Monday 24th July 2017

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 3:58 pm

so Schengen is dismissed based on.....well, nothing

All EU countries apart from Ireland and UK are legally obliged to join (not all have yet though) and the non-EU participants in the SM have all bern obliged to join

Now it seems that the UK can continue as before according to you

It would also solve another issue which is the snomaly of the Common Travel Area between Ireland and the UK ehich may be something else the EU will not be happy with....UK treating one type of EU citizen differently than another....not something they are fans of..see Switzerland vs Croatia recently

But everything will be okay wont it because....?

If the EU make Schengen a red line as it is for everyone else would you accept it?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:03 pm

I didn't say "the UK can continue as before".

I said the EU would get a price- some technical changes to rules over the City could be worth billions and billions, and pass pretty much under the radar. Then of course there's the ongoing advantage the EU has of being able to set rules that chip away at the UK in the City and other high value industries.

I said Schengen isn't going to be a problematic precedent for the EU.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:09 pm

Barry Gardiner‏ Verified account
@BarryGardiner
"No to the single market
No to the customs union
No to the European Court."
& perhaps Bill Cash might have added
"No to prosperity & jobs"

From December 2016.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:11 pm

Afternoon all. Been a busy weekend.

It's been an interesting couple of days for the Labour Party. Glad to read some of the more infrequent posters, hope they stay around to not just have a pop at Labour.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:11 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... free-trade" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

International Trade Secretary's speech at the AEI during his US visit for the first meeting of the UK-US Trade and Investment Working Group.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:15 pm

It's going to be interesting in the mail and the express.

Being anti GM and the changes to food safety versus being pro Brexit.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:16 pm

how do you know it isnt going to be a problem.....been speaking to Barnier have you?

It could be an issue and may arise from the Common Travel Area which will not survive in my view based on how the EU look at these things

Also we would sacrifice economic benefits for Schengen in your scenario........but that is alright as it is 'under the radar"

Sometimes it feels as if I am talking to Brexiters who respond to scenarios with opinions stated as fact

Just admit it is really hard to find a way out and with so little concrete information this continued ranting after every comment made by Labour politicians on the subject is not really helpful

As a number of posters on this have not been very supportive of Labour anyway then I suppose it is to be expected to use this as a new way of criticism despite being so wrong about electability. TE will be back soon to add his wisdom

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:26 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Jeremy Corbyn: “wholesale” EU immigration has destroyed conditions for British workers
The Labour leader has told Andrew Marr that his party wants to leave the single market.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/st ... ns-british" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That article is about as deceitful as it can be. The quote is false, the article highly selective, bearing little resemblance to the intervview itself. That seems to be the current strategy, lie about corbyn and then get outraged. I see the usual suspects on here doing it, and I have just remonstrated with the leader of my party for tweeting it.

I voted remain, I would again, but we lost. It was a referendum, that simply cannot be ignored if we want our democracy to survive. I hate it, but that is the simple truth.

Frankly, those on here who bleat the most about it, seem simply to use it as a stick to bash corbyn rather than any principled stance. I mean there is literally no criticism of the people actually in charge of the brexit process today, simply an incessant whine about the leader of the opposition. It's almost as if they have an agenda beyond brexit, and its remarkably striking that the attack lines peddled in the right wing press (Mail sun and toryraph) seem to jump so easily from their keyboards into this forum.

Our membership of the EU is over. Access to the SM and customs union has to be negotiated. That is the realistic situation we are in, trying to turn the clock back to before the referendum cant happen. Of course, on here I see little real care about our standing in Europe and how we realistically move forward, just the same old circular attacks on the leader of the opposition. And its the same people who have been consitsently wrong about pretty much every aspect of our politics in the last three years.

