Thursday 27th July 2017

Post by **refitman** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 8:33 am

Morning all.

Melanie Phillips (yes, that one) lays onto the American Right on the coverage of the Charlie Gard affair.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/cruel-ignorant-campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's all worth reading but this bit might give some who think that ignorance comes purely from one direction of the political spectrum pause for thought.

Whether or not Great Ormond Street hospital was right or wrong in its diagnosis, its medical staff were only ever concerned with one thing: the best interests of their tiny patient. For this they have been subjected to vilification and death threats and portrayed as inhumane and murderers. This is unspeakable.

I write a great deal about the ideological bullying of the left, the lies published by left-wing media and the inhumanity and irrationality of so much allegedly progressive thinking. But I have never witnessed such concentrated ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and unthinking cruelty as has been displayed by the American political right over the tragic case of Charlie Gard.

And Professor Hirano - words fail.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 8:43 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Melanie Phillips (yes, that one) lays onto the American Right on the coverage of the Charlie Gard affair.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/cruel-ignorant-campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's all worth reading but this bit might give some who think that ignorance comes purely from one direction of the political spectrum pause for thought.

Whether or not Great Ormond Street hospital was right or wrong in its diagnosis, its medical staff were only ever concerned with one thing: the best interests of their tiny patient. For this they have been subjected to vilification and death threats and portrayed as inhumane and murderers. This is unspeakable.

I write a great deal about the ideological bullying of the left, the lies published by left-wing media and the inhumanity and irrationality of so much allegedly progressive thinking. But I have never witnessed such concentrated ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and unthinking cruelty as has been displayed by the American political right over the tragic case of Charlie Gard.
And Professor Hirano - words fail.

She is married to Joshua Rozenberg, who is great. He has been reporting on the case.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 9:02 am

Morning all. Thanks for the debates going on yesterday at FTN, it was great to catch up with this morning.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 9:22 am

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-brita ... KKBN1AC0K7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

British-based investment firms' long-standing ability to manage billions of euros of assets elsewhere in Europe could be threatened by Brexit, new EU guidance suggests.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 9:33 am

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-tra ... KKBN1AC0KV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Europe seeks to set global trade rules after Trump steps back"

Even Britain will probably have to agree to rules forged by negotiators in Brussels when it strikes bilateral deals after Brexit, as the EU's main trade partners adopt the bloc's norms. These will include systems to govern legal disputes among investors and food safety rules.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 9:33 am

Yet another ugly new front page redesign for the guardian website.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 9:45 am

@adam

Thanks for the "no win, no fee" response (which I've just caught up with).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 9:45 am

Good morfternoon.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 9:57 am

tinybgoat wrote:https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-brita ... KKBN1AC0K7
British-based investment firms' long-standing ability to manage billions of euros of assets elsewhere in Europe could be threatened by Brexit, new EU guidance suggests.

You don't say.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 10:07 am

Happy anniversary everyone.

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AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 10:08 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Melanie Phillips (yes, that one) lays onto the American Right on the coverage of the Charlie Gard affair.

http://www.melaniephillips.com/cruel-ignorant-campaign/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's all worth reading but this bit might give some who think that ignorance comes purely from one direction of the political spectrum pause for thought.

Whether or not Great Ormond Street hospital was right or wrong in its diagnosis, its medical staff were only ever concerned with one thing: the best interests of their tiny patient. For this they have been subjected to vilification and death threats and portrayed as inhumane and murderers. This is unspeakable.

I write a great deal about the ideological bullying of the left, the lies published by left-wing media and the inhumanity and irrationality of so much allegedly progressive thinking. But I have never witnessed such concentrated ignorance, arrogance, stupidity and unthinking cruelty as has been displayed by the American political right over the tragic case of Charlie Gard.
And Professor Hirano - words fail.

There is still time to re-rat, Mel

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 10:16 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -by-age-uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 10:26 am

NonOxCol wrote:Happy anniversary everyone.

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Yes, a good day. Though arguably peak "progressive Brittania" was reached just afterwards when Gidiot was spontaneously booed.

Interesting to examine what went wrong from there.......

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 10:28 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-councils" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Using sugar tax to plug gap in school funding is perverse, say councils

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 10:50 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A struggling school that inspired the country is being destroyed by Tory cuts

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 11:52 am

Europe has warned that the next phase of Brexit negotiations will be delayed for two months because of the UK’s refusal to engage with Brussels on the so-called ‘Brexit divorce bill’, The Telegraph can reveal.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, made the warning in a private meeting with EU ambassadors in Brussels, according to an account of the meeting obtained by The Telegraph.

The EU has said it will not talk about trade or the UK’s future relationship with the EU - tantamount to a suspension in Brexit negotiations - until “sufficient progress” has been made over the questions of protecting citizens’ rights, the Northern Ireland border and the financial settlement. (Telegraph)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07 ... stonewall/

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 12:07 pm

All going swimmingly then...

Sebastian Payne‏Verified account @SebastianEPayne 3h3 hours ago
More
By setting March 2019 as the moment free movement will end, Brandon Lewis is contradicting Amber Rudd in today's @FT https://www.ft.com/content/34228da8-720 ... f383b09ff9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

Clueless and rudderless..the HMS Brexit meanders on its way...

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 12:56 pm

Is this really still July?

Feels more like November - I really shouldn't need lights at home on to see what I'm doing.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 1:21 pm

Thread in which Tory supporters finally realise the government they support slavishly is actually utter shite...

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Actually you can see why there's a focus on Venezuela by some people - a failure to acknowledge what's going on in their own backyard - you could almost call it whataboutery...

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 1:25 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Thread in which Tory supporters finally realise the government they support slavishly is actually utter shite...

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Actually you can see why there's a focus on Venezuela by some people - a failure to acknowledge what's going on in their own backyard - you could almost call it whataboutery...

I liked this one -

Mark Cobley‏ @Fanfaronade 4h
Replying to @iainmartin1

If you're pursuing Brexit at any cost it's really quite helpful not to know the costs
0 replies . 1 retweet 7 likes

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 1:27 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Europe has warned that the next phase of Brexit negotiations will be delayed for two months because of the UK’s refusal to engage with Brussels on the so-called ‘Brexit divorce bill’, The Telegraph can reveal.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, made the warning in a private meeting with EU ambassadors in Brussels, according to an account of the meeting obtained by The Telegraph.

The EU has said it will not talk about trade or the UK’s future relationship with the EU - tantamount to a suspension in Brexit negotiations - until “sufficient progress” has been made over the questions of protecting citizens’ rights, the Northern Ireland border and the financial settlement. (Telegraph)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07 ... stonewall/

Barnier told ambassadors to the EU that the British government had been unable to provide sufficient clarity on its positions during the last week of talks, leaving him pessimistic about the future.

A spokeswoman for the Department for Exiting the EU said in response that the government remained confident about enough progress being made for talks on a future trade deal to begin after the summer. “Negotiations to leave the EU are under way and we have already made good progress on a number of issues,” she said

I can only imagine what the response would be in the press if a labour government were behaving like this.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 1:39 pm

Annual "you have paid too much tax we owe you x" letter from HMRC.Think I will wait,rather than claim online for the refund,to give me time to decide which mansion/flavour of packet of crisps to buy from the proceeds.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 1:41 pm

HindleA wrote:Annual "you have paid too much tax we owe you x" letter from HMRC.Think I will wait,rather than claim online for the refund,to give me time to decide which mansion/flavour of packet of crisps to buy from the proceeds.

In the year that my school became an academy and we all had a change of employer half way through the tax year, a lot of staff (although far from all, which is odd) got big and totally unexpected tax refunds - thousands of pounds. It was my miserable job to notice that this was clearly completely wrong and warn people not to spend it. Lots of people came to find me to say 'I understand what you said, but do you think my one might actually be real?'

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 1:48 pm

This story was around yesterday - the Free School which entered none of its 13 Y11 pupils for GCSEs.

Here's the Ofsted report - it's pretty appalling. The number of basic things that they're simply not doing.

https://reports.ofsted.gov.uk/inspectio ... ELS/139816" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Notice they had a report 2 years ago which put them in Requires Improvement - any sign that the RSC or DfE did anything at all in the meantime? Not as far as I can see.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 2:27 pm

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 2:43 pm

Taking a bit of a breather today after the last few busy days, are we?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:03 pm

Have been out for a visit to a charity shop,bought a book on gardening for 50 p intended as a means of learning but in all honesty will be scanned through in two minutes,gather gust for a while with the process repeated at a later date and probably the same book and had a meal out with my parents/chaffeurs.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:07 pm

Spending as much as 50p might not sound that interesting to relate,but given it's extreme rarity I thought as least noteworthy.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:09 pm

adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Europe has warned that the next phase of Brexit negotiations will be delayed for two months because of the UK’s refusal to engage with Brussels on the so-called ‘Brexit divorce bill’, The Telegraph can reveal.

Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, made the warning in a private meeting with EU ambassadors in Brussels, according to an account of the meeting obtained by The Telegraph.

The EU has said it will not talk about trade or the UK’s future relationship with the EU - tantamount to a suspension in Brexit negotiations - until “sufficient progress” has been made over the questions of protecting citizens’ rights, the Northern Ireland border and the financial settlement. (Telegraph)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/07 ... stonewall/

Barnier told ambassadors to the EU that the British government had been unable to provide sufficient clarity on its positions during the last week of talks, leaving him pessimistic about the future.

A spokeswoman for the Department for Exiting the EU said in response that the government remained confident about enough progress being made for talks on a future trade deal to begin after the summer. “Negotiations to leave the EU are under way and we have already made good progress on a number of issues,” she said
I can only imagine what the response would be in the press if a labour government were behaving like this.

I see that the Express was running its "WE'LL WALK OUT" front page today. Again.

How many more times before now and deadline day 2019??

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:12 pm

HindleA wrote:Spending as much as 50p might not sound that interesting to relate,but given it's extreme rarity I thought as least noteworthy.

I have had a electricity back up machine delivered to me - the kind of thing you plug in to your terribly important device so that if there's a power cut there is no interruption to your electricity supply - that I had never even heard of before today and that I certainly didn't order. It came with a couple of things I did order but they were nothing like this. The company are inviting me to pay to send it back to them and promising to then refund me my postage. I've asked if they might come up with a different plan.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:45 pm

Never heard of it,either.Though some situations come to mind if appropriate to "device"dialysis machine etc,you can go manual but it's a pain in the ####.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:46 pm

HindleA wrote:Never heard of it,either.Though some situations come to mind if appropriate to "device"dialysis machine etc,you can go manual but it's a pain in the ####.

From a very brief read of the very brief manual in order to work out what on earth it was, it seemed to be more worried about whether you'd lose power halfway through uploading something to The Facebook or so on.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:51 pm

Ah o.k.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:53 pm

Just thinking in broader possible application/ usefullness terms(if any)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:54 pm

I have difficulty holding a screwdriver without poking my eye out clarification.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:58 pm

HindleA wrote:Just thinking in broader possible application/ usefullness terms(if any)

No, I can entirely see how something like this would be invaluable in all sorts of medical situations. I have a vision at the moment of me ending up having to send it back to them, it getting lost/damaged on the way and them blaming me. The next stage of them saying 'you posting it is the only way to get it back' is going to be me waiting for an absolute waiver on any kind of liability for it at all ever.

(This is astonishingly dull, sorry. I'm going to write up the stuff about student loans from yesterday and send it to Labour's education team to see if they have anything to say).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:58 pm

At least I think it is screwdriver.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 3:59 pm

I think you do right.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:07 pm

HindleA wrote:I think you do right.

tl:dr

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:17 pm

FWIW not at all sure on the antibiotics stop when you are feeling better thing to be honest.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:19 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ers-tories" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:22 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... a-compound" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Israel U-turns on al-Aqsa mosque security after Palestinian protests
Palestinians celebrate climbdown as Israeli PM is denounced by rightwingers over handling of crisis

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:24 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... healthcare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Senate rejects bill to repeal large parts of Obamacare without replacement
Seven Republicans join with Democrats to oppose proposal
Failure suggests GOP’s promise to repeal ACA wholesale will be hugely difficult

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:27 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n_tw#img-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:30 pm

@adam

I'm on my phone, so hard to type, but just wanted to let you know there is a law related to "unsolicited goods" that seems relevant in your case.

I can't link, but you can try googling it. Saga have quite a clear article on it. My suggestion is you put something in writing, poss email, saying if they want it back to send a pre-paid label, so it's there responsibility. But you don't have to send it back at all, is my understanding.
Hope this helps.

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:33 pm

Willow904 wrote:@adam

I'm on my phone, so hard to type, but just wanted to let you know there is a law related to "unsolicited goods" that seems relevant in your case.

I can't link, but you can try googling it. Saga have quite a clear article on it. My suggestion is you put something in writing, poss email, saying if they want it back to send a pre-paid label, so it's there responsibility. But you don't have to send it back at all, is my understanding.
Hope this helps.

Thank you - this is sorted, they've arranged to collect it, but this is good to know, cheers.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:37 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... regulation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Donald Trump's tax cuts for the rich won't make America great again
Joseph Stiglitz

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:41 pm

adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:@adam

I'm on my phone, so hard to type, but just wanted to let you know there is a law related to "unsolicited goods" that seems relevant in your case.

I can't link, but you can try googling it. Saga have quite a clear article on it. My suggestion is you put something in writing, poss email, saying if they want it back to send a pre-paid label, so it's there responsibility. But you don't have to send it back at all, is my understanding.
Hope this helps.
Thank you - this is sorted, they've arranged to collect it, but this is good to know, cheers.

Good to hear. They were being cheeky asking you to organise sending it back. Glad they didn't get away with it!

Post by **adam** » Thu 27 Jul, 2017 4:53 pm

BBC news story from July 5th this year - IFS estimates average graduate debt to be £50,800 - significantly higher than the £45k we were talking about yesterday - with poorer students who have access to more in loans averaging over £57,000. These figures include over £5000 in interest incurred over the lifetime of the course. Bumps estimates from yesterday from '90% will never pay any capital back' to '93% will never pay any capital back'.