Tuesday 15th August 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 4:05 pm

Bloody bad enough they got in,without the reminders.Sadists.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 4:10 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hard Brexit makes deepest Labour right austerity look like the teddy bear's picnic.

It may well do but that wasn't the point of my comment though was it!

The point was that the aftermath of the 2007/2008 crash compounded by austerity has led to a real drop in living standards and the quality of life for the poor in the UK - at a time when we were in the EU. This where people were in June 2016, with years of more austerity promised by Osborne in 2015 with massive cuts to services

If the consequences of this policy had been considered by those in politics and the media rather than cheerleading it then perhaps we would not have seen the vote last year

There are no people who voted Leave who post here - not surprising with some of the abuse received by anyone who even tries to discuss how we move on from the vote - so I suggest that this is not a place where solutions will be found as those we need to persuade are absent

From the not unsubstantial number of people I know who voted Leave not many of them have been persuaded by the technical arguments made about the SM and CU, and are not particularly bothered by the economic potential cliff-edge coming when they have not seen a pay rise in years, have seen their personal circumstances deteriorate markedly and have read all the media that is happy to blame it on the EU and immigrants

If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies

That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 4:45 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote: If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies

That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here

He did, but he was dogged throughout by people in his own party nagging him that Labour had to say sorry for "mismanaging the economy" and "spending too much". And that was even before the Balls pivot towards a more austere economic policy in 2013-14.

(culminating in that godawful speech to the 2014 conference, doubtless made partly in the hope it would get praise from VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE. They remained as contemptuous of Labour as ever, whilst party activists were demoralised and UKIP nearly won the Heywood & Middleton byelection on a brazenly opportunistic but effective "stop the cuts" platform)

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:00 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies

That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here
He did, but he was dogged throughout by people in his own party nagging him that Labour had to say sorry for "mismanaging the economy" and "spending too much". And that was even before the Balls pivot towards a more austere economic policy in 2013-14.

(culminating in that godawful speech to the 2014 conference, doubtless made partly in the hope it would get praise from VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE. They remained as contemptuous of Labour as ever, whilst party activists were demoralised and UKIP nearly won the Heywood & Middleton byelection on a brazenly opportunistic but effective "stop the cuts" platform)

I agree AK - Miliband had definitely the capabilities to have been a really fantastic PM but lacked a certain amount of grit - and also he was undermined by those commentators who wanted a continuation of the Blair legacy through his less able, but politically more 'sound', brother

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:07 pm

Leaving in droves...the 4th such resignation from the Manufacturing Council. Trump's reaction after the one the other day typifies the man - small-minded and petty.

Scott Paul‏
@ScottPaulAAM
Follow
More
I'm resigning from the Manufacturing Jobs Initiative because it's the right thing for me to do.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:16 pm

the whole world done gone crazy

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:27 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies

That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here
He did, but he was dogged throughout by people in his own party nagging him that Labour had to say sorry for "mismanaging the economy" and "spending too much". And that was even before the Balls pivot towards a more austere economic policy in 2013-14.

(culminating in that godawful speech to the 2014 conference, doubtless made partly in the hope it would get praise from VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE. They remained as contemptuous of Labour as ever, whilst party activists were demoralised and UKIP nearly won the Heywood & Middleton byelection on a brazenly opportunistic but effective "stop the cuts" platform)

That just isn't true.

There weren't Labour MPs saying Labour spent too much or mismanaged the economy, certainly not Ed Balls who said no such thing.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:32 pm

Well most of them were speaking (surprise, surprise) on the condition of anonymity. But that it happened is beyond question.

If they didn't exist, then why on earth did Liz Kendall say Labour should aim for a permanent budget surplus in her ill-fated leadership campaign??

You are quite right Balls never said anything as daft as that, and even I have more respect for him than to imagine he would.

That 2014 speech was genuinely hideous and ill-judged though, and should haunt him for the rest of his days. It was a - small - factor in Labour's loss, I have very little doubt.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:36 pm

So are you suggesting AK is lying with his premise then Hugo?

I suggest you google it before you accuse someone of not telling the truth and look but here is one example for your personal favourite

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05 ... 81202.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and also I think you will find that Anatoly didn't say what you ascribed to him (a common propaganda trick and a favourite of people like you) about Balls - what he suggested that Balls went for austerity to and his confernce speech in 2014 makes that difficult to contradict....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 5:45 pm

UN Committee on Disability rights first full examinaion on UK next week.Convention signed by A.McGuire in '08,ratified the next year.Should have been earlier but delayed not least by inquiry launch and grave and systematic violations findings.This is more broad.

https://makingrightsmakesense.wordpress ... or-the-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Gov.Response

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-response" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... sabilities" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ing-enough" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:00 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/9813781 ... rty-annual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:13 pm

Ed Balls was talking tougher than he was. Which you could understand, but annoyed me much more was Lucas, Sturgeon, Wood etc with their "voted for £30bn Tory cuts". It was a shock for me how people on the left could either be so deceitful or so thick.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That's Labour finding departmental cuts of 1.4%, or £5.2bn. They could stick a load of investment spending on top of that too.