As I say, it's almost as if they have an agenda.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:27 pm

@RogerOThornhill
Please give my love to your family

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:37 pm

just a point on Schengen.....I had the same response from a Brexiter elsewhere than I saw from Tubby earlier

Basically, it won't apply and we will find a way around it

Their response was equslly unconvincing

Also, it is a possibility to comply with the EU requirements on the status of their citizens that we may need to introduce a universal id card system? Non EU residents have one already but if there is a decision to make EU citizens have one as well then it will have to be generally applicable

These are solutions to some of the problems that may arise and it could test Remainers resolve as much as Brexiters

I am okay with both Schengen and id cards by the way

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:54 pm

Willow904 wrote:I didn't get to the end of Owen Jones' "why we must support leave" piece. Does he actually support leaving the single market? Or is it all about how a poorly drafted and implemented referendum trumps all other democracy and negates our democratic right to oppose? Because I'm not an MP. I didn't promise to implement the result of the referendum.
---
It's one thing to support leaving and giving positive reasons for it, rather another to tell people they have to support it just because other people voted for it. Other people voted to keep FPTP, do I have to support that too? Or can I continue to support efforts to introduce PR? I get that by voting for the referendum MPs put themselves in an impossible situation, but I have little sympathy. They didn't have to support David Cameron's flawed referendum.
---
...agrees leaving the EU is a bad idea but people are being unreasonable by opposing it is a little bit desperate IMO.

(cJA edit)

In order to preserve the legitimacy and constitutional integrity of UK government we're in the preposterous position of having to do what a former PM said we'd have to do should 'Leave' receive more votes than 'Remain' as a result of that PM's jackass referendum. I can acknowledge this as almost adequate justification for current 'Brexit' action. If that's the reason we got to do this thing are the consequences of 'Brexit' less harmful to people and nation than binning 'Brexit' potentially risking UK constitutional integrity?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 4:56 pm

I think 'Brexit' is too harmful to nation and people.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:16 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:--- I'm rationalizing my vote as a vote for Carwyn Jones, just about. But I should have voted Lib Dem.

Umunna might have turned a corner. We might get a couple of others waiting their time. But it looks pretty awful.

(cJA edit)

Splitting non-Tory votes would've done nothing but hand Theresa May a larger Tory majority rather than doom current minority Tory government.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:18 pm

Wouldn't you just know it? Corbyn answers a question about freedom of movement with some waffle about "wholesale importation" (of what? Iron ore? Lamb chops?) and carries on ignoring actual data on the effect of freedom of movement. It's the MSM and Blairites being mischievous!

You know what I think it was? I think it was Farage stuff. Get asked about Freedom of Movement, and you go off on one about foreign criminals. So Jez goes off on some completely atypical gangmaster riff.

He must know lots of people have "got the wrong end of the stick" by now, right? We can expect him to set the record straight then.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:19 pm

Totally disagree I maintain my right to criticise any leader and/or position as I see fit,people can make their own minds up as to legitimacy or not.Equally about lists of deemed traitors and veracity with regard to source.Unless continued "democracy" intentions leads to any deviation being penalised by enforced listening to Kylie Minogue records on a loop or some such,which might be even too much for me,I will continue to do so.

Not wholly serious.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:20 pm

Yeah, none of us "bleating" on here have any record of being pro-European, have we? We couldn't possibly be unhappy about jobs and GDP being pissed up the wall.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:23 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:--- I'm rationalizing my vote as a vote for Carwyn Jones, just about. But I should have voted Lib Dem.

Umunna might have turned a corner. We might get a couple of others waiting their time. But it looks pretty awful.
(cJA edit)

Splitting non-Tory votes would've done nothing but hand Theresa May a larger Tory majority rather than doom current minority Tory government.

Labour had enough votes in my constituency. My MP immediately popped up on TV and acted like Labour voters had endorsed everything in the manifesto, including Hard Brexit.

I suppose I did, really.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:27 pm

I'm now seeing a Corbyn defender on Twitter saying in fact Corbyn was talking about workers rights. Funny, I'd got the impression from him over the years that we ought to fix that at home.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:50 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Yeah, none of us "bleating" on here have any record of being pro-European, have we? We couldn't possibly be unhappy about jobs and GDP being pissed up the wall.

