Tuesday 15 July 2017
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Tuesday 15 July 2017
Morning all
Polly Toynbee bright and breezy about the shadow trade secretary
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ot-copy-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One of the more extraordinary things about Gardiner contradicting Starmer is that he has done so without being called out on it by the leadership.
I think it is because it has been approved. He wouldn't otherwise have dared.
Toynbee has been speaking with Starmer (who is otherwise silent on this policy shift by Corbyn). But, whatever else is wrong about the Gardiner's position it is comprehensible. Starmer's (and the 6 tests) make no internal sense, and so couldn't be anything other than a holding position.
The pivot seems to have come, and Labour has gone for a Harder Brexit than the Tories.
Polly Toynbee bright and breezy about the shadow trade secretary
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ot-copy-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One of the more extraordinary things about Gardiner contradicting Starmer is that he has done so without being called out on it by the leadership.
I think it is because it has been approved. He wouldn't otherwise have dared.
Toynbee has been speaking with Starmer (who is otherwise silent on this policy shift by Corbyn). But, whatever else is wrong about the Gardiner's position it is comprehensible. Starmer's (and the 6 tests) make no internal sense, and so couldn't be anything other than a holding position.
The pivot seems to have come, and Labour has gone for a Harder Brexit than the Tories.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
This boils down to thisSpinningHugo wrote:Morning all
Polly Toynbee bright and breezy about the shadow trade secretary
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ot-copy-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One of the more extraordinary things about Gardiner contradicting Starmer is that he has done so without being called out on it by the leadership.
I think it is because it has been approved. He wouldn't otherwise have dared.
Toynbee has been speaking with Starmer (who is otherwise silent on this policy shift by Corbyn). But, whatever else is wrong about the Gardiner's position it is comprehensible. Starmer's (and the 6 tests) make no internal sense, and so couldn't be anything other than a holding position.
The pivot seems to have come, and Labour has gone for a Harder Brexit than the Tories.
Well perhaps if some people hadn't droned on for the last year that you couldn't stay in the Single Market without staying in the EU he wouldn't have had to say that.Giving a mistaken legal reason that leaving the EU means exiting the market, he ignored those such as Norway in the European Economic Area (EEA), in the single market not the EU – a harbour for the UK in transition (or permanently).
Frankly I despair. May goes off to Switzerland for three weeks and what do people do? Take the chance to bash Jeremy Corbyn.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
The only person I've ever heard saying that, until last week, is howsillyofme on this messageboard, and so I rather doubt it influenced Corbyn much. I don't think it was a slip by Corbyn as he said the same thing the week before interviewed on bllomberg (I linked to it on here at the time).PaulfromYorkshire wrote: Well perhaps if some people hadn't droned on for the last year that you couldn't stay in the Single Market without staying in the EU he wouldn't have had to say that.
Quite a few Brexiters endorsed the 'Norway' option at one point (eg Dan Hanan).
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Interesting post from Adam last night which I disagree with significantly in parts but it made some valuable points that are fair
One thing I do disagree with fundamentally though is the statement that the discussion on the SM is pedantary
This is central to the whole point as the EU appears to see their internal market indivisible from Schengen, the CU and CAP
I suggest that if Schengen is invluded then it will be a challenge to sell to the electorate to say the least - and why would they allow us to maintain an opt out? Especially as it reinforces the Common Travel Area which is not sustainable
My other argument is that the propsals I see of SM and CU (and more perhaps) take us much further than Norway and how will that play with sn electorate who, like it or not, voted to Leave
Do you think that us leaving the EU on paper only but being subject to all current rules, paying more and no longer having a say is going to be sustainable in the medium term?
If you think the rhetoric is bad now...imagine what it will be in this scenario
Labour are the only hope to try and do something...the alternative is the Tories.....Hugo has made his call...he wants the Tories based on his last paragraph
As Paul said Labour has the six tests...let us see how they apply tgem when it really matters not in a debate in the media
One thing I do disagree with fundamentally though is the statement that the discussion on the SM is pedantary
This is central to the whole point as the EU appears to see their internal market indivisible from Schengen, the CU and CAP
I suggest that if Schengen is invluded then it will be a challenge to sell to the electorate to say the least - and why would they allow us to maintain an opt out? Especially as it reinforces the Common Travel Area which is not sustainable
My other argument is that the propsals I see of SM and CU (and more perhaps) take us much further than Norway and how will that play with sn electorate who, like it or not, voted to Leave
Do you think that us leaving the EU on paper only but being subject to all current rules, paying more and no longer having a say is going to be sustainable in the medium term?
