Tuesday 1st August 2017

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refitman
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Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
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adam
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by adam »

From RoT last night
RogerOThornhill wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ns#history

English Baccalaureate: eligible qualifications

(Updated)
Interesting seeing Computing in the Science section - there was a time about 3 years ago when it was the government's Next Big Thing - there were bright young things betting involved and all pupils were going to learn how to code because they were all going to use it in the work environment in the future.

And now?

Barely a peep.

And the reason is that it got taken on by ministers - including the PM - who knew bugger all about computers...
Another reason is that there is nobody (I exaggerate, but you know what I mean) qualified to teach computer science who wants to teach computer science when they could be programming. We have a generation of ICT teachers who have, effectively become experts in teaching office applications.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

Morning.

https://news.rla.org.uk/landlords-cut-b ... ng-people/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Landlords cut back on renting to Young People


https://research.rla.org.uk/blog/access ... under-35s/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40630242" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


General election 2017: Brexit dominated voters' thoughts
By Prof Ed Fieldhouse & Dr Chris Prosser
University of Manchester
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40788180" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Message encryption a 'problem' - UK home secretary
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/exc ... .ofgEj5zoN" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Exclusive: How your chances of getting an NHS wheelchair vary wildly depending on where you live
A BuzzFeed News investigation also reveals 96% of areas are failing to supply wheelchairs within the 18 weeks guaranteed by the NHS constitution.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
Labour is right: social mobility is not a good goal for education (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... al-schools
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by StephenDolan »

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-40788180


Message encryption a 'problem' - UK home secretary
I'm sure I read somewhere that white house staff mobiles were checked to see if they had Signal installed?
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.bustle.com/p/did-sean-spice ... ache-40881" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by Lost Soul »

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40630242


General election 2017: Brexit dominated voters' thoughts
By Prof Ed Fieldhouse & Dr Chris Prosser
University of Manchester
'It really was about Brexit'

Thank you. It was for me, as well as the people I have actual contact with. ( though not necessarily some 'online' )

I did vote Labour - but for my local MP. Not because I'm happy with the 'British public/majority voted to jump off the cliff so we've just got to knuckle down and get on with it' approach.
We voted for the opposition...

It was a very small majority. A small, misled, lied to majority.

I am going to keep bangin' on about Brexit. Not going to shut up.
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
howsillyofme1
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by howsillyofme1 »

I don't think anyone would expect or want people to stop campaigning and saying what they think but AK is right to point out some of the difficulties

What I have always maintained is that for anyone wanting to have a close relationship with the EU post Brexit the situation is much more complex than just saying 'Norway' or 'Switzerland' - there is no off-the-shelf package that would match the expectations of the Brits with what the EU would offer. Whoever is looking to find a way to balance this is going to find it very hard to do

The two 'easy' options are to leave altogether and have no meaningful trade deal...we just go our own way if we do not get what we want.....or we decide not to leave and the status quo is maintained. When I say 'easy' I mean from a process point of view. Politically not leaving is very difficult to envisage at the moment and economically the leave altogether option will be disastrous

I will just illustrate with an example

Ireland/UK say there must be a 'soft' border between the two countries. The EU already provides options for this - people movement covered by Schengen, goods movement by the CU, regulatory alignment by the SM.

So if the UK and Ireland want to avoid passport checks at the border, then join Schengen. Easy....or, perhaps, not!

The UK/Ireland want to have some bespoke agreement that allows the Common Travel Area to continue between a non-EU and EU country that doesn't apply to other EU citizens......perhaps this is possible but it seems a bit optimistic to me

There are other options but they look a bit messy and would involve the island of Ireland being treated specially and the border exists at the British border.....can see the DUP being keen on that

The devil is always in the detail and the detail is looking pretty tricky from where I stand
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by Lost Soul »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.

There is a difference between accepting and agreeing though.