All of us on here seem to be unhappy about the brexit result and GDP and jobs being pissed up against the wall. Only some of us on here want to use that as a stick to unendingly beat up on the people least responsible for the referendum being called, the result, or the subsequent clusterfuck it has caused, rather than the actual culprits.

The whining is not designed to change people's position on brexit or the EU, it's not designed to criticise or challenge those in charge of brexit, its simply a continuation of the attacks on corbyn and his politics. It's laughably transparent and pathetic.

And, most frustratingly for those of us who actually really do want as close a relationship with the EU as possible, it is clearly counterproductive in the current climate; it is entrenching brexiteeers and alienating remainers. But then again the purpose isn't to get a good brexit, the purpose is to attack corbyn, so...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 5:59 pm

I like cooperation
disagreement is fine
successful resolution of differences is a skill requiring practice
I won't square off against people I've no fundamental problems with
Generally speaking, Tory policy is fundamentally harmful for a lot of people
Labour are mostly okay
Labour leadership's recent communication regarding Brexit alarms
We'll work it out
Practice respectfully disagreeing

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:01 pm

citizenJA wrote:@RogerOThornhill
Please give my love to your family

Thank you.

Quick update for those interested - she was admitted this morning after being given the choice of "go home with anti-sickness drugs and then maybe have to come back to A&E anyway or we'll admit you now". Easy choice. Let them try and work out what's wrong. Went to see her again tonight and she's a bit more comfortable. There was something on the scan that was a slight cause for concern (which also corresponded to a pain she had) so they'll see what they can find.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:12 pm

Thanks for update.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:13 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:I'm now seeing a Corbyn defender on Twitter saying in fact Corbyn was talking about workers rights. Funny, I'd got the impression from him over the years that we ought to fix that at home.

It's a good point
E-mail and/or post this point to Corbyn, seriously
I trust the Labour leader enough to pay attention

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:14 pm

Reafing some of this today has helped ne understand why so many people voted for Brexit....

All I have seen is moaning and whining about Corbyn from some posters - funnily self-admitted as to supporting other parties - but with no attempt to look at solutions to the current predicament

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:21 pm

Some,as is their right.of course there is a danger of (mis) assuming/interpreting other "users" positions.I would suggest a bit disingenous about the other party thing,given prior and indeed,continued supporting of other parties,which equally is their right.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:22 pm

In relation to Corbyn.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:25 pm

What do I know.

Signed Bsc(Hons) in tribal immoral unthinking .(Distinction)

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:29 pm

Temulkar wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Yeah, none of us "bleating" on here have any record of being pro-European, have we? We couldn't possibly be unhappy about jobs and GDP being pissed up the wall.
All of us on here seem to be unhappy about the brexit result and GDP and jobs being pissed up against the wall. Only some of us on here want to use that as a stick to unendingly beat up on the people least responsible for the referendum being called, the result, or the subsequent clusterfuck it has caused, rather than the actual culprits.

The whining is not designed to change people's position on brexit or the EU, it's not designed to criticise or challenge those in charge of brexit, its simply a continuation of the attacks on corbyn and his politics. It's laughably transparent and pathetic.

And, most frustratingly for those of us who actually really do want as close a relationship with the EU as possible, it is clearly counterproductive in the current climate; it is entrenching brexiteeers and alienating remainers. But then again the purpose isn't to get a good brexit, the purpose is to attack corbyn, so...

Attacking somebody for bad policy and rhetoric. Fancy that! And yes, lots of us doing it were against Corbyn all along- not least because we saw the problem with his history on this very issue.

I don't at all recognize this "you lot are entrenching attitudes". That sounds like the sort of "stop ramming it down people's throats" nonsense that was chucked at gay rights advocates. And unlike gay rights, there's a very particular clock ticking on Brexit.

