weas playing a starring role in what was shaping up to be one of the most boring stages in Tour de France history. I suppose if nothing else, Cavendish’s accident proves that life comes at you fast and things can change in the blink of an eye.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 5:17 pm

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cps ... nurses.png" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 5:22 pm

Afternoon all.

Did we all see this?

Brexit: Vote Leave chief who created £350m NHS lie on bus admits leaving EU could be 'an error'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 22386.html

Mr Cummings’ volte-face came in a late-night Twitter exchange, in which he was asked whether anything could happen to “wish Leave had not won the referendum?”

In reply, he wrote: “Lots! I said before REF was dumb idea, other things shdve been tried 1st. In some possible branches of the future leaving will be an error.”

Last month, Mr Cummings tweeted that MPs who backed Leave must force change on Downing Street and the Department for Exiting the European Union, led by David Davis. “If Leave MPs don't assert themselves to force MANAGEMENT changes on No10/DEXU, Brexit talks = guaranteed debacle as I’ve said for a year,” he wrote.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 5:25 pm

And yes, this was who the exchange with Cummings was with...

David Allen Green‏ @davidallengreen 5m5 minutes ago
More
The @Independent has lifted my exchange with @odysseanproject without any credit: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 22386.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Poor show.

Journalism 2017 - poking around social media for stories...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 5:42 pm

Dan Hannan is getting some stick over this...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Daniel Hannan‏Verified account
@DanielJHannan
Follow
More
Brits invented all the best things: football, TV, Internet, penicillin, DNA, sandwiches, parliament... and the USA. Happy #IndependenceDay.

He really is quite dim...

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 5:50 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:And yes, this was who the exchange with Cummings was with...

David Allen Green‏ @davidallengreen 5m5 minutes ago
More
The @Independent has lifted my exchange with @odysseanproject without any credit: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 22386.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Poor show.
Journalism 2017 - poking around social media for stories...

The original exchange explained by DAG here.
http://jackofkent.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **refitman** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 6:18 pm

gilsey wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:And yes, this was who the exchange with Cummings was with...

David Allen Green‏ @davidallengreen 5m5 minutes ago
More
The @Independent has lifted my exchange with @odysseanproject without any credit: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 22386.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Poor show.
Journalism 2017 - poking around social media for stories...
The original exchange explained by DAG here.
http://jackofkent.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't realise until today that DAG was JoK.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 6:24 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all.

Did we all see this?

Brexit: Vote Leave chief who created £350m NHS lie on bus admits leaving EU could be 'an error'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 22386.html

Mr Cummings’ volte-face came in a late-night Twitter exchange, in which he was asked whether anything could happen to “wish Leave had not won the referendum?”

In reply, he wrote: “Lots! I said before REF was dumb idea, other things shdve been tried 1st. In some possible branches of the future leaving will be an error.”

Last month, Mr Cummings tweeted that MPs who backed Leave must force change on Downing Street and the Department for Exiting the European Union, led by David Davis. “If Leave MPs don't assert themselves to force MANAGEMENT changes on No10/DEXU, Brexit talks = guaranteed debacle as I’ve said for a year,” he wrote.

I posted it last night

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 6:50 pm

http://www.migrantsrights.org.uk/blog/2 ... 7b5d60afa8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Public Interest Law Unit at Lambeth Law Centre have won High Court permission to judicially review a Home Office policy of removing from the UK European Economic Area (EEA) nationals who are rough sleepers.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 6:51 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ins ... 0aba8edd58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Blindness does not stop this beekeeper, this baker and this kayaker from expanding their vision

http://www.bakingblind.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 6:59 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 22726.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 7:06 pm

On the SATs results...nationally 61% achieved expected standard in Reading, Writing and Maths at KS2.

Our school...86%.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 7:19 pm

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lance ... S0140-6736(17" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)30782-1/abstract

"these findings suggest that the weekend effect arises from patient-level differences at admission rather than reduced hospital staffing or services."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 7:30 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 08246.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 7:39 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 7:43 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:I, of course, agree with this.

https://thegerasites.wordpress.com/2017 ... orbyn/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

By claiming that the main problem with Corbyn was his electability, which wasn't the issue, the "moderates" have lost for good

From times.

So, Marxist ignorance - check. Conflating opposition to Israel as anit-semitism, check. Grenfell wasn't political, check. I think that's more than enough to dismiss this piece as yet more narrow bigoted bile from a bilious narrow minded bigot.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 8:23 pm

Leaving the EU: NHS Workforce - [Today] 04 July 2017

Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)
"The truth is that EU staff no longer want to come here. Doctors and nurses are leaving in their droves, and thanks to the abolition of the NHS bursary, our nurses of tomorrow are going to have to pay to train. When will the Secretary of State understand that this staffing crisis has not materialised out of thin air but is directly attributable to his actions and the actions of his Government over the past seven years?"

Jeremy Hunt (South West Surrey) (Tory) Secretary of State for Health
"The hon. Lady may have noticed a little thing called Brexit that happened last year, which is the cause of understandable concern. If she looks at the facts about how many doctors came from the EU to the NHS in the year ending this March, in other words, post-Brexit, she will see that 2,200—[Interruption.] Someone asked about nurses. I happen to have that information..."

http://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/20 ... SWorkforce" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm so angry with JHunt over this latest effort
Read that, he's actually trying to blame and simultaneously credit Brexit for NHS staffing levels
No shame, he's utterly without shame

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 8:24 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:On the SATs results...nationally 61% achieved expected standard in Reading, Writing and Maths at KS2.

Our school...86%.

Wonderful, RogerOThornhill!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 8:37 pm

Comments below the line on this here ought to be priceless

David Cameron calls Tory austerity critics selfish, not compassionate
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... passionate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Former British PM says ministers calling for public sector pay cap to be lifted wanted to spend money they might need in future

What future, Dave?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 8:47 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Dan Hannan is getting some stick over this...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Daniel Hannan‏Verified account
@DanielJHannan
Follow
More
Brits invented all the best things: football, TV, Internet, penicillin, DNA, sandwiches, parliament... and the USA. Happy #IndependenceDay.

He really is quite dim...

Great photographer though. Here's a picture I took of some good old British inventions only yesterday.

: madeindanhannansbritain.jpg (90.05 KiB) Viewed 22052 times

Cheers,
Dan

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 8:51 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ay-sources
Lib Dems may back government on case-by-case basis, say sources
Party would be ‘up for talking’ to Tories about supporting issues such as mental health and housing outside of a formal deal

I thought they'd said they were just chatting about the weather.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 8:56 pm

Well why on earth not eh?

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style ... 23221.html
South Korean barista Lee Kang-bin is pioneering "CreamArt" by drawing intricate designs on the layer of steamed milk that sits atop a coffee.

Mr Kang-bin's astounding creations include miniature imitations of famous paintings such as Vincent Van Gogh’s "The Starry Night" and "The Scream" by Edvard Munch.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 9:02 pm

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/can-investors-sue- ... er-brexit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Until a week ago when people spoke about the Brexit bill, they meant the financial settlement between the EU and the UK. But now, a different bill has made headlines, first in legal blogs, then in the press. According to these reports, investors could sue the UK, seeking compensation for losses arising because of Brexit.

How about a class action against Cameron.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 9:04 pm

Most arbitrators would likely regard Brexit (and its consequences) as a legitimate exercise of regulatory powers by the UK. They would argue that investors’ expectations that the UK stay in the EU are not protected under investment treaties, and so investors cannot demand compensation.

But some arbitrators might disagree. They could refer to case law that regards a fundamental change of the regulatory regime which does not take into account the consequences for investments made under the previous regime as a violation of the state’s obligations. It was under this rationale that Spain was ordered to compensate a British and a Luxembourgois investor for a role-back of its incentives for solar power.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 9:11 pm

Agree with all that, tinyclanger2. Aren't individual citizenship changes Brexit foisted upon people actionable?

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 9:37 pm

I see that the apolitical and impartial James Landale and Robbie Gibb have been interviewed for the post of Theresa May's Director of Communications.

Please, centrist journalists, tell us again how the BBC cannot possibly be biased in favour of the Tory party.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:01 pm

This is an interesting (if convoluted) article -

The ‘golden visa’ deal: ‘We have in effect been selling off British citizenship to the rich’

The little-known immigration arrangement provided British residency in exchange for a £2m investment. Now a fraud case involving a Kazakh billionaire has shed light on how 3,000 wealthy people entered the country under the scheme – with no Home Office checks (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ome-office

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:21 pm

Just in case anyone thought the fishpointer had any kind of shred of decency:

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-a ... ys-cameron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No regrets calling Brexit referendum, says Cameron

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 04 Jul, 2017 10:22 pm

Speaking at a leadership conference in Seoul yesterday, Mr Cameron defended his decision, arguing that the landmark vote in June last year was necessary to seek public consensus on whether to stay in the EU or leave after being a member for over 40 years.

Bollocks. He was a coward.