As for overspending, like any good political jibe, it's got some truth. Simon-Wren Lewis has said that Labour overspent slightly in the few years before the crisis. A Labour MP put on the spot couldn't deny it. Of course, it was nothing like as serious a mistake as the Coalition frontloaded austerity from 2010.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:20 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Leaving in droves...the 4th such resignation from the Manufacturing Council. Trump's reaction after the one the other day typifies the man - small-minded and petty.

Scott Paul‏
@ScottPaulAAM
Follow
More
I'm resigning from the Manufacturing Jobs Initiative because it's the right thing for me to do.

The fact that the bloke who resigned the other day was black might have had something to do with Trump's reaction.

Has he attacked any of the others yet?

Post by **refitman** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:22 pm

Temulkar wrote:So, I was at number 1 in Historical Fiction + No 2 in satire on Amazon free kindle charts over the weekend, beating both Voltaire's Candide and A Tale of Two Cities into 3rd/2nd respectively.

Book 2 is being launched in Oliver Cromwell's House at the end of September if anyone is close to Ely.

http://www.olivercromwellshouse.co.uk/i ... ll&id=2650" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Well done.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:28 pm

We cannot revisit the 2015 election - that is past and the people who were there are long gone - fortunately, I hope Miliband (who has stuck around) will be there to rise again at some point in a senior position within the party

The point being made was that if Labour had been more vocally anti-austerity and ensured that the blame for people's problems were due to lack of regulation of the global financial sector (which Labour do have some responsibility for) and the austerity of the Coalition - nothing to do with the EU or immigrants (although Labour fell for that one too).

There should have been no Labour leadership candidate saying that Labour over-spent (what Wren-Lewis says is just his opinion) which played straight into the Tory's hands and none should have blamed immigration for austerity

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:28 pm

Ah, I see Trump's had a go at the resigners collectively. Lots want to take their place, apparently.

Might not be the smartest bit of brand management to sign up replacing people who resigned over Trump's white nationalism problem.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:37 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well most of them were speaking (surprise, surprise) on the condition of anonymity. But that it happened is beyond question.

If they didn't exist, then why on earth did Liz Kendall say Labour should aim for a permanent budget surplus in her ill-fated leadership campaign??

You are quite right Balls never said anything as daft as that, and even I have more respect for him than to imagine he would.

That 2014 speech was genuinely hideous and ill-judged though, and should haunt him for the rest of his days. It was a - small - factor in Labour's loss, I have very little doubt.

Again, your memory is failing you. Kendall said no such thing, at least in every quote I can find on Google.

I often feel youvrepeatvthings that you think ought to be true.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:50 pm

you claimed that no Labour MP said the party over-spent - do you still stand by that?

Perhaps an apology to AK for accusing him of 'That just isn't true'....

On the Liz Kendall quote - there are plenty where it could be interpreted she is saying that - whether Anatoly's interpretation is right or not depends on how you read it - but it was clear to me she was decrying the Labour policies from pre-2010

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 7:15 pm

Caroline Lucas‏Verified account @CarolineLucas 9h
Genuinely struggling to grasp how Grayling thinks rail fare increase is justified - couldn't be more out of touch if he tried

Decade old bipartisan policy of prioritizing investment in rail rather than subsidizing fares, plus inflation rising.

Maybe reaching its political limit now, so not surprising she has a pop.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 7:20 pm

That Mail story about 'elf 'n' safety reasons being to blame for silencing Big Ben for 4 years?

Caroline Shenton‏ @dustshoveller 2h2 hours ago
More
Caroline Shenton Retweeted Tom Moseley
I've been in the belfry at midday and the noise is not just eardrum bashing, it vibrates you to your fillings. You have NO idea.

That's the former director of the Parliamentary Archives...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 7:30 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1642089 ... on-tour-as" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 7:59 pm

If they were that bothered they would organise some sort of rota among staff and provide a replacement "bong" system,or just get Dacre to shout expletives at the appropriate time(s)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:02 pm

"This is the ten o'c##t news"

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:02 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:you claimed that no Labour MP said the party over-spent - do you still stand by that?