And I think lots of the whiners are trying to change opinion. They want Corbyn and Labour to change to position, then use their campaigning power to get a good result in the Single Market.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:30 pm

it is pertinent when posters come on here and portray themselves as objective when they arent

I am a Labour supporter snd am not particularly objective about Theresa May

Most of the posts are about how bad the leader is and selectively quoting in order to continue the same arguments made before June 8th

No mention is made of those actually negotiating or a desire to address some of the difficulties that face the Remain side as much as Brexit

I have seen exactly the same response today from a Remainer that I got from a Leaver...at least the latter doesnt exude the arrogance and sense of superiority as the former

As I said the approach of some posters on here helps explain ehy people still have not shown any inclination to dramatically change thrir position

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:34 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Reafing some of this today has helped ne understand why so many people voted for Brexit....

All I have seen is moaning and whining about Corbyn from some posters - funnily self-admitted as to supporting other parties - but with no attempt to look at solutions to the current predicament

I've got a solution. Norway. I can't guarantee it, but I thought I made a case why it would be acceptable to the EU.

How does that first bit work? Did the people in my road think "I don't like him, fancy metropolitan, it's Brexit for me!"

That's Brendon O'Neiil stuff.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:46 pm

And I think lots of the whiners are trying to change opinion. They want Corbyn and Labour to change to position, then use their campaigning power to get a good result in the Single Market

Well they are doing a shit job of it arent they?

I am more inclined to go the othercway after reading yours and Hugos posts today

And what does that final phrase mean 'get a good result in the single market'

It means nothing and I will be very surprisef if anyone changes their views based on the minutaie of the Single Market

You keep saying Labours position is untenable but at the same time you cant see why some of us find what you want to be unrealistic as well.....it could be none of us really know what the EU and the British electorate will accept until we approach the end game

Just to emphasise what i mean

You want the SM and the CU and pay for the priviledge (not to mention potential Schengen and other things lurking in the background). I wouldnt like to be the person selling that to the electorate at the moment.....

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 6:48 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Reafing some of this today has helped ne understand why so many people voted for Brexit....

All I have seen is moaning and whining about Corbyn from some posters - funnily self-admitted as to supporting other parties - but with no attempt to look at solutions to the current predicament
I've got a solution. Norway. I can't guarantee it, but I thought I made a case why it would be acceptable to the EU.

How does that first bit work? Did the people in my road think "I don't like him, fancy metropolitan, it's Brexit for me!"

That's Brendon O'Neiil stuff.

Norway, so no deal on agriculture and fisheries. No Customs Union and no say in the rules.....Schengen as well. No passporting either

Or do you mean Norway but other things as well and some bits left off so essentially not Norway

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:04 pm

Politics. Government is public service, communities organised and administered even-handedly and effectively. It's not personal. It's communal work. Collective endeavours fall apart when individuals are too singled out in public life. Personal, private lives happen in appropriate spaces. Professional behaviour and standards are necessary in order to achieve goals.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:10 pm

I think Tubby Isaacs is a person with legitimate concerns not a person with a personal axe to grind against the Labour party leader. Tubby Isaacs has appropriately communicated specific problems with Labour Brexit policy.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:11 pm

HindleA wrote:What do I know.

Signed Bsc(Hons) in tribal immoral unthinking .(Distinction)

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:12 pm

citizenJA wrote:I think Tubby Isaacs is a person with legitimate concerns not a person with a personal axe to grind against the Labour party leader. Tubby Isaacs has appropriately communicated specific problems with Labour Brexit policy.

I don't agree

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:17 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I think Tubby Isaacs is a person with legitimate concerns not a person with a personal axe to grind against the Labour party leader. Tubby Isaacs has appropriately communicated specific problems with Labour Brexit policy.
I don't agree

Okay but I think Tubby Isaacs is too practical to waste time on political grudges.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:18 pm

citizenJA wrote:I think Tubby Isaacs is a person with legitimate concerns not a person with a personal axe to grind against the Labour party leader. Tubby Isaacs has appropriately communicated specific problems with Labour Brexit policy.