If you think the rhetoric is bad now...imagine what it will be in this scenario
Labour are the only hope to try and do something...the alternative is the Tories.....Hugo has made his call...he wants the Tories based on his last paragraph
As Paul said Labour has the six tests...let us see how they apply tgem when it really matters not in a debate in the media
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
"the EU appears to see their internal market indivisible from Schengen, the CU and CAP"
What a peculiar thing to say as there are examples of countries that don't have Schengen but do have the others (the UK), are members of the single market by don't have a CU or CAP (Norway) and members of a CU who have none of the rest (Turkey).
I am afraid I think you're just guilty of sophistry again. By raising Schengen, the likelihood of our joining or of EU negotiators insisting upon is minimal, you're adopting the same argument tactic as the Brexiters did of raising the spectre of Turkey becoming an EU member. Yes, there is a remote chance of that, but not enough that it is worth worrying about.
As for
"Hugo has made his call...he wants the Tories based on his last paragraph"
that is as ridiculous as the rest. I *loathe* the Tory position, as I've made clear. What is astonishing is that Labour appears to be going for a position even more extreme. I am glad I voted Green. Wrong as they are on may things, they're right on the biggest issue by far, dwarfing all the others (on which this depends).
Labour's six tests make no sense.
https://labourlist.org/2017/03/keir-sta ... arliament/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The second, "the exact same benefits of the single market and customs union" is unachievable without remaining in the single market and customs union. So, we put Corbyn's (repeated) statements that we must leave the single market alongside the six tests, and we get to the conclusion that Labour wants us to leave the single market and join it.
For the avoidance of doubt, the government is just as clueless as the opposition on all this, which is very sad.
What a peculiar thing to say as there are examples of countries that don't have Schengen but do have the others (the UK), are members of the single market by don't have a CU or CAP (Norway) and members of a CU who have none of the rest (Turkey).
I am afraid I think you're just guilty of sophistry again. By raising Schengen, the likelihood of our joining or of EU negotiators insisting upon is minimal, you're adopting the same argument tactic as the Brexiters did of raising the spectre of Turkey becoming an EU member. Yes, there is a remote chance of that, but not enough that it is worth worrying about.
As for
"Hugo has made his call...he wants the Tories based on his last paragraph"
that is as ridiculous as the rest. I *loathe* the Tory position, as I've made clear. What is astonishing is that Labour appears to be going for a position even more extreme. I am glad I voted Green. Wrong as they are on may things, they're right on the biggest issue by far, dwarfing all the others (on which this depends).
Labour's six tests make no sense.
https://labourlist.org/2017/03/keir-sta ... arliament/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The second, "the exact same benefits of the single market and customs union" is unachievable without remaining in the single market and customs union. So, we put Corbyn's (repeated) statements that we must leave the single market alongside the six tests, and we get to the conclusion that Labour wants us to leave the single market and join it.
For the avoidance of doubt, the government is just as clueless as the opposition on all this, which is very sad.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
i am fed up of my position being misrepresented by Hugo
The EU internal market is large and covers a lot of things, four freedoms, CU, Schengen etc
The EU doesnt divide it in most cases as it is a requisite to be a member now. There are some old derogations such as UK on Schengen which were invluded in the treaties
Non EU members are able to participate in or access aspects of the internal market based on their own treaties
The 4 freedoms are non negotiable it seems but CU isnt and who knows for Schengen
Willow says membership means EEA but that contains certain derogations as well from the internal market too
I belabour this point as I think there is a simplistic approach that hides the complexities . A criticism we are only too happy to throw at the Leavers
Let us wait until the details of the negotiations arrive and we can see what they contain...I can imagine they will be more complex than we think
The EU internal market is large and covers a lot of things, four freedoms, CU, Schengen etc
The EU doesnt divide it in most cases as it is a requisite to be a member now. There are some old derogations such as UK on Schengen which were invluded in the treaties
Non EU members are able to participate in or access aspects of the internal market based on their own treaties
The 4 freedoms are non negotiable it seems but CU isnt and who knows for Schengen
Willow says membership means EEA but that contains certain derogations as well from the internal market too
I belabour this point as I think there is a simplistic approach that hides the complexities . A criticism we are only too happy to throw at the Leavers
Let us wait until the details of the negotiations arrive and we can see what they contain...I can imagine they will be more complex than we think
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Truth of the matter is here that it's chicken coup time again.
The establishment are having a right go at Corbyn on the flimsiest of pretences, that he lied on student debt and that he's divided from Starmer on Brexit.
I half expect an Eaglesque figure to come lurching out of the Progess shadows to save Labour.
Why else would Hugo be up so early?
The establishment are having a right go at Corbyn on the flimsiest of pretences, that he lied on student debt and that he's divided from Starmer on Brexit.
I half expect an Eaglesque figure to come lurching out of the Progess shadows to save Labour.
Why else would Hugo be up so early?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
HOSM, Hugo, me how about we let others get a word in edgeways today and discuss something else?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:HOSM, Hugo, me how about we let others get a word in edgeways today and discuss something else?
It is the issue of the day, dwarfing everything else.
There is another board I know of where more comfortable things are discussed, and where this, the biggest one, is ignored, because uncomfortable.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
"Comfortable"?SpinningHugo wrote:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:HOSM, Hugo, me how about we let others get a word in edgeways today and discuss something else?
It is the issue of the day, dwarfing everything else.
There is another board I know of where more comfortable things are discussed, and where this, the biggest one, is ignored, because uncomfortable.
You mean they discuss human beings? We used to do that here too you know? HindleA (others too) tries every day, but you never respond to him. Well you wouldn't want us to discuss anything where the Tories are clearly more vulnerable than Labour would you? Oh no. Let's stay on the topics where we can attack Corbyn.
"Comfortable"?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
I'm pretty pissed off that the Tories have trashed all their plans to electrify rail lines in the North. The one I travel on most regularly is the Leeds Manchester line, one of the busiest in the country, linking arguably too of the most important industrial centres outside London.
Someone's done quite a good job in the media of linking that to £30 billion new money for CrossRail 2.
Are the Tories giving up on the North?
Someone's done quite a good job in the media of linking that to £30 billion new money for CrossRail 2.
Are the Tories giving up on the North?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
I admit I just ignore HindleA. It is just a stream of the Guardian frontpage usually, which I've already read.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:"Comfortable"?SpinningHugo wrote:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:HOSM, Hugo, me how about we let others get a word in edgeways today and discuss something else?
It is the issue of the day, dwarfing everything else.
There is another board I know of where more comfortable things are discussed, and where this, the biggest one, is ignored, because uncomfortable.
You mean they discuss human beings? We used to do that here too you know? HindleA (others too) tries every day, but you never respond to him. Well you wouldn't want us to discuss anything where the Tories are clearly more vulnerable than Labour would you? Oh no. Let's stay on the topics where we can attack Corbyn.
"Comfortable"?
I don't know much about rail electrification, but it sounds like a disaster
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... oliticians" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
TfL and Network Rail seem to have cocked up repeatedly.
But I defer to Tubby and others who know much more about it than me.
Oh, and my view that spending huge amounts of money on rail infrastructure is probably not a good long term bet because of driverless cars coming within the next couple of decades is usually just laughed at. I think it will transform transport, and personal car ownership should decline quite quickly. It is a good thing just within reach.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Also in the news, something about leasehold that I don't understand.
I'd love somebody with a fine legal mind to explain it to me
I'd love somebody with a fine legal mind to explain it to me
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Also in the news, something about leasehold that I don't understand.
I'd love somebody with a fine legal mind to explain it to me
It is daft really. They should just regulate leasehold terms, rather than banning it.
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Apologies for the cut, you said a lot more, but, well, no, but I get the impression that this is what Labour's position appears to be which is why I described it as dishonest. This is the problem. I don't see the difference between, on the one hand, having or supporting a set of policies that involve leaving the EU in name but functionally remaining somewhat as we are, and on the other saying 'the vote to leave is a disaster and we need to keep a mind to changing public opinion because the best thing to do still would be to not leave.' Note that I don't and have never advocated just ignoring the result, it has happened and we're stuck with it, but there is nothing uniquely immutable about a referendum result. We should be slow to go again but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.howsillyofme1 wrote:Do you think that us leaving the EU on paper only but being subject to all current rules, paying more and no longer having a say is going to be sustainable in the medium term?
It's worth adding in, to co-opt a much used and rightly derided policy position, that there is a situation in which we eat our cake and have it with the EU - it's the position we've negotiated over the last 40 odd years, rich with opt-outs and derogations. It is more than likely that any attempt to rejoin will be utterly frustrated by an electorate who will never vote for us to get a significantly worse deal than we had when we were in before - even if that deal is better than whatever we're left with outside (and there is a quiet expectation there that any attempt would have to go to a referendum, and really this is a hypothetical because it's very difficult to see how anyone could carry it).