Perhaps an apology to AK for accusing him of 'That just isn't true'....

On the Liz Kendall quote - there are plenty where it could be interpreted she is saying that - whether Anatoly's interpretation is right or not depends on how you read it - but it was clear to me she was decrying the Labour policies from pre-2010

"Plenty"

Post by **refitman** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:06 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well most of them were speaking (surprise, surprise) on the condition of anonymity. But that it happened is beyond question.

If they didn't exist, then why on earth did Liz Kendall say Labour should aim for a permanent budget surplus in her ill-fated leadership campaign??

You are quite right Balls never said anything as daft as that, and even I have more respect for him than to imagine he would.

That 2014 speech was genuinely hideous and ill-judged though, and should haunt him for the rest of his days. It was a - small - factor in Labour's loss, I have very little doubt.
Again, your memory is failing you. Kendall said no such thing, at least in every quote I can find on Google.

I often feel youvrepeatvthings that you think ought to be true.

Are you sure about that? Are you really, really sure?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:09 pm

https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/ ... sic-income" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://blog.shelter.org.uk/2016/04/what ... ng-crisis/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:17 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/ ... m-the-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Crossword blog: even clues fail to provide refuge from the news

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:22 pm

gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:25 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 95211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:37 pm

citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet

Yes it is

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:40 pm

Doing good Naz Shah

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 95211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

over-100-cross-party-politicians-demand-action-over-muslim-problem-article-in-sun-newspaper

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:40 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:you claimed that no Labour MP said the party over-spent - do you still stand by that?

Perhaps an apology to AK for accusing him of 'That just isn't true'....

On the Liz Kendall quote - there are plenty where it could be interpreted she is saying that - whether Anatoly's interpretation is right or not depends on how you read it - but it was clear to me she was decrying the Labour policies from pre-2010
"Plenty"

if you look a little harder than you did before and think about potential different interpretations - I know you find this hard with your inflexible mind but what about giving it a try

Oh, and I do not intend to be side-tracked onto a subject that was only mentioned in passing - this is all old news now and Kendall, thankfully, is no longer a relevance in the party - alongside her pal Leslie

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:41 pm

HindleA wrote:
citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet

Yes it is

Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:46 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
HindleA wrote:
citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet

Yes it is
Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!

A bit unfair Paul, you living in Huddersfield will be pretty much unaware that the sun exists - some others may have the good fortune to see it occasionally

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:56 pm

Or Merseyside.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 8:59 pm

I am sure it is lighter slightly longer here for the time of year,always with the I may be on a different planet caveat.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:19 pm

returning from holiday to the joy of 50 shades of Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 93216.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Government refusing to publish 50 'secret' studies on Brexit impact

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:20 pm

She had ideas about care,to be fair,an area where knowledge is generally atrocious,Keeley still there at Shadow Minister level plugging away,rarely mentioned but more effective/influential than credited for.No idea where she sits in the good/bad/indifferent traitor or not/to be cleansed scale.Not what I particularly look for.

StephenDolan · Post by **StephenDolan** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:23 pm

Congrats Tem,that's great news.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:27 pm

In other breaking news:
I did quite well at the old karaoke at the weekend (though not above Voltaire's Candide)

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:27 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
HindleA wrote:

Yes it is
Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!
A bit unfair Paul, you living in Huddersfield will be pretty much unaware that the sun exists - some others may have the good fortune to see it occasionally

That smog act did good HOSM and we do see it occasionally

Interesting to look back at that and see a Tory MP sponsoring legislation for the public good.

How times change....

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:35 pm

Keith Joseph sponsored the introduction of the precursor of Carers Allowance,admittedly a more restricted version originally.Osborne wanted to abolish it as a stand alone via UC.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:37 pm

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
HindleA wrote:
citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet

Yes it is
Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!

Brusk?

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:40 pm

PorFavor wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
HindleA wrote:

Yes it is
Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!
Brusk?

No it's Bpadyd

Not quite as catchy admittedly

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 9:48 pm

In tandem.rather than under UC clarification ie.make it means tested.

"Simplify"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 10:09 pm

Waiting for clanger singing karoake style pictures.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 10:16 pm

Think I am becoming addicted to strawberries and ice cream,maybe I should vary my diet more.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 10:17 pm

Warning: Express
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/841588 ... brexiteers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But Elizabeth said there was nothing wrong with wanting the country to be great again and laid into the Tories as she accused the Conservative party of not fulfilling the will of the people.

no inane peddling of platitudes whatsoever

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 10:35 pm

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/346675 ... ottesville" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Tue 15 Aug, 2017 10:45 pm

https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/15 ... 1502819005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Abbