Thursday 3rd August 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:01 am

Morning

Mental health patients stranded in units for years
By George Greenwood and Michael Buchanan

Mental health patients across the UK are spending years stranded in acute units awaiting discharge, figures show.
Over the past two years, at least 91 patients have waited more than a year to be discharged, with at least seven patients waiting more than two years.
At least 320 patients had to wait at least 100 days to be discharged, BBC Freedom of Information requests show.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:22 am

"The benefits cap was making it harder for providers to meet demand for accommodation for patients in the community.
"We know around the country of supported housing placements closing down as a result of this.
"We also know of supported housing that was going to come online being shelved by large housing providers who are in this space."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:31 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ping-point" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Government cuts 'leave sexual health services at tipping point'
With demand rising, councils say patients face longer waits to see a specialist and efforts to tackle outbreaks could be hit

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:34 am

Have written to the Crossword Dispute Resolution Service for a ruling on Private Eye's inclusion of "covfefe" as an answer.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 9:32 am

Morning all.

A second Brexit referendum? It’s looking more likely by the day

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -life-raft

Some British politicians suffer from an imperial reflex, however. For them, Britain lies at the centre of the world. We only have to state our aims and other countries will be generous enough to help us achieve them. Last year Brexiteers argued that Britain should leave an EU composed of ill-intentioned foreigners whose interests were in conflict with its own. This year it has been magically transformed into a charitable institution that can be relied on to safeguard our interests.

Quite.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 9:35 am

HaveIGotNewsForYou‏Verified account @haveigotnews 20h20 hours ago
More
Older Brexit voters think ‘economic carnage’ is price worth paying, according to a survey of 1,000 people who have since died.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 10:13 am

http://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-po ... ket-2017-8" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The ComRes poll for the BBC found that 66% of all UK voters believe that maintaining free trade with the EU should be the prime minister's priority in Brexit negotiations, compared to just 31% who believe she should prioritise reducing immigration.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 10:16 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

A second Brexit referendum? It’s looking more likely by the day

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -life-raft

Some British politicians suffer from an imperial reflex, however. For them, Britain lies at the centre of the world. We only have to state our aims and other countries will be generous enough to help us achieve them. Last year Brexiteers argued that Britain should leave an EU composed of ill-intentioned foreigners whose interests were in conflict with its own. This year it has been magically transformed into a charitable institution that can be relied on to safeguard our interests.
Quite.

You can watch the full lecture at gresham.ac.uk

All bogdanors lectures are worth watching.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 10:20 am

http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/201 ... ebate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Britain's Unreal Brexit Transition Debate"

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 11:45 am

Good-morning, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 11:46 am

Good to read RobertSnozers this morning, I've missed his contributions

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 12:13 pm

citizenJA wrote:Good to read RobertSnozers this morning, I've missed his contributions

Seconded, always worth reading. It helps that I largely agree with what he just wrote

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 1:11 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... tion-fears" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bank of England keeps interest rates on hold despite inflation fears

An initial move back to 0.5% is probably likely sooner rather than later now, I suspect, as inflation is picking up pace. It only went down to 0.25% a year ago, so the impact of reversing that may not be too great. The big test will be a move above the 0.5% that we've been on since April 2009. As interest rates start to go back up, we'll get a sense of just how fragile our current asset-skewed, bubble-oriented economy truly is.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 1:34 pm

I would avoid Abi Wilkinson's mentions this morning if I were you (she mentioned......gasp.......VENEZUELA)

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 1:50 pm

Paragraphs 37 to 41. Shaming.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content ... 170803.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 1:52 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -franchise" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Open consultation
Future of East Midlands rail franchise

https://www.smartsurvey.co.uk/s/A4OY4/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 1:54 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I would avoid Abi Wilkinson's mentions this morning if I were you (she mentioned......gasp.......VENEZUELA)

Ken Livingstone on the other hand. Deary me.

Toby Young, Rentoul etc aren't exactly covering themselves in glory either.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 1:56 pm

Unfortunately, I think Bogdanor does indeed underestimate just how spineless Labour is on Brexit, for well rehearsed reasons, and will back in the end whatever the Tories come up with. Shaming for those who voted for either of the Brexit parties, but there we are.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:05 pm

Tarquin in a strop again because of non-inclusion of household for eligibility to vote purposes.I have this every year.Even "sharing" any vote and involving him in the process doesn't really placate him.I can only offer shared disdain at the blatant discrimination and denial of rights.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:20 pm

HindleA wrote:Tarquin in a strop again because of non-inclusion of household for eligibility to vote purposes.I have this every year.Even "sharing" any vote and involving him in the process doesn't really placate him.I can only offer shared disdain at the blatant discrimination and denial of rights.

