Thursday 10th August 2017

Post by **refitman** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 7:10 am

Morning all.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 8:08 am

Morning.

Right-wing satire strikes again. Not enough tumbleweed in the world to convey how unspeakably shit and contemptibly unfunny this is.

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Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 9:02 am

NonOxCol wrote:Morning.

Right-wing satire strikes again. Not enough tumbleweed in the world to convey how unspeakably shit and contemptibly unfunny this is.

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Yes quite excruciating.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 9:33 am

Morning all.

Let's begin with a quiz. Who wrote this and what is his party allegiance?

Meanwhile, as the country has grown weary of the sacrifices required by years of austerity, people have witnessed a return – if in some cases it ever went away – of largesse and irresponsibility among the powerful. They see bosses exploiting their staff, big businesses ripping off their customers and directors taking risks with the company pension. International corporations seem to see paying the smallest sums of tax as generous acts of charity.

While pay for the many has been frozen, for the few it has rocketed: in 1998 CEOs were paid on average 47 times what their employees earned; now that ratio has reached 128. Over the same period, the value of the firms they run has hardly increased at all.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 9:59 am

Having failed with irony or humour, so far today,
I'm going to guess at George Osborne?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:02 am

http://www.agonlimited.com/news/2017/8/ ... oadcasting" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

World Chess To Introduce Biometrics Into The World Chess Championship Broadcasting

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:03 am

Tim Montgomerie?

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:06 am

Nick Timothy

Tories cannot be free-market fundamentalists

The Prime Minister likes to use her walking holidays as a time to think things through. When she returned from Wales, in April, she rang me to say she had decided to hold the general election. By the time she returns from Switzerland, next week, she will be ready to deal with its aftermath.

As she and most Tory MPs know, the party needs to unite around a purpose rather than squabble over the ambitions of individual ministers. That purpose ought to be obvious, for both the EU referendum and the election were mass votes of dissatisfaction, and votes for change.
The evidence justifies the dissatisfaction. In real terms average wages are lower than they were 10 years ago. Even before the financial crash, the chances of owning one’s own home had started to fall, and now young people find themselves not only heavily indebted after university but also trapped for years in rented accommodation. Incredibly, more people in England now own their home outright than pay a mortgage, demonstrating not just the difficulties faced by the hard-pressed and the young, but the consolidation of wealth by the affluent and the elderly.
Meanwhile, as the country has grown weary of the sacrifices required by years of austerity, people have witnessed a return – if in some cases it ever went away – of largesse and irresponsibility among the powerful. They see bosses exploiting their staff, big businesses ripping off their customers and directors taking risks with the company pension. International corporations seem to see paying the smallest sums of tax as generous acts of charity.
While pay for the many has been frozen, for the few it has rocketed: in 1998 CEOs were paid on average 47 times what their employees earned; now that ratio has reached 128. Over the same period, the value of the firms they run has hardly increased at all.

As Theresa May has observed, modern Britain is simply not a country that works for everyone. But to get that diagnosis right is not enough. We need solutions, and to find the right solutions we need a deep and coherent understanding of the problems.
For the Conservatives, that requires going back to the party’s philosophical roots. Economic liberals may find capitalism’s “creative winds of destruction” exhilarating, but conservatives worry about the effects on families and communities. Libertarians may say they have no responsibility to others, but conservatives know that society functions only if we respect our obligations to one another. Internationalist liberals may consider the nation state an anachronism, but conservatives understand how the cultures, traditions and institutions of a country help to bring about the trust, reciprocity and stability that make a society worth living in and an economy capable of growing.
As the great conservative philosopher Edmund Burke said, more than two centuries ago, society is indeed a contract. It is a contract between those who govern and those who are governed, between the classes, the generations and citizens across the whole country.

Today, many of the problems facing Britain arise because we have forgotten the terms of that contract. An older generation is more prosperous than any before it, while younger people face the prospect of a life less comfortable than that of their parents. Opportunities abound in London and the South East of England, but incomes are lower and jobs more scarce further north and west. According to the government’s own independent commission, social mobility is in reverse.

Few of the challenges we face will be overcome through yet more of the social and economic liberalism we have seen for the past 30 years. No market, for example, has emerged to provide the social care needs of an ageing society. Few competitors have entered the broken markets that allow companies to over-charge their customers. Little progress has been made in rebalancing Britain’s economy – neither geographically nor by finally overcoming our over-reliance on financial services – that has not been stimulated by the state.

The election result suggests that the public agree that it is time for a break from the liberal consensus. A full 82.4 per cent of the country voted for the two main political parties, the highest combined vote share since 1970. They were not voting for an ever-smaller state and free market fundamentalism, but for a return to pre-liberal socialism, with Jeremy Corbyn, or the beginnings of a post-liberal conservatism, offered by Mrs May.
The country is at least safe from Mr Corbyn’s back-to-the-future socialism for another five years. But if the Conservatives respond to the election result by seeking a return to their comfort zone of liberal orthodoxy, not only will they fail to address the big social and economic challenges Britain faces, they will risk the election of dangerous socialists in 2022. As we look ahead to a long, five-year parliament, the need for a reformed, post-liberal conservatism is more urgent than ever.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:19 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Nick Timothy

We need solutions, and to find the right solutions we need a deep and coherent understanding of the problems.