And we are leaving and we are going to be outside and this will all be done on the conservative's terms, and Labour's job in opposition should be to hammer home the detail to show how dangerous this is, how worthless the government position is and what all of these things will mean on a day to day basis. I don't see this happening at all.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Sounds sensible.SpinningHugo wrote:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Also in the news, something about leasehold that I don't understand.
I'd love somebody with a fine legal mind to explain it to me
It is daft really. They should just regulate leasehold terms, rather than banning it.
Are there reputable new build leasehold companies who are going to be hit by the ban?
I'm interested because there is such a development just down the road from us and I know a few people who have lived there. I haven't heard complaints and the houses seem OK. It appeared like a plausible addition in an area where there isn't a big rental market, certainly not of "family" type properties.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
IMHO, you don't see it happening because Theresa May is half way up the Matterhorn, Parliament has risen for the summer and there is nothing to vote on.adam wrote:Apologies for the cut, you said a lot more, but, well, no, but I get the impression that this is what Labour's position appears to be which is why I described it as dishonest. This is the problem. I don't see the difference between, on the one hand, having or supporting a set of policies that involve leaving the EU in name but functionally remaining somewhat as we are, and on the other saying 'the vote to leave is a disaster and we need to keep a mind to changing public opinion because the best thing to do still would be to not leave.' Note that I don't and have never advocated just ignoring the result, it has happened and we're stuck with it, but there is nothing uniquely immutable about a referendum result. We should be slow to go again but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen.howsillyofme1 wrote:Do you think that us leaving the EU on paper only but being subject to all current rules, paying more and no longer having a say is going to be sustainable in the medium term?
It's worth adding in, to co-opt a much used and rightly derided policy position, that there is a situation in which we eat our cake and have it with the EU - it's the position we've negotiated over the last 40 odd years, rich with opt-outs and derogations. It is more than likely that any attempt to rejoin will be utterly frustrated by an electorate who will never vote for us to get a significantly worse deal than we had when we were in before - even if that deal is better than whatever we're left with outside (and there is a quiet expectation there that any attempt would have to go to a referendum, and really this is a hypothetical because it's very difficult to see how anyone could carry it).
And we are leaving and we are going to be outside and this will all be done on the conservative's terms, and Labour's job in opposition should be to hammer home the detail to show how dangerous this is, how worthless the government position is and what all of these things will mean on a day to day basis. I don't see this happening at all.
We need to be patient. It's hard, because we care so much about it, but it really, really isn't Corbyn's fault that Parliament isn't sitting.
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Andy Burnham thinks so, he was on Newsnight last night.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm pretty pissed off that the Tories have trashed all their plans to electrify rail lines in the North. The one I travel on most regularly is the Leeds Manchester line, one of the busiest in the country, linking arguably too of the most important industrial centres outside London.
Someone's done quite a good job in the media of linking that to £30 billion new money for CrossRail 2.
Are the Tories giving up on the North?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
I take the point, but the government published three policy position papers the other week that were full of nonsense and absent of all sorts of relevant detail and I cannot find a detailed labour response to them. The government will not stop for the summer, they will keep dripping more of their version of 'detail' into what's happening with the negotiations.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:IMHO, you don't see it happening because Theresa May is half way up the Matterhorn, Parliament has risen for the summer and there is nothing to vote on.
We need to be patient. It's hard, because we care so much about it, but it really, really isn't Corbyn's fault that Parliament isn't sitting.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
But why did they go back to leasehold in the first place?SpinningHugo wrote:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Also in the news, something about leasehold that I don't understand.
I'd love somebody with a fine legal mind to explain it to me
It is daft really. They should just regulate leasehold terms, rather than banning it.
Answer - because they could.
There's no reason for it whatsoever. I thought we'd left leasehold housing a long time ago - my own house built in 1905-6 was sold leasehold and the freehold wasn't bought out until many years later.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
This is an exaggeration, of course, but leasehold is just a more obvious vestige of the serfdom and feudalism which still technically thoroughly underpins UK property law. Get involved in a dispute over your land and you'll probably find that at best you are 'A tenant of the freehold interest'.RogerOThornhill wrote:But why did they go back to leasehold in the first place?SpinningHugo wrote:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Also in the news, something about leasehold that I don't understand.