Wait till he joins the DUP - involving him in discussions on 'sharing' will cost you a fortune.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:22 pm

StephenDolan wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I would avoid Abi Wilkinson's mentions this morning if I were you (she mentioned......gasp.......VENEZUELA)
Ken Livingstone on the other hand. Deary me

Again

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:28 pm

Lawnmowing turtle for sale.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:30 pm

HindleA wrote:Lawnmowing turtle for sale.

That must take ages using a rapier.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:31 pm

Ms Davidson posted pictures of her visit to the farm in the middle of Edinburgh on twitter. They included a picture of her running through a field with her arms outstretched. “Great to visit @GorgieCityFarm in my constituency with the @ScotsTories team,” she tweeted, then added: “I was encouraged to run through their field of wheat. Naughty.”

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/r ... -1-4521304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Somebody's going to get a ticking off when the boss gets back from holiday.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:46 pm

Giant, smelly ‘corpse flower’ blooms in Edinburgh

http://www.scotsman.com/news/giant-smel ... -1-4519741" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's a whole host of political jokes and cartoons in there somewhere.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 2:49 pm

HindleA wrote:Lawnmowing turtle for sale.

Willing to emigrate?

http://www.scotsman.com/news/easyjet-ap ... -1-4519700" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 3:06 pm

More on the case SH referred to

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ecure-care" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 3:29 pm

http://www.politico.eu/article/united-k ... nt-see-it/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Viewed from Brussels, the U.K. seemed so ill-prepared in the early rounds of Brexit negotiations that some EU countries think it must be a trap.

Can't tell if this is serious or not

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 3:32 pm

Noise from roads

There’s no legal limit to road noise, although noise levels might be taken into account when new roads or houses and offices near roads are planned.

https://www.gov.uk/noise-pollution-road ... from-roads

wow

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 3:43 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... disability" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The UK’s hidden shame: disabled people trapped at home with no wheelchair
Evidence of the dire state of NHS wheelchair provision across the country shows that the system is failing the very people who need it most

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 3:59 pm

Susan B Good as ever infesting the comments with her stupidity.An appropriate wheelchair(s)in a timely fashion is beneficial to all,not least the NHS,not hard.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 4:14 pm

RIP Hywel Bennett.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 4:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:RIP Hywel Bennett.

...and Robert Hardy

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 5:11 pm

Outsourcing problems at the Ministry of Justice

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ms-prisons

Rushed outsourcing puts additional strain on creaking justice system

The Ministry of Justice (MoJ) can scarcely go a month without a bad news story related to one of its outsourced services. The recent outsourcing of probation services - which the Institute for Government (IfG) and many others warned was rushed and risky - is not going well. Many of the new private providers say they are making big losses, despite the department providing them with some additional cash, and probation inspections are revealing concerns with the majority of outsourced work.

There was uproar when MoJ announced that G4S would be providing electronic monitoring services for offenders, given the company is still under investigation for allegedly overcharging the department for the same services between 2005 and 2013.

And this week, The Times published a Ministry of Justice admission that the savings promised when it outsourced maintenance of prison buildings to two companies in 2014 would not be delivered.

There have long been complaints about the quality of the work performed by Carillon and GEO Amey in different regions. And a recently published MoJ report reveals that “historically the costs of maintenance and services were not clearly understood by the business and consequently planning assumptions have not held true. The contract is therefore underfunded and the declared efficiency savings reduced.”

Anyone in the least bit surprised?

About time this ideological fetish with outsourcing came to an end. I doubt it will though.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 5:14 pm

Outsourcing was a big enthusiasm of Progress types, not just Tories.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 5:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Outsourcing was a big enthusiasm of Progress types, not just Tories.

Yes, under the guise of "public sector reform."

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 5:54 pm

Even in my more "centrist" days, I found the obsession of certain people with "public sector reform" a colossal turn off.

Somebody as uncompromisingly Corbyn-sceptic as Luke Akehurst has cited it as a major reason why he voted for Ed M rather than his brother in 2010.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 6:05 pm

Hi all

It is not just the public sector that has taken up with outsourcing - it is a favourite of 'management consultants' in the private secret...cuff-linked and rolexed youngsters with no real understanding of the real world

The company outsources things, pays for every little thing done over an above a very strict contract and are surprised that there is no desire to go further or there is a lack of flexibility.

