Saturday 29th and Sunday 30th July 2017

Post by **refitman** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 8:29 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 10:02 am

Morning

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are-sector" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 10:43 am

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... rs-trapped" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Victory! New-build leaseholds banned … but what of those already trapped?
The government has proposed a total ban on new-build leasehold houses, but existing homebuyers say they remain trapped, forced to pay large fees. We report on the latest twists in the growing scandal

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 10:44 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/200- ... al-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

£200 million boost for rural England

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 10:45 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/stat ... unscr-2231" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Statement by France, Germany, the United Kingdom and United States: Iran’s space launch vehicle inconsistent with UNSCR 2231

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 10:48 am

Guardian 2 Gov.UK.2
(Crossword invasion stopped play)

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 10:56 am

Good morfternoon.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:08 am

[quote="55degreesnorth" yesterday afternoon"]Afternoon folks,
I do wish people who take offence at each other, for whatever reason, could take their arguments away to private messages or something. Perhaps one of the propellor heads could set up a 'Shutyourfaceyouslag' page elsewhere on the forum?

Anyway, it's gloriously sunny here in Saxony, on our way home from Poland. Brexit truly is barking.[/quote]

This sounds like an excellent solution. One I would strongly support.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:20 am

The occasional spat is natural and normal, and arguably a sign of a forum's vitality. Yesterday was a bit much, though.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:27 am

Yes. Only for when it gets a bit much.

Would be much less difficult to simply invite participants in overheated 'convos' to 'take it outside'. Just as one might elsewhere.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:29 am

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:30 am

Sadiq Khan wrote: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/i-want-eu-flag ... te-1632577" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Speaking to the Guardian on whether he thought Brexit could be avoided, he said: "Yes. I'm an optimist. For it to have credibility with the British public, there would have to be a Labour manifesto offer, because the public would say, not unreasonably, 'Hold on a sec, we voted to leave and you're now sticking two fingers up at us.'"

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:54 am

Morning all.

The ex-president of Mexico doing a bit of trolling.

Vicente Fox Quesada‏Verified account @VicenteFoxQue 6h6 hours ago
More
3 republicans put an end to trumpcare, common sense won. @realDonaldTrump what's left for you to offer? Your words are falling apart.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 11:56 am

A good point by Jolyon Maugham that I hadn't appreciated.

A transition period isn't extra time to negotiate stuff- it's a period when stuff is transitioning to what's been agreed by the time we leave in March 2019.

This is scary.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:02 pm

Donaeld The Unready‏ @donaeldunready 14h14 hours ago
More
This isn't looking for sympathy or anything but as a parody of Donald Trump fucking hell it's hard work keeping up to date.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:02 pm

interesting article on transitional deal (though, sadly, it does use less than complementary language whilst talking about leading brexit supporting public figures )

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also suggests, If a transitional deal hands more powers to EU, we may need another refererendum (because of 'European Act 2011)

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:03 pm

tinybgoat wrote: also suggests, If a transitional deal hands more powers to EU, we may need another refererendum (because of 'European Act 2011)

Joy of joys.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:05 pm

Yeah. Heaven.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:22 pm

Entertaining spat on Twitter between AbiWilks and DFH this morning. Three guesses as to who came out on top?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:25 pm

tinybgoat wrote:interesting article on transitional deal (though, sadly, it does use less than complementary language whilst talking about leading brexit supporting public figures )

http://www.eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=86554" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

also suggests, If a transitional deal hands more powers to EU, we may need another refererendum (because of 'European Act 2011)

Thanks.

This just gets worse, doesn't it?

They could repeal that Act, I suppose, but that wouldn't go down very well.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:28 pm

That "referendum lock" lark was classic opposition posturing.

When they've been in power, they start complaining about there not being a Single Market in services.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:32 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Entertaining spat on Twitter between AbiWilks and DFH this morning. Three guesses as to who came out on top?

I saw this last night.

Tom Harris‏Verified account @MrTCHarris 17h17 hours ago
More
Tom Harris Retweeted Guido Fawkes
Guido is right about the appalling Abi Wilkinson.

I find it appalling that an ex-Labour MP should be writing a column for the Telegraph...but "Guido is right"? FFS.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:34 pm

Oh absolutely, he was holding DFH's coat this morning as well.

A reminder that this piece of human flotsam was a Scottish Labour MP for several years. In retrospect, this may explain much.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:35 pm

Jolyon Maugham called out Tom Harris nicely, didn't he?

Harris was one Labour MP I wasn't unhappy to see beaten by the SNP.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:37 pm

Jonathan Portes owned Harris a while ago on something to do with the labour market. The difference between people on out of work benefits, and people not being in the workforce, IIRC.

Harris argued for a few minutes, then disappeared when he realised he was wrong.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 12:51 pm

Daniel Hannan‏Verified account @DanielJHannan Jul 28
It would surely be logistically easier to treat the British Isles as what it has always been - a single customs area. Checks only at ports.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:11 pm

Leasehold tycoon: man whose firms control 40,000 UK homes

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... 0-uk-homes

In a statement, E&J said: “The company’s policy is not to engage with the media and accordingly we make no comment.”

However, critics of E&J’s ground rents and debt collection practices are far more vocal. Sebastian O’Kelly, who runs Leasehold Knowledge Partnership, said: “E&J conducts its affairs with the typical arrogance of leasehold landlordism. It makes a nuisance of itself – like other freeholders – demanding fees for subletting and consents for patios and conservatories. It believes, with justification sadly, that this high-handedness is backed by law and that the tenantry – that is, the leaseholders – have no choice but to pay up.

“There is almost nothing in its business model that would be unfamiliar to an 18th-century landed gentleman. This game obviously provides Mr Tuttiett with a very nice life.

“But it is not wealth creation or imaginative business. It is parasitism that our legislators have shamefully failed to stamp out.”

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:20 pm

That ^^^ actually reminds me of outsourcing companies - they wouldn't exist if all the employees who previously worked for the public sector still did. They are effectively parasites sucking money out of the state for no good reason whatsoever.

There might be a case for them if they actually brought innovative practices in but generally they are the same people doing the same jobs as they did before.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:31 pm

Or as Ed M said
Not the first time we’ve seen decent people with the right values losing out to those with the wrong ones.
The banking crisis, MPs’ expenses.
Journalists hacking phones.
From them all a something for nothing culture.
Take what you can.
Fill your boots.
Who cares as long as you can get away it.
And these are just the noisy scandals which grab the front pages.

An economy and a society too often rewarding not the right people with the right values, but the wrong people with the wrong values.

Let me tell you what the 21st century choice is:
Are you on the side of the wealth creators or the asset strippers?
The producers or the predators?
Producers train, invest, invent, sell.
Things Britain does brilliantly.
Predators are just interested in the fast buck, taking what they can out of the business.
This isn’t about one industry that’s good and another that isn’t.
Or one firm always destined to be a predator and another to be a producer.
It’s about different ways of doing business, ways that the rules of our economy can favour or discourage.
Look at what a private equity firm did to the Southern Cross care homes.
Stripping assets for a quick buck and treating tens of thousands of elderly people like commodities to be bought and sold.
They may not have sold their own grandmothers for a fast buck.
But they certainly sold yours.
They aren’t the values of British business.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... -full.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:35 pm

HindleA wrote:Pub?

Yes please - lunch as well ?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:40 pm

If your paying,a bit short at the moment(5ft 6")

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:40 pm

In heels

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:44 pm

The Conservatives are criminally incompetent
matthew parris

Even in the bad times I felt proud of my party but this scarcely believable Brexit shambles has left me deeply ashamed

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the- ... -zbnppmx92" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:44 pm

HindleA wrote:If your paying,a bit short at the moment(5ft 6")

we can offer to wash up - maybe?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:50 pm

Depends on the quality of their gloves,I have my skin care to consider.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 1:55 pm

It takes some people longer to see the bleeding obvious than others,think it was more or less my first political observation.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 2:04 pm

"Answer the question stop faffing about with the pipe"

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 2:04 pm

"I Have Many Worries About The Future"

This story was sent to us by Emily, a UK national who lives in France.

http://northeastlabour.eu/i-have-many-w ... out-future" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 2:06 pm

British lack of co-ordination on Brexit ‘beggars belief’
Phil Hogan: UK still has to come to terms with negotiating mandate

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politic ... -1.3171292" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:13 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:16 pm

"That blouse always had a suspisciously iron shaped pattern on it"

Self directed piss take

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:18 pm

Do they still call them blouses?I tend to miss these things.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:19 pm

Brussels triggers legal proceedings against Poland

Move follows Warsaw’s sweeping measures to muzzle its highest courts

https://www.ft.com/content/7de5239a-746 ... a9d1bc9691" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:25 pm

I'd be the World's worse witness.What were they wearing."some sort of clothes affair,I think they were dressed"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:27 pm

What day was this "Not sure I think it had a "Y" in it

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:30 pm

But you were sitting right next to them for four hours."Were they?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:36 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 66231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Labour should also remember that, while Westminster might be obsessed with Brexit, the average voter is much more interested in the economy

Brexit IS the economy.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:47 pm

Yes, but - at the moment - a lot of people don't see it that way.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 3:56 pm

So the task is to show that Brexit is the economy without being accused of being Project Fear.
Which brings us on to Paul's thing about a positive future Europe.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Sat 29 Jul, 2017 4:00 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jer ... 66231.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Labour should also remember that, while Westminster might be obsessed with Brexit, the average voter is much more interested in the economy
Brexit IS the economy.

The problems with the economy and the base on which it was based began well before the Brexit vote - the Brexit vote could also be seen as a consequence of the austerity economics of the Coalition Government

The tearing out of the civil service and the rest of the public services was mainly put in place between 2010 and 2015

Brexit is obviously having a significant negative impact on the economy and it will get worse but the focus on abstract concepts like the Single Market and the Custom's Union need to be translated more effectively into things that resonate with the general population who are not seeing the world as you do at the moment

The biggest issue in the economy for me is not necessarily Brexit but the response of the British people to the current economic situation by using unsecured debt to finance their spending - and again this has been happening since before the vote

As a final point, all that matters to a large number of people is that the wealth that they have in their house values is not put at risk....and that again has been the case since well before the financial crisis

So yes Brexit is a massive cloud on the horizon but there are plenty of other clouds that have actually been delivering rain in the here and now

The people have made their decisions three times - 2010, 2015 and 2017 - they want a Tory-ledd Government with cutting of services, cutting of taxes, very low interest rates, limited house building and a referendum on the EU......that is what Labour are battling against