I'd love somebody with a fine legal mind to explain it to me
It is daft really. They should just regulate leasehold terms, rather than banning it.
Answer - because they could.
There's no reason for it whatsoever. I thought we'd left leasehold housing a long time ago - my own house built in 1905-6 was sold leasehold and the freehold wasn't bought out until many years later.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Thanks I missed that. I'll have a look on Twittergilsey wrote:Andy Burnham thinks so, he was on Newsnight last night.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm pretty pissed off that the Tories have trashed all their plans to electrify rail lines in the North. The one I travel on most regularly is the Leeds Manchester line, one of the busiest in the country, linking arguably too of the most important industrial centres outside London.
Someone's done quite a good job in the media of linking that to £30 billion new money for CrossRail 2.
Are the Tories giving up on the North?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Couple oof interesting things on Brexit.
This just RT'd by the commission's deputy negotiator, rebuts Blair's position
http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=4&pub_id=7865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This by Cable
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... he-talking" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is Starmer on holiday?
This just RT'd by the commission's deputy negotiator, rebuts Blair's position
http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=4&pub_id=7865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This by Cable
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/po ... he-talking" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Is Starmer on holiday?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Here is the TUC showing the naivety the commission's negotiator is deprecating
https://labourlist.org/2017/07/staying- ... -movement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://labourlist.org/2017/07/staying- ... -movement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Apart from the stream of Governmental links,studies etc posted for others in the main.
It's not all about Hugo,shock.
It's not all about Hugo,shock.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Hi Adamadam wrote:I take the point, but the government published three policy position papers the other week that were full of nonsense and absent of all sorts of relevant detail and I cannot find a detailed labour response to them. The government will not stop for the summer, they will keep dripping more of their version of 'detail' into what's happening with the negotiations.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:IMHO, you don't see it happening because Theresa May is half way up the Matterhorn, Parliament has risen for the summer and there is nothing to vote on.
We need to be patient. It's hard, because we care so much about it, but it really, really isn't Corbyn's fault that Parliament isn't sitting.
Fair point too.
Hopefully they are working on it and consulting.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... in-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Transparency data
Schools in England
Transparency data
Schools in England
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... rgy-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Consultation outcome
A smart, flexible energy system: call for evidence
Consultation outcome
A smart, flexible energy system: call for evidence
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Did that just come off the front page of the Groan? I was wondering whether to ignore itHindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... in-england
Transparency data
Schools in England
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/dire ... -offenders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Press release
Director of Labour Market Enforcement warns rogue bosses of plans to use powers to jail worst offenders
Press release
Director of Labour Market Enforcement warns rogue bosses of plans to use powers to jail worst offenders
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
This is great news for everyone (unless you're a Stagecoach shareholder) and shows how well the rail franchise system is working
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-contract" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... l-contract" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.nao.org.uk/report/investiga ... ent-rules/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Investigation into governments management of the Business Appointment Rules
The Cabinet Office are responsible for the Business Appointment Rules, but have not published any guidelines, and have no oversight of departmental compliance.
Investigation into governments management of the Business Appointment Rules
The Cabinet Office are responsible for the Business Appointment Rules, but have not published any guidelines, and have no oversight of departmental compliance.
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
That's excellent and should be read by all, especially the Labour front bench who should be looking back to it to call the government out on their completely unworkable positions.SpinningHugo wrote:Couple oof interesting things on Brexit.
This just RT'd by the commission's deputy negotiator, rebuts Blair's position
http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=4&pub_id=7865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Edited to add - I didn't quote from it because I almost wanted to quote it all but this bit is almost funny.
The notion that the EU could somehow concede on fundamental aspects of the treaties, such as freedom of movement or the oversight of the ECJ, is not only unlikely but would be struck down by the Court when challenged.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
They're giving up on electrified rail elsewhere as well:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm pretty pissed off that the Tories have trashed all their plans to electrify rail lines in the North. The one I travel on most regularly is the Leeds Manchester line, one of the busiest in the country, linking arguably too of the most important industrial centres outside London.
Someone's done quite a good job in the media of linking that to £30 billion new money for CrossRail 2.
Are the Tories giving up on the North?
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/brist ... firm-82492" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Possibly because this country now lacks competence at so many levels we can't deliver even the simplest of infrastructure projects - I pity anyone whose lives will be impacted by HS2. It will undoubtedly not go well:Chancellor Philip Hammond refuses to confirm electrification of rail line to Bristol will ever happen
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39143416" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Network Rail and Department for Transport (DfT) have learnt the lessons from the poor early planning of this project," a spokesman said.