I don't, I see no objectivity whatsoever, merely attack Corbyn all the time. Same as Hugo and others, and it's their right of course, but its also my right to call it for what it is: bitter centrists who have lost every political argument in the last decade determined to do as much damage to the labour brand as possible rather than be proven wrong again. It was the same before the election, trash labour and hope to get rid of corbyn, and it backfired spectacularly, as is the current use brexit to attack corbyn incessantly. The electorate aren't listening, and why should they when the whole approach reeks of bitter sneering, arrogance and deceit.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:26 pm

am not even going to bother

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:28 pm

...the UK government’s recent transport investment strategy virtually ignores the greatest infrastructure programme the world has ever seen.
...led by China...a plan to create a massive economic zone connecting Asia, Europe and Africa through a network of roads, ports, bridges, tunnels and pipelines.

https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... plan-peril" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How come we can't have nice things?

Post by **refitman** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:28 pm

Some good news from 38 Degrees:

After months and months of hard work, a group of 38 Degrees members in Essex have saved their hospital’s A&E. They proved to NHS bosses that the plan to downgrade Broomfield Accident & Emergency department was unpopular and dangerous. Now the plan has been scrapped.

Here's how they did it:

November: Andy from Chelmsford sprung into action when he heard about the threat to Broomfield A&E. He couldn't accept that people in a life-threatening emergency would be forced to take a longer, riskier drive to another hospital. So he started a petition on the 38 Degrees website and set up a Facebook page.

December: Andy's petition had gathered thousands of supporters already! Many of them wanted to roll up their sleeves too, so together they set up petition stalls to get even more signatures.

January to March: Andy and the other campaigners organised a march for hundreds of people. Lots of other people emailed the NHS bosses, demanding they scrap their plans, and they delivered the 22,000-strong petition.

April to June: They organised lots more petition stalls and public meetings, including a hustings to quiz council candidates on what they'd do to save the A&E. The campaign kept hitting the front pages of local newspapers, and loads of people wrote in to share why the A&E matters to them.

Last Friday: NHS bosses announce that the A&E will be saved! NHS boss Claire Panniker said that it was the "significant concerns" of so many people that made it happen - that's the 30,000 people who supported Andy's campaign.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:28 pm

citizenJA wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:I think Tubby Isaacs is a person with legitimate concerns not a person with a personal axe to grind against the Labour party leader. Tubby Isaacs has appropriately communicated specific problems with Labour Brexit policy.
I don't agree
Okay but I think Tubby Isaacs is too practical to waste time on political grudges.

'too practical'? what does that mean?

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:32 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Temulkar wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Yeah, none of us "bleating" on here have any record of being pro-European, have we? We couldn't possibly be unhappy about jobs and GDP being pissed up the wall.
All of us on here seem to be unhappy about the brexit result and GDP and jobs being pissed up against the wall. Only some of us on here want to use that as a stick to unendingly beat up on the people least responsible for the referendum being called, the result, or the subsequent clusterfuck it has caused, rather than the actual culprits.

The whining is not designed to change people's position on brexit or the EU, it's not designed to criticise or challenge those in charge of brexit, its simply a continuation of the attacks on corbyn and his politics. It's laughably transparent and pathetic.

And, most frustratingly for those of us who actually really do want as close a relationship with the EU as possible, it is clearly counterproductive in the current climate; it is entrenching brexiteeers and alienating remainers. But then again the purpose isn't to get a good brexit, the purpose is to attack corbyn, so...
Attacking somebody for bad policy and rhetoric. Fancy that! And yes, lots of us doing it were against Corbyn all along- not least because we saw the problem with his history on this very issue.

I don't at all recognize this "you lot are entrenching attitudes". That sounds like the sort of "stop ramming it down people's throats" nonsense that was chucked at gay rights advocates. And unlike gay rights, there's a very particular clock ticking on Brexit.