I don't think it's simple. But I don't think the 'wait and see', 'something will turn up' approach is the right one to take.
Can't remember the link - but 'micawber ( spelling ) rings a bell.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Lost Soul wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.
There is a difference between accepting and agreeing though.
Sure, but that gap is where a great many people currently are. The feeling that "we voted out and so it has to happen" is strong.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
StephenDolan
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by StephenDolan »

DFH and Segalov still on-going I see.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

StephenDolan wrote:DFH and Segalov still on-going I see.
No prizes for guessing who is getting the better of that one either.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by StephenDolan »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
StephenDolan wrote:DFH and Segalov still on-going I see.
No prizes for guessing who is getting the better of that one either.
Indeed. Trumpian levels of "it's just a scratch" on display.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by Lost Soul »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Lost Soul wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.
There is a difference between accepting and agreeing though.
Sure, but that gap is where a great many people currently are. The feeling that "we voted out and so it has to happen" is strong.
Defeatists ! :(

My 'we' is the one 'they' want to leave. Which leaves me feeling more than a bit uncomfortable.
PorFavor
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Britain’s corrupted housing market needs more than a lick of paint

Abi Wilkinson (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -35-profit
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

One person's defeatist is another person's realist. Twas ever thus.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
SpinningHugo
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.

It is quite simple.

Labour should be adopting a position that does not lead to disaster for the UK. That involves not, say, voting for art 50 without conditions.

Instead it has adopted its electorally optimal position: just slightly more Remain-y than the Tories (though in recent weeks it has become slightly more Brexit-y).

Why?

because

(1) the leadership is dominated by closet Lexiters

(2) on the right of the party, the likes of the moronic Flint want to end freedom of movement

(3) relative electoral success has quietened the pro-Europe rump.

Only judged by the idiotic game playing view of politics, seen as a sport, can this be judged as anything other than appalling.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by Lost Soul »

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.

It is quite simple.

Labour should be adopting a position that does not lead to disaster for the UK. That involves not, say, voting for art 50 without conditions.

Instead it has adopted its electorally optimal position: just slightly more Remain-y than the Tories (though in recent weeks it has become slightly more Brexit-y).

Why?

because

(1) the leadership is dominated by closet Lexiters

(2) on the right of the party, the likes of the moronic Flint want to end freedom of movement

(3) relative electoral success has quietened the pro-Europe rump.

Only judged by the idiotic game playing view of politics, seen as a sport, can this be judged as anything other than appalling.
Before the 'pile on' starts - I'm broadly ( though not 100% ) in agreement with that, and not isolated amongst my Labour voting friends and relatives.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by gilsey »

The EU’s Avoidable Greek Tragedy

by Reiner Hoffmann on 26 July 2017 (Reiner Hoffmann is the Chairman of the German Trade Union Confederation DGB.)
https://www.socialeurope.eu/eu-member-s ... ek-tragedy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Greece needs investment in the real economy. The Juncker Program and the European Social and Structural Funds have available plenty of money, for instance an additional tranche of €970m of Structural Fund monies and an extraordinary tranche of €11bn shifted from the EU budget. Greece fails to draw down this money sufficiently, because its administration lacks capacity and scale – part of the Troika-program includes a radical downsizing of the state apparatus.
:wall:
Read the whole piece and weep.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by gilsey »

How can Labour's position lead to disaster for the UK when it's not in govt? If it was, it's position might be different. Take your conjecture somewhere else.

edited to add - not you, Lost Soul.
Last edited by gilsey on Tue 01 Aug, 2017 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by gilsey »

Lost Soul wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.

There is a difference between accepting and agreeing though.

I don't think it's simple. But I don't think the 'wait and see', 'something will turn up' approach is the right one to take.
Can't remember the link - but 'micawber ( spelling ) rings a bell.
Here's a convincing argument about why waiting isn't the right approach.
https://www.socialeurope.eu/brexit-can- ... osing-fast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our political reality won't let us turn back now, and the EU's political reality won't let us turn back later.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by gilsey »

gilsey wrote: Our political reality won't let us turn back now, and the EU's political reality won't let us turn back later.
There could be a sweet spot in the middle but I wouldn't put money on it.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Good-afternoon, everyone
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by Willow904 »

gilsey wrote:
Lost Soul wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Yes, but the same survey also says most people have accepted we are leaving (this is backed up by other polling evidence)

Which is why it isn't as simple for Labour as some of the "48%ers" would have us think.

There is a difference between accepting and agreeing though.

I don't think it's simple. But I don't think the 'wait and see', 'something will turn up' approach is the right one to take.
Can't remember the link - but 'micawber ( spelling ) rings a bell.
Here's a convincing argument about why waiting isn't the right approach.
https://www.socialeurope.eu/brexit-can- ... osing-fast" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Our political reality won't let us turn back now, and the EU's political reality won't let us turn back later.
Yes, good article. It sums up my fears about the assumptions being made about the exiting process. In some ways arguments about the will of the people have become redundant. In triggering article 50 the mandate created by the referendum has already been fulfilled. We are leaving the EU and this is unlikely to be reversed at this late stage. We have already moved onto the next question, the terms of our exit and the recent election didn't provide the mandate for hard Brexit Theresa May asked for, so remaining in the single market should very much remain an option and those who favour it have every democratic right to argue for it, IMO.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by SpinningHugo »

gilsey wrote:How can Labour's position lead to disaster for the UK when it's not in govt? If it was, it's position might be different. Take your conjecture somewhere else.

edited to add - not you, Lost Soul.

We have a hung Parliament.

With an opposition party backing a Hard Brexit there is no chance to peel off the few sensible Tories there are who would try to stop us going over the cliff. Labour has given the Hard Brexiters in government space, knowing Labour isn't going to argue that we should stay in the single market and customs union. Indeed it has a leader who claims that you can't stay in the single market if you leave the EU.

And so we go over the cliff.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by Lost Soul »

...with the most inept bunch of idiots steering


http://uk.businessinsider.com/former-eu ... way-2017-7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ls#history" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Guidance
Work Capability Assessment handbook: for healthcare professionals

(Updated)
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ry-schools" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Research and analysis
Diversity and social cohesion in Oldham secondary schools
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -as-a-loan" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Research and analysis
Support for Mortgage Interest: attitudes towards taking the support as a loan


This report examines attitudes towards the changes to Support for Mortgage Interest (SMI) from a benefit to a state-backed loan.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Why do people keep insinuating people should stop arguing for their version of what Brexit looks like?

I do not think anyone has ever said otherwise but at the same time it had to be accepted that others do not agree

Staying in the Single Market is more complex than it seems for a non-EU member is my contention.

And Hugo, the Remain Tories have been noticeable more for the noise they make than their actual voting record....I have no confidence in Tory Remainers actually voting against their party - apart from Clarke perhaps

At the moment there is no indication that the Government is actually doing any negotiating
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by Willow904 »

I want more debate about Brexit options, not less. I would like to see the government challenged on their hard Brexit stance, especially given May failed to win the mandate for it that she asked for. I would like to see many more questions asked about why the government has ruled out staying in the single market. I'd like to see a lot more information about the government's thinking, a detailed white paper, showing why they think hard Brexit will benefit us more than a soft one. To be frank, I'd just like to hear soft Brexit being mentioned as an option at all once in a while, without being deliberately obfuscated and confused with the very different topic of not Brexiting at all.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

How northern rail connections have hit the buffers

Peter Hetherington


https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ers-trains" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... r-industry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The car has a chokehold on Britain. It’s time to free ourselves

George Monbiot
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... es-cartoon" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin Rowson on electricity price rises
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Webster: ‘Benefit sanctions should be a thing of the past’
The economist and Glasgow research fellow on why stopping benefit payments is counterproductive and must not be rolled out more widely
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... r-industry

The car has a chokehold on Britain. It’s time to free ourselves

George Monbiot
Good article & comments below the line not bad either, from what I've read so far.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

Sorry to hear that I aim to displease
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 02 Aug, 2017 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are_btn_tw

David Webster: ‘Benefit sanctions should be a thing of the past’
The economist and Glasgow research fellow on why stopping benefit payments is counterproductive and must not be rolled out more widely
(cJA emphasis)
I'm dismayed noticing the sensible idea of tossing out benefit sanctions altogether wasn't in my head prior reading someone else suggesting it.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

;)
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

It was a joke,I link what I think/know people are interested in.
Last edited by HindleA on Tue 01 Aug, 2017 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

And the bloody wink is out of intended order.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by citizenJA »

HindleA wrote:It was a joke,I link what I think/know people are interested in.
Raise all the hell you want, I say
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... rimination" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

How much equality is Britain willing to accept?

Hugh Muir
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by PorFavor »

@HindleA

Where\why'd it go? It raised some interesting philosophical questions.
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Re: Tuesday 1st August 2017

Post by PorFavor »

@citizen JA

Night night.
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