"Today we do not take forward major projects until they are properly scoped, properly planned and we have a robust estimate of what the cost will be."
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Yes a good piece, but we should remember it's one (influential) author's point of view not an agreed EU position.adam wrote:That's excellent and should be read by all, especially the Labour front bench who should be looking back to it to call the government out on their completely unworkable positions.SpinningHugo wrote:Couple oof interesting things on Brexit.
This just RT'd by the commission's deputy negotiator, rebuts Blair's position
http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=4&pub_id=7865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Edited to add - I didn't quote from it because I almost wanted to quote it all but this bit is almost funny.
The notion that the EU could somehow concede on fundamental aspects of the treaties, such as freedom of movement or the oversight of the ECJ, is not only unlikely but would be struck down by the Court when challenged.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
The Scottish version of feudalism with respect to home ownership was abolished over a decade ago:adam wrote:
This is an exaggeration, of course, but leasehold is just a more obvious vestige of the serfdom and feudalism which still technically thoroughly underpins UK property law. Get involved in a dispute over your land and you'll probably find that at best you are 'A tenant of the freehold interest'.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4048529.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;The legislation which comes into force on Sunday is contained in the Abolition of Feudal Tenure (Scotland) Act 2000, the Title Conditions (Scotland) Act 2001 and the Tenements (Scotland) Act 2004.
It effectively brings to an end a system where feudal superiors had control over what could be done with land and property - even when it was owned by someone else.
So it can be done. Of course, it was a Labour/Lib Dem coalition in charge at the time.
Last edited by Eric_WLothian on Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:21 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Yep that's pretty much exactly what it is.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Truth of the matter is here that it's chicken coup time again.
The establishment are having a right go at Corbyn on the flimsiest of pretences, that he lied on student debt and that he's divided from Starmer on Brexit.
I half expect an Eaglesque figure to come lurching out of the Progess shadows to save Labour.
Why else would Hugo be up so early?
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Good morfternoon.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Hi - I reckon Eric needs some technical assistancePorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Would anyone like me to get rid of the three quote anti-quotathon thing?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Fixed it - eventually - at the expense of a few levels of nesting.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hi - I reckon Eric needs some technical assistancePorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Yep.Temulkar wrote:Yep that's pretty much exactly what it is.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Truth of the matter is here that it's chicken coup time again.
The establishment are having a right go at Corbyn on the flimsiest of pretences, that he lied on student debt and that he's divided from Starmer on Brexit.
I half expect an Eaglesque figure to come lurching out of the Progess shadows to save Labour.
Why else would Hugo be up so early?
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Well done! And good morning EricEric_WLothian wrote:Fixed it - eventually - at the expense of a few levels of nesting.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Hi - I reckon Eric needs some technical assistancePorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... p-thinking" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK’s rail network suffering from lack of joined-up thinking
UK’s rail network suffering from lack of joined-up thinking
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017 ... blic-space" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cities
These squares are our squares: be angry about the privatisation of public space
Bradley L Garrett
Cities
These squares are our squares: be angry about the privatisation of public space
Bradley L Garrett
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... hael-rosen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dear Justine Greening: your primary school reading reforms aren’t making the grade
Michael Rosen
Dear Justine Greening: your primary school reading reforms aren’t making the grade
Michael Rosen
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The social housing system is being demolished without a whimper
The social housing system is being demolished without a whimper
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017 ... blic-space
Cities
These squares are our squares: be angry about the privatisation of public space
Bradley L Garrett
Good article. Which I would have read had it not been a link to the Guardian . . .
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Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07 ... b-concerns" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
labours-shadow-brexit-secretary-turns-lucrative-legal-job-concerns
labours-shadow-brexit-secretary-turns-lucrative-legal-job-concerns
Re: Tuesday 15 July 2017
Have we actually established yet whether article 50 is unilaterally revocable or not? Would surely colour all of this very differently if it is. I'd really love to know what the lawyers are advising Theresa May on this. Without knowing people's beliefs on revocability, there's a missing element to understanding everyone's stance.SpinningHugo wrote:Couple oof interesting things on Brexit.
This just RT'd by the commission's deputy negotiator, rebuts Blair's position
http://www.epc.eu/pub_details.php?cat_id=4&pub_id=7865" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If we can just change our mind, it gives Theresa May rather more cards than would currently appear.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb