Tuesday 15 July 2017

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:30 pm

And the Shadow Trade Secretary is to the right of David Davis on the Single Market. I'm not exactly doing Andrew Gilligan style loose connection of unimportant people here.

But I'm encouraged by Andrew Gwynne there.

Post by **adam** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:31 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:TE did predict something along those lines I regret to say, it is on the record.

I remember people commenting on others in the media and rumours in the party worried about 25% and 150 seats but I stand to be corrected, no problem there.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:32 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Labour supports Hard Brexit at the moment. That will be shit.

No, "Labour" doesn't. And even if "Labour" did, they aren't in power at the moment.

I think conference will be interesting to watch over this btw.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:32 pm

indeed he did....so then Adam care to say something?

Post by **adam** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:33 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:indeed he did....so then Adam care to say something?

Yes, I'm sorry if I'm wrongly accusing you of hyperbole, I honestly remembered it differently,

I would add that at the beginning of the campaign those predictions were not ludicrous. They couldn't have been more wrong, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:34 pm

the Single Market is not particularly left wing

It is the baby of Thatcher

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:34 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:indeed he did....so then Adam care to say something?

He just has tbf.

I recall it mainly because of the shock I felt that somebody so sensible in many respects could predict something so obviously ridiculous

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:34 pm

AK

crossed posts

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:37 pm

adam wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:indeed he did....so then Adam care to say something?
Yes, I'm sorry if I'm wrongly accusing you of hyperbole, I honestly remembered it differently,

I would add that at the beginning of the campaign those predictions were not ludicrous. They couldn't have been more wrong, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Oh, I feared a terrible result at the start just like we all did.

A catastrophe of that magnitude was never a realistic prospect, though - even a worse campaign than 1983 would have struggled to create it.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:37 pm

Some people made predictions that were way off but were not viciously unpleasant in their invective like TE

He hasnt been back since but may return soon as the boatd has become relentlessly anti-leadership again

oh and I apologise if I came across as rude to you Adam

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:40 pm

Anyway in Bracknell and weather been great....off up to Huddersfield tomorrow on an epic train journey

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:43 pm

Obamacare: US senators vote in favour of debating repeal

The US Senate has voted to start debating a new Republican healthcare bill in a major step forward for President Donald Trump's attempts to repeal his predecessor's signature law.

In a tight vote, several Republicans previously opposed to aspects of the plan changed their minds.(BBC News website)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-40723060

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:44 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Labour supports Hard Brexit at the moment. That will be shit.
No, "Labour" doesn't. And even if "Labour" did, they aren't in power at the moment.

I think conference will be interesting to watch over this btw.

I hope so.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 10:49 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:the Single Market is not particularly left wing

It is the baby of Thatcher

And yet countries way more progressive than us seem to thrive in it.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:04 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:the Single Market is not particularly left wing

It is the baby of Thatcher
And yet countries way more progressive than us seem to thrive in it.

Yes, and here's the rub, because they are not slaves to it.

I don't believe there's another state in the EU where people even talk about Single Market, Schmingle Market, Bark-it, Quark-it like people do on here.

This is the WHOLE POINT. Other EU states get on with their with looking after their own folk without bowing, kowtowing at the altar of capitalism.

Chant after me. Single Market. Four Freedoms. We love neoliberal capitalism. Maggie Thatcher. Tony Blair. Single Market. Single Market.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:04 pm

Sperm count drop 'may lead to human extinction'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-40719743" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Why does a tiny-weeny-little-teeny part of me think that might not be a bad thing - overall

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:06 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:Anyway in Bracknell and weather been great....off up to Huddersfield tomorrow on an epic train journey

Do bob by

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:07 pm

it's a tense time
let's pace ourselves
it's hard, lots of uncertainty

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:08 pm

Night night.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:09 pm

Acid attack suspected as men targeted in Bethnal Green

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40720437" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The country is just so depressing just now I can't even get my brain round why anyone would want to do this kind of thing.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:10 pm

PorFavor wrote:Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:12 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 59561.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jeremy Corbyn has disagreed with his own Shadow International Trade Secretary, and said that the Labour party would keep membership of the customs union after Brexit "on the table."

"We need to be flexible in our approach and not sweep options off the table," the spokesperson said.
"As we spelled out in our election manifesto, Labour believes that the Brexit negotiations should put jobs and the economy first, with the priority of tariff-free access to the European single market.
"We want to see a new partnership with the EU that maintains the benefits of both the single market and the customs union."

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:16 pm

Rather than sweeping the options off the table, maybe they could carefully transfer them onto the dessert trolley.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:17 pm

tinybgoat wrote:http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 59561.html

Jeremy Corbyn has disagreed with his own Shadow International Trade Secretary, and said that the Labour party would keep membership of the customs union after Brexit "on the table."

"We need to be flexible in our approach and not sweep options off the table," the spokesperson said.
"As we spelled out in our election manifesto, Labour believes that the Brexit negotiations should put jobs and the economy first, with the priority of tariff-free access to the European single market.
"We want to see a new partnership with the EU that maintains the benefits of both the single market and the customs union."

Isn't this all the same stuff?

Labour can't say we want to stay in the SM & CU because we're continually too that means we have to stay in the EU.

But of course we want all the advantages.

Only time can resolve these contradictions. Patience required.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:18 pm

Brussels attacks Liam Fox's 'ignorant' remarks on chlorinated chicken
EU withering about UK trade secretary’s view on food standards being minor matter in potential trade deal with US after Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:21 pm

tinybgoat wrote:Rather than sweeping the options off the table, maybe they could carefully transfer them onto the dessert trolley.

At the same time as buying a hymn sheet for all shadow cabinet so they can all sing from the same one at the same time.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:22 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:---
Isn't this all the same stuff?

Labour can't say we want to stay in the SM & CU because we're continually too that means we have to stay in the EU.

But of course we want all the advantages.

Only time can resolve these contradictions. Patience required.

(cJA edit)
Yep

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:23 pm

[youtube]zgAkWBK3FIg[/youtube]

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:24 pm

eronica
@VeroVero777

It's not only about bleached chicken.
Eighty-two pesticides are banned in the EU on health and environmental grounds – but not in the US.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 25 Jul, 2017 11:26 pm

I love you
Goodnight, everyone
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 12:01 am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/ ... s-budapest" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Adam Peaty sets two 50m breaststroke world record in one extraordinary day.

Not quite eclipsing my fifth place in the same event of the Aberdeenshire Schools Championship (under 11) but promising.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 12:03 am

I retired after that,it was a brief career.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 12:09 am

Only five finished.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 12:44 am

Looking forward to Busty Beryl's (39,29,39) Brexit Position(s) from the S#n link.as evidence,later.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 12:56 am

adam wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:indeed he did....so then Adam care to say something?
Yes, I'm sorry if I'm wrongly accusing you of hyperbole, I honestly remembered it differently,

I would add that at the beginning of the campaign those predictions were not ludicrous. They couldn't have been more wrong, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Some of us were pointing out how ridiculous such predictions were and said a hung Parliament could happen. And we got mocked scorned, lied about and to, accused of anti-semitism, and throw in a bit of genocide denial on top. By the very same people whose predictions have been spectacularly wrong, time and time again, and who are predicting more of the same again.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 1:04 am

I underestimated the scale of defeat here.I got a bit of crap from both "sides"but mostly conveniently ignored,I don't fit into the preferred narrative or mutual false portrayal.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 1:12 am

HindleA wrote:I underestimated the scale of defeat here.I got a bit of crap from both "sides"but mostly conveniently ignored,I don't fit into the preferred narrative or mutual false portrayal.

It's not a false portrayal though, is it. That is exactly what happened, loads of people left because of it. That's the problem, the same people demanding that their opinion is the only possible way things can be, when they have been proven wrong so many times, and continuing to lie and insult and smear in the very same manner as before the election.

Hugo comes here with a clear agenda, and that is to spread discord; he is frighteningly transparent. Others come here with a clear intent to attack the labour leadership, no matter what. That's why the debates are good on here when the agenda driven posters aren't posting their agenda, and it's why they degenerate as soon as the same old starts up again.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 2:01 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... -providers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Press release
Government announces additional support for social care providers

The government today announced it will:

waive historic financial penalties owed by employers who have underpaid their workers for overnight sleep-in shifts before 26 July 2017
temporarily suspend HMRC enforcement activity concerning payment of sleep-in shifts by social care providers until 2 October 2017

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... aw#history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 2:04 am

Nope,was hoping removal of any non chargeable loan with interest and charges housing support for non paid carers on a 24/7 basis in own homes was being suspended.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 2:17 am

May have mentioned fascistically intended,which is of course ridiculous because it is completely unaffordable to continue to splash out a third of the average rent alternative;it's only a few,they can't work and receive so continue to work even though not expected to with substitute care whether preferred to or not,that'll help.the social care crisis because you must be made to make the same choices that others don't have to make.No several decades of contributions was involved in this production.That's the best case scenario.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 2:46 am

Just another way to lop £30 a week off or later retrieved with interest from the sick/disabled/carers if no move,vast more expense if they do which of course helps the lack of housing.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 2:51 am

Louise Mensch, going after Donald:

http://zelo-street.blogspot.in/2017/07/ ... n.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 26 Jul, 2017 3:04 am

Good grief.