Some things can be outsourced but, in reality, those that work well are pretty limited and work best for small companies where there is no value in bringing in-house expensive skills that are only used occasionally

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 6:40 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
It is not just the public sector that has taken up with outsourcing - it is a favourite of 'management consultants' in the private secret...cuff-linked and rolexed youngsters with no real understanding of the real world

That happened to us when I was working in IT. To simplify:

"Come and look at out IS/IT department"
"OK. We recommend you outsource the whole thing"
"Who to?
"Er...us!"

Two years - and a few million - later, back it came. Wasted two years development work while the rest of our Group who didn't do this raced ahead. By then virtually all of our SAP specialists had left.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 6:44 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Outsourcing problems at the Ministry of Justice

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ms-prisons

Anyone in the least bit surprised?

About time this ideological fetish with outsourcing came to an end. I doubt it will though.

How many people does it take to change a light bulb in a prison?

Pre-outsourcing: Prisons employed 'works officers' - trained prison officers who were also electricians, joiners, painters etc. If a light bulb in a cell needed changing, a discipline officer would call a passing works officer who would likely have a spare bulb in his toolbox. Bulb changed, no delay.

Post-outsourcing: Discipline officer fills in a request for a new bulb and passes it to an admin person. Admin person collects requests, notes the contractual cost of each and when there are enough to warrant a visit from the outsourced company, arranges it.
Electrician comes, does requested work, agrees with admin what has been done, and hence the cost. The bill arrives, is checked by admin and paid.

But, you may say, the outsourced electrician saves the cost of a prison officer. Not so! A prison officer must accompany the contractor at all times - for safety and security reasons.

Crazy?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:08 pm

That sounds very odd. There's not enough work in a prison to keep someone on site?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:08 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Outsourcing problems at the Ministry of Justice

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ms-prisons

Rushed outsourcing puts additional strain on creaking justice system
Anyone in the least bit surprised?

About time this ideological fetish with outsourcing came to an end. I doubt it will though.

(cJA edit)
From the article---

The long-term solution lies in improving overall commercial capability in Whitehall.

Current plans to improve commercial capability in Whitehall are focused on the right issues. But they will not succeed unless ministers and permanent secretaries recognise the importance of the issue, invest in the resources required to oversee multi-million pound contracts effectively and involve departmental commercial experts in key outsourcing decisions at an earlier stage.

(cJA emphasis)
What exactly is commercial capability and why does government require it, please?
What are departmental commercial experts? What's the job description?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:11 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:That sounds very odd. There's not enough work in a prison to keep someone on site?

Zero-hour contract or self-employed designation of personnel might look better on someone's spreadsheet

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:18 pm

citizenJA wrote: What exactly is commercial capability and why does government require it, please?
What are departmental commercial experts? What's the job description?

Somebody who knows enough about the work to be outsourced, and how much it might reasonably cost, in order to prevent the contractor ripping the department off.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:24 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:That sounds very odd. There's not enough work in a prison to keep someone on site?

There might be, in the bigger establishments - but this would generally not be in the interest of the contractor. An on-site person might be tempted to do work which was not specified in the contract. (And they would still need a prison officer escort).

Experience in the private sector (a long time ago) taught me that it's what isn't in the contract that produces the big profits!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:32 pm

Eric_WLothian wrote:
citizenJA wrote: What exactly is commercial capability and why does government require it, please?
What are departmental commercial experts? What's the job description?
Somebody who knows enough about the work to be outsourced, and how much it might reasonably cost, in order to prevent the contractor ripping the department off.

Outsourcing created the necessity of having commercial capacity

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 7:41 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... of-them-is" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Leaseholds are not the problem – abuse of them is
This scandal shows how normal it has become to expect to ‘earn’ exploitative rewards without risk or commensurate investment, writes Stephen Hill

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 8:07 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Eric_WLothian wrote:
citizenJA wrote: What exactly is commercial capability and why does government require it, please?
What are departmental commercial experts? What's the job description?
Somebody who knows enough about the work to be outsourced, and how much it might reasonably cost, in order to prevent the contractor ripping the department off.
Outsourcing created the necessity of having commercial capacity

I'm unhappy with my posts. I'm not denigrating the work of departmental commercial experts. If government requires commercial capability, departmental commercial experts are necessary staff.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 8:10 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... te-warning" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Guardian view on ‘blood on our hands’: the law’s ultimate warning
Editorial

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 03 Aug, 2017 8:18 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017 ... rta-google" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lessons from the fast lane: does this study prove car-pooling works?
When Jakarta ditched its controversial ‘three-in-one’ car-sharing rule many in the city expected the traffic to get better. It didn’t. A Harvard and MIT study analysed before-and-after Google traffic data to find out what happened