And I think lots of the whiners are trying to change opinion. They want Corbyn and Labour to change to position, then use their campaigning power to get a good result in the Single Market.

What the fuck does gay rights have to do with anything here? what sort of nonsensical bullshit is that? As someone who has always been an advocate for gay rights, I find that both insulting and demeaning.

When you are trying to persuade someone in an argument, its best not to lie, insult, misrepresent, refuse to listen to counter arguments, throw up ridiculous straw men and get faux outraged, and incessantly repeat the same circular arguments ignoring all else. That doesnt persuade, it entrenches. Stonewall demonstrated the paucity of homophobic arguments by persuading, not insulting, misrepresenting, peddling lies, and refusing to engage; The gay rights movement used exactly the opposite tactics to your chosen method, Tubby. If they had taken your stance we would still see people being arrested for sexuality.

And just as a point, I'm not trying to persuade here. I'm pointing out the utterly shameless bullshit being peddled. There is no point in trying to persuade, we have all tried that, but there is every point in demonstrating their motives are corbyn driven not brexit driven, corbyn driven not good of the country driven.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:33 pm

Hi,cja fellow totally conveniently ignored,partner.Shall we form a breakaway group.Sister in law is secretary of the Brussels Labour Party a bleater on the Brexit thing,whining away in traitorous style after helping Labour and various leaders,knows Ed quite well the traitorous cur.Met Starmer a few times in obvious enjoined immorality.There is now a majority against the bedroom tax and other fascistically intended policy,which of course ,is.an unhelpful description because they actually are and same choice as fit and able utterations are only eugenistic if you can't see the bloody obvious.All such things are despite Brexit which is heartwarming,rant contd on page 234.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:37 pm

If Tubby Isaacs is concerned about a thing, it's not likely initiated by personal malice

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:39 pm

citizenJA wrote:If Tubby Isaacs is concerned about a thing, it's not likely initiated by personal malice

Yet he incessantly focuses on one personality to the exclusion of all else in the situation, so...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:41 pm

HindleA wrote:Hi,cja fellow totally conveniently ignored,partner.Shall we form a breakaway group.Sister in law is secretary of the Brussels Labour Party a bleater on the Brexit thing,whining away in traitorous style after helping Labour and various leaders,knows Ed quite well the traitorous cur.Met Starmer a few times in obvious enjoined immorality.There is now a majority against the bedroom tax and other fascistically intended policy,which of course ,is.an unhelpful description because they actually are and same choice as fit and able utterations are only eugenistic if you can't see the bloody obvious.All such things are despite Brexit which is heartwarming,rant contd on page 234.

No breakaway groups - we're staying together or we're staying together, goddamn it

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:42 pm

<light-hearted smiley face icon here>

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 24 Jul, 2017 7:42 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:Reafing some of this today has helped ne understand why so many people voted for Brexit....

All I have seen is moaning and whining about Corbyn from some posters - funnily self-admitted as to supporting other parties - but with no attempt to look at solutions to the current predicament
I've got a solution. Norway. I can't guarantee it, but I thought I made a case why it would be acceptable to the EU.

How does that first bit work? Did the people in my road think "I don't like him, fancy metropolitan, it's Brexit for me!"

That's Brendon O'Neiil stuff.
Norway, so no deal on agriculture and fisheries. No Customs Union and no say in the rules.....Schengen as well. No passporting either

Or do you mean Norway but other things as well and some bits left off so essentially not Norway

I'd be delighted to be in Schengen, but I don't think it'll be conceded easily or pushed too hard by the EU, for reasons I've said.

Being outside the Customs Union but in the EEA means that Norway only has Customs checks for stuff originating outside the EU. That's our best hope of doing right by Ireland, and having a low key border, like Norway and Switzerland do.

The CAP isn't generally considered something it's disastrous not to be in.