Monday 10th July 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 8:15 am

Morning all.

This pretty much sums up the latest news...

Jane Merrick‏Verified account
@janemerrick23
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April: PM calls an election because she says Labour & LibDems are meddling in Brexit.
July: May asks Labour & LibDems to meddle in Brexit

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 8:59 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

This pretty much sums up the latest news...

Jane Merrick‏Verified account
@janemerrick23
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April: PM calls an election because she says Labour & LibDems are meddling in Brexit.
July: May asks Labour & LibDems to meddle in Brexit

Morning all.

Yes, it's the Tories mess, they can own it all until the next GE. Damien Green in have cake and eat it mode earlier.

Can you imagine the howls of laughter from the rwp if a LABOUR pm just elected came out with this idea?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 9:47 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The repeal bill, due to be published on Thursday, will be a historic piece of legislation reversing the 1972 European Communities Act that took Britain into the bloc, as well as adopting all existing EU standards to ensure a smooth transition.

The prime minister has promised there will be no watering down of workers’ rights or environmental standards, but opposition MPs and rebel Tories fighting for a soft Brexit are likely to try to amend the bill to provide extra safeguards during its passage through parliament.

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The bill will be laid on Thursday but will not be debated until the autumn, when there are expected to be tussles in the House of Commons, Lords and devolved chambers.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:11 am

Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu

The repeal bill, due to be published on Thursday, will be a historic piece of legislation reversing the 1972 European Communities Act that took Britain into the bloc, as well as adopting all existing EU standards to ensure a smooth transition.

The prime minister has promised there will be no watering down of workers’ rights or environmental standards, but opposition MPs and rebel Tories fighting for a soft Brexit are likely to try to amend the bill to provide extra safeguards during its passage through parliament.

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The bill will be laid on Thursday but will not be debated until the autumn, when there are expected to be tussles in the House of Commons, Lords and devolved chambers.

There was muttering of sunset clauses a while ago, possibly by Michael Green, are these still likely?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:28 am

StephenDolan wrote:
Willow904 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu

The repeal bill, due to be published on Thursday, will be a historic piece of legislation reversing the 1972 European Communities Act that took Britain into the bloc, as well as adopting all existing EU standards to ensure a smooth transition.

The prime minister has promised there will be no watering down of workers’ rights or environmental standards, but opposition MPs and rebel Tories fighting for a soft Brexit are likely to try to amend the bill to provide extra safeguards during its passage through parliament.

Advertisement

The bill will be laid on Thursday but will not be debated until the autumn, when there are expected to be tussles in the House of Commons, Lords and devolved chambers.
There was muttering of sunset clauses a while ago, possibly by Michael Green, are these still likely?

I certainly hope not. We don't have the civil service resources to work to any kind of "timed out" deadline. EU laws need to remain as they are, as UK laws, until Parliament is ready to actively change them, preferably on the back of an election manifesto mandate. It will take Tory rebels to stop the power grab implicit in hitherto announced government intentions re the repeal bill. When the bill is published on Thursday we'll find out how much sway the Tory Europhile rebels now have and how far they are prepared to go. As long as Labour holds firm on opposing "Henry VIII" type powers and Tory Europhile rebels back them, the "Great" Repeal Bill can be reduced to a technical instrument of no real consequence.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:41 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

This pretty much sums up the latest news...

Jane Merrick‏Verified account
@janemerrick23
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April: PM calls an election because she says Labour & LibDems are meddling in Brexit.
July: May asks Labour & LibDems to meddle in Brexit

Jane Merrick actually tweeting something sensible really sums this up tbh.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:43 am

StephenDolan wrote:Morning all.

Yes, it's the Tories mess, they can own it all until the next GE. Damien Green in have cake and eat it mode earlier.

Can you imagine the howls of laughter from the rwp if a LABOUR pm just elected came out with this idea?

Yes, exactly. Tories have irresponsibly led country and people to this point in time and their leadership inadequate. Should Labour demand Tories call another election if Tory minority government is unable to lead? That may not be possible or advisable. I don't know.

The coalition government headed by Attlee and Churchill - did people, country and Labour benefit from that coalition government? Are conditions amenable for any success in an arrangement of this sort now? Is the comparison between the country during wartime and now too dissimilar for practical use?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 10:50 am

I inexplicably woke thinking about Attlee and Churchill this morning
Good-morning, everyone

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 11:26 am

Saw this last night - where do you even start with this nonsense?

John Redwood‏ @johnredwood Jul 5
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We collected 55% more last year at the 19% Corporation tax rate than they did at 28% in 2009-10.

One could start by pointing out that CT receipts dropped by £7.2bn in 2009/10 from the previous year. Wonder why that was?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 11:30 am

Good morfternoon.

Teachers' pay settlement to be published later today (Sky News).

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 11:40 am

And besides which he's even got the rate wrong...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ration-tax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

At Summer Budget 2015, the government announced legislation setting the Corporation Tax main rate (for all profits except ring fence profits) at 19% for the years starting the 1 April 2017, 2018 and 2019 and at 18% for the year starting 1 April 2020. At Budget 2016, the government announced a further reduction to the Corporation Tax main rate (for all profits except ring fence profits) for the year starting 1 April 2020, setting the rate at 17%.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 11:45 am

Looks like some interesting times ahead - all of a sudden many people are going to claim to have known all about Euratom...

Nick Boles MP‏Verified account @NickBoles Jul 9
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Compelling argument about Euratom by @edvaizey and @RachelReevesMP. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07 ... allies-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … We need a #sensiblebrexit not a stupid one.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 11:58 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Looks like some interesting times ahead - all of a sudden many people are going to claim to have known all about Euratom...

Nick Boles MP‏Verified account @NickBoles Jul 9
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Compelling argument about Euratom by @edvaizey and @RachelReevesMP. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07 ... allies-eu/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; … We need a #sensiblebrexit not a stupid one.

There's an un-paywalled article here:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 32136.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Usual cries of 'scaremongering' from the Brexitters btl).

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 12:02 pm

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: Capture.PNG (42.11 KiB) Viewed 18586 times

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 12:38 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 55566.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Today, therefore, I am writing to give effect to the democratic decision of the people of the United Kingdom. I hereby notify the European Council in accordance with Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Union. In addition, in accordance with the same Article 50(2) as applied by Article 106a of the Treaty Establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, I hereby notify the European Council of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Atomic Energy Community. References in this letter to the European Union should therefore be taken to include a reference to the European Atomic Energy Community.

This is the extract from the Article 50 letter which shows we have already triggered the process for leaving Eurotom. The decision to leave has therefore been made. Whether we had to leave at the same time as leaving the EU, I don't know, but that's what we've done. Perhaps the pros and cons should have been debated in Parliament before the notification of withdrawal was given? Just a thought. We haven't to date, in a similar way, notified our intention to leave the single market, though, either because a) leaving the EU means we leave automatically or b) because that decision has not yet been made - take your pick. No one seems to actually know for a certainty.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 1:15 pm

Any official Labour response to May's "offer" yet??

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 1:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Any official Labour response to May's "offer" yet??

It's my understanding Theresa May's speech asking for help is tomorrow.
The entire article is worth reading.

Theresa May will move to bolster her precarious position in Downing Street with an unprecedented invitation to Labour to help her create policies for a post-Brexit Britain as she attempts to quell a Tory plot to replace her. Speaking on the anniversary of her first week in Downing Street and amid talk of a Conservative bid to oust her before the end of the year...

The speech on Tuesday, which will be seen as an attempt to relaunch her faltering premiership, will then make an unusual plea for cross-party working, challenging MPs across the spectrum to “come forward with your own views and ideas about how we can tackle these challenges as a country”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... o-oust-her" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(cJA emphasis)
I've every confidence the speech will consist of Theresa May insisting 'everything wrong with Tory government is because the Labour party'.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 2:09 pm

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ed/euratom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 2:31 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ed/euratom

Leaving Euratom will have three key consequences for the UK.
Firstly, it will have more difficulty ensuring a long-term supply of nuclear fuel.
Secondly, it risks an immediate shortage of medical isotopes.
Finally, it may no longer enjoy access to research facilities and funding.

Post by **adam** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 2:44 pm

citizenJA wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ed/euratom

Leaving Euratom will have three key consequences for the UK.
Firstly, it will have more difficulty ensuring a long-term supply of nuclear fuel.
Secondly, it risks an immediate shortage of medical isotopes.
Finally, it may no longer enjoy access to research facilities and funding.

That page, and the link menu down the left hand side, is a very good reference resource for what's going on...

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 2:47 pm

Willow904 wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 55566.html

Today, therefore, I am writing to give effect to the democratic decision of the people of the United Kingdom. I hereby notify the European Council in accordance with Article 50(2) of the Treaty on European Union of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Union. In addition, in accordance with the same Article 50(2) as applied by Article 106a of the Treaty Establishing the European Atomic Energy Community, I hereby notify the European Council of the United Kingdom’s intention to withdraw from the European Atomic Energy Community. References in this letter to the European Union should therefore be taken to include a reference to the European Atomic Energy Community.
This is the extract from the Article 50 letter which shows we have already triggered the process for leaving Eurotom. The decision to leave has therefore been made. Whether we had to leave at the same time as leaving the EU, I don't know, but that's what we've done. Perhaps the pros and cons should have been debated in Parliament before the notification of withdrawal was given? Just a thought. We haven't to date, in a similar way, notified our intention to leave the single market, though, either because a) leaving the EU means we leave automatically or b) because that decision has not yet been made - take your pick. No one seems to actually know for a certainty.

The morons saying we need to stay in Euratom are the same fools who voted for art 50 without conditions.

Only Ken Clarke, Caroline Lucas. seven Lib Dems and the 47 Lab MPs who defied the 3 line whip did that.

Too late now. We just have to hope some kind of equivalent will be agreed to.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 2:50 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... wn-britain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Clergy to ditch their robes in further sign of dress-down Britain

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 4:13 pm

I see that Jeremy Corbyn is doing as adam advised -

Corbyn tells May she should read Labour manifesto if her government running out of ideas (Politics Live, Guardian)

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 4:22 pm

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... 769671.amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Outrage after Tory MP is 'caught on tape using shocking racist slur

It's not a phrase I'm even familiar with. Goodness knows how you manage to use it "unintentionally".

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 4:26 pm

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
·
2m

Pressure on already for May to withdraw the whip from Morris - another one off the majority if she does

Another one? Who else have we lost?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 4:31 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tte-cooper" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/fe ... -about-men" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 4:44 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/20 ... rson-group" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Recruitment giant's tax scheme liquidated after HMRC asks questions

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 5:17 pm

Just 100 companies responsible for 71% of global emissions, study says
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable ... ate-change" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Page 6 of the PDF linked below
'Oil and gas company product portfolio mix and GHG emissions intensity'

The Carbon Majors Database
CDP Carbon Majors Report 2017
100 fossil fuel producers and nearly 1 trillion tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions
https://b8f65cb373b1b7b15feb-c70d8ead6c ... t-2017.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 5:19 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tte-cooper

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/fe ... -about-men" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"All men are bad" always has been and always will be a bad take, sorry.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 5:53 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tte-cooper

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/fe ... -about-men" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"All men are bad" always has been and always will be a bad take, sorry.

The article is about women subjected to abuse because they're women. Moore didn't write what you've got in quotes and I didn't come away thinking she suggested it.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 5:58 pm

Anne Marie Morris has had the whip suspended. Don't know for what duration.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 6:03 pm

Willow904 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... 769671.amp

Outrage after Tory MP is 'caught on tape using shocking racist slur
It's not a phrase I'm even familiar with. Goodness knows how you manage to use it "unintentionally".

I'm familiar with it - although it's fallen into disuse (for obvious reasons) over the years. Don't know its origins, though. "Fly in the ointment" is what most people would naturally say.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 6:07 pm

citizenJA wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... tte-cooper

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/fe ... -about-men" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"All men are bad" always has been and always will be a bad take, sorry.
The article is about women subjected to abuse because they're women. Moore didn't write what you've got in quotes and I didn't come away thinking she suggested it.

She actually says in one that she now "hates men". That is completely uncalled for tbh.

I will admit to also mistrusting her because of her often very bad takes on Labour party matters in the last few years.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 6:18 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:She actually says in one that she now "hates men". That is completely uncalled for tbh.

I will admit to also mistrusting her because of her often very bad takes on Labour party matters in the last few years.

(cJA edit)
I understand and agree it's not okay, it's not called for.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 6:35 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... 769671.amp

Outrage after Tory MP is 'caught on tape using shocking racist slur
It's not a phrase I'm even familiar with. Goodness knows how you manage to use it "unintentionally".
I'm familiar with it - although it's fallen into disuse (for obvious reasons) over the years. Don't know its origins, though. "Fly in the ointment" is what most people would naturally say.

I learned it meant something not declared, something of value kept hidden
I didn't get taught what the word meant at the time I learned the saying

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 6:40 pm

Teachers' pay to remain capped at 1%, DfE announces
Government says it recognises hard work of teachers but pay increases will be in line with public sector policy
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -announces" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Saving lives, protecting, teaching people, extinguishing fires, maintaining society, making Tory donors' existence and property possible
Tories are the reason we can't have nice things

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:27 pm

The replies to this...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:27 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... emark.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Willow904 wrote:http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... 769671.amp

Outrage after Tory MP is 'caught on tape using shocking racist slur
It's not a phrase I'm even familiar with. Goodness knows how you manage to use it "unintentionally".

I'm familiar with it - although it's fallen into disuse (for obvious reasons) over the years. Don't know its origins, though. "Fly in the ointment" is what most people would naturally say.

First heard it in Rotherham, early '90s,
in a telephone message along the lines 'tell Fred, I've found the ...:, in regards to a missing, mislabelled steel coil.' This shocked all present with the exception of 'Fred' who was late 50's, from Barnsley, and was surprised it caused affront.
Really not something I'd expect an mp to be saying.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:38 pm

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... t-outburst" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:41 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... t-outburst

Bush can be very good, and he is here.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:51 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:52 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... t-outburst
Bush can be very good, and he is here.

9. I wonder what the per-word rate at Spiked is.

I assume we will, at some point, get Brendan O'Fuckwit's take on this - probably "Well, it's not so bad really..."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 7:54 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Primary school children lose marks in Sats tests for misshapen commas

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 8:01 pm

Anyone watching Nadal - Muller - this is epic!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 8:02 pm

neighbours installed new fire alarms
testing them, randomly, repeatedly

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 8:04 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... t-outburst
Bush can be very good, and he is here.

9. I wonder what the per-word rate at Spiked is.

I assume we will, at some point, get Brendan O'Fuckwit's take on this - probably "Well, it's not so bad really..."

Rupert "Spamface" Myers seems to have beaten him to it.........

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 8:08 pm

Ha ha,crowd adjustment to stop reflection.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 10 Jul, 2017 8:11 pm

Although all other European postwar communities were merged into the EEC and then the EU, Euroatom has maintained its legally distinct nature and is the only remaining community organization that is independent from the European Union and therefore outside the regulatory control of the European Parliament. (Wikipedia - my emphasis)

So I'm confused.