Making it quite clear that they've no idea what the solutions are.
Yet he thinks they're going to carry on for 5 years and do what?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:25 am

He's one of the few people I've ever seen who actually looks older after shaving their beard off

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:37 am

I'm free on kindle for the next few days... " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In other news Nigel Lawson is a climate change denying arsehole

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:52 am

David Allen Green's brexit round-up
http://jackofkent.com/2017/08/brexit-ro ... -scotland/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 10:54 am

Temulkar wrote: In other news Nigel Lawson is a climate change denying arsehole

I think the bbc will be receiving many complaints judging by what I'm seeing on twitter, hopefully they'll finally take it on board.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 11:00 am

gilsey wrote:
Temulkar wrote: In other news Nigel Lawson is a climate change denying arsehole
I think the bbc will be receiving many complaints judging by what I'm seeing on twitter, hopefully they'll finally take it on board.

Oddly enough I see it as a positive - that their side has to have a spokesman with no recognised and peer-reviewed scientific background. More worrying to me if they had such a person.

So long as he's introduced as "Former Chancellor Lord Lawson" viewers should be able to draw their own conclusions.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 11:05 am

Good morfternoon.

Rogue Charles Dickens apostrophe costs council (BBC News website)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-40878110

Edited to add -

The capital "B" in "Bring" is a bit redundant too, I feel.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 11:54 am

Amazon UK halves corporation tax to £7.4m as sales soar to £7bn

Company says low profits led to tax cut, but is yet to reveal complex corporate structure that publishes revenue from retail sales via Luxembourg

Amazon UK’s corporation tax bill halved to £7.4m last year despite its retail sales soaring past £7bn.

Amazon UK Services – the company’s warehouse and logistics operation that employs almost two-thirds of its 24,000 UK staff – saw its UK corporation tax bill plunge from £15.8m to £7.4m year-on-year in 2016. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... oar-to-7bn

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 12:05 pm

Amazon UK’s corporation tax bill halved to £7.4m last year despite its retail sales soaring past £7bn.

I do wish the media wouldn't do this - the two aren't related in any way.

From what I've read Amazon do some fairly tricksy things with their accounts by using offshore companies but quoting turnover numbers is an irrelevance.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 12:18 pm

For example, the group I used to work for had UK companies working in manufacturing, trading, storage, and technology - each one had different levels of profitability compared to turnover and none could be related to any other.

This, by the way, is also the reason why a turnover tax instead of a tax on profits wouldn't work.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 12:19 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Amazon UK’s corporation tax bill halved to £7.4m last year despite its retail sales soaring past £7bn.
I do wish the media wouldn't do this - the two aren't related in any way.

From what I've read Amazon do some fairly tricksy things with their accounts by using offshore companies but quoting turnover numbers is an irrelevance.

True enough - the story is the halving of their corporation tax bill. The rest is just padding and a distraction.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 12:27 pm

Temulkar wrote:I'm free on kindle for the next few days... " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In other news Nigel Lawson is a climate change denying arsehole

This is true, but it is surely not "news"??

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 12:51 pm

I was going to listen to a radio programme but (re a request to register and provide my age) -

This is so we can see how people of different ages are using the BBC and check that we're making something for everyone. It also means that you can use the parts of the BBC that are suitable for your age. Find out more about how we use your data.

Probably intended to protect children but it's peed me off (and it's ineffectual). I spotted something else on the BBC site the other day which claimed to be designed to point me in the direction of things that they think would interest me. Sod off. I'll make up my own mind. I neither want nor need to be herded in one direction or another.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 1:25 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:For example, the group I used to work for had UK companies working in manufacturing, trading, storage, and technology - each one had different levels of profitability compared to turnover and none could be related to any other.

This, by the way, is also the reason why a turnover tax instead of a tax on profits wouldn't work.

Exactly.

I read an interesting thing the other day about Amazon
Lots of their growth has been having unusual investors who know the score- money doesn't get taken out of the business lightly for dividends etc. So I presume there are huge investment credits reducing tax bills.

But I'm sure there's much more questionable stuff too.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 1:39 pm

INteresting from the skwakbox (I know) on Venezuela https://skwawkbox.org/2017/08/10/whats- ... who-knows/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 1:52 pm

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/mortg ... _campaign=" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mortgage repossession claims on the rise

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 1:58 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... -june-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK overseas trade statistics (OTS) data detailing international trade in goods at summary product and country level.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:00 pm

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... a-2017-18/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Delayed Transfers of Care

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:01 pm

Tony Blair's gone on holiday with the PM of a Commonwealth country. All good, old fashioned stuff, right?

NO! It's the leader of EU member. Who wants Britain to stay in the EU! Treachery!

The Express is actually saying that.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:02 pm

https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/ukindex ... onjune2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK index of production: June 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:12 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1640193 ... of-theresa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour Press
NHS patients cannot afford another year of Theresa May - Corbyn

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:15 pm

Temulkar wrote:INteresting from the skwakbox (I know) on Venezuela https://skwawkbox.org/2017/08/10/whats- ... who-knows/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thank you.

I do hope the BBC isn't really the worst offender, but I fear this may be true

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:17 pm

I barely look human with or without facial hair.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:19 pm

Never managed more than bum fluff status,I would be constantly setting fire to myself if an actual.resemblance to "beard)so shaving it is.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:30 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -on-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

experts-strike-back-how-economists-proved-right-on-brexit

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Tweet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Cameron’s legacy is soaring child poverty – with worse to come
Frances Ryan

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:38 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:41 pm

https://www.unison.org.uk/news/2017/08/ ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Renationalise failing privatised probation services, say unions

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 2:47 pm

https://www.unison.org.uk/news/press-re ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 3:04 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Tweet

David Cameron’s legacy is soaring child poverty – with worse to come
Frances Ryan

Seriously, is there any respect in which Dave "I want to be PM because I would be quite good at it" Cameron's legacy ISN'T rank bad??

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 3:13 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.unison.org.uk/news/2017/08/ ... ign=buffer

Renationalise failing privatised probation services, say unions

Absolutely.

Blair/Brown had a look at "contestability", or tendering, but that was a too far.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 3:40 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/more ... s-services" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

News story
More seats for rail passengers as nearly £1 billion is invested in Midlands services

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 3:41 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... r-evidence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Open consultation
A new aviation strategy for the UK: call for evidence

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 3:42 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Tweet

David Cameron’s legacy is soaring child poverty – with worse to come
Frances Ryan
Seriously, is there any respect in which Dave "I want to be PM because I would be quite good at it" Cameron's legacy ISN'T rank bad??

They got a fair bit of money into rail, which would have been a very easy thing to cut more from. They spoiled it by stupid over-promising and deception when there were problems.

That is literally the only thing I can think of. And no great vision involved, just not destroying the impetus the industry had before.

Temulkar · Post by **Temulkar** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:10 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Tweet

David Cameron’s legacy is soaring child poverty – with worse to come
Frances Ryan
Seriously, is there any respect in which Dave "I want to be PM because I would be quite good at it" Cameron's legacy ISN'T rank bad??

Same sex marriage.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:11 pm

Saw this yesterday but then Twitter did its irritating "In case you missed it" and I couldn't find it again.

MPs react after Vote Leave economist admits Brexit would 'mostly eliminate manufacturing'

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... e-11269819

He went on to echo this statement in The Sun recently, writing: “Over time, if we left the EU, it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, leaving mainly industries such as design, marketing and hi-tech. But this shouldn’t scare us.

“Around half of young adults now go to university, ending up in professions such as finance or law, while the making of things such as car parts or carpentry has hugely shrunk — but there will always be jobs for people without sophisticated skills.

“Of course leaving the EU will be difficult, and something that needs careful negotiation, but we must completely withdraw to gain these benefits.”

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:12 pm

Currently twelve months.

Under UC.
the delay which applies after a death before bedroom tax is applied are more limited. The rules state that the amount of Universal Credit paid after a member of the family dies continues to be paid at the same rate for the remainder of the month in which the person dies and the following 2 months. This rule applies to the full rate of Universal Credit including housing costs.

UC "Making the sick/disabled/carers/bereaved pay."

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:25 pm

Still enjoying himself and talking sense.

James Chapman‏
@jameschappers
James Chapman Retweeted Mick McKinderGentler
No - her appalling "citizens of world" rhetoric made EU citizens in UK like my wife feel profoundly distressed and unwelcome #notinmyname

And indeed anybody with remotely internationalist values.

But let's not kid ourselves May got an electoral knockback for it. She was zooming along while spouting this tripe.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:25 pm

Disappointed it was Tem's book which I already have that was free and not actually him as advertised.Consulting with ASA.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:30 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Saw this yesterday but then Twitter did its irritating "In case you missed it" and I couldn't find it again.

MPs react after Vote Leave economist admits Brexit would 'mostly eliminate manufacturing'

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... e-11269819

He went on to echo this statement in The Sun recently, writing: “Over time, if we left the EU, it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, leaving mainly industries such as design, marketing and hi-tech. But this shouldn’t scare us.

“Around half of young adults now go to university, ending up in professions such as finance or law, while the making of things such as car parts or carpentry has hugely shrunk — but there will always be jobs for people without sophisticated skills.

“Of course leaving the EU will be difficult, and something that needs careful negotiation, but we must completely withdraw to gain these benefits.”

There've always been these kind of "mad professor" types about (Graham Crowden can play the role if anybody makes a film about him). It's open season for them with Brexit. Along with businessmen "with a sense of history". The politicians used to keep them in their box. All we can hope is that the money talks, and they go back in their box.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 4:57 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/wemb ... ess-events" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

News story
Wembley and Old Trafford stage new season CT Awareness events

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 10 Aug, 2017 5:00 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... nt-finance" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Live tables on local government finance

(Borrowing and Investment 17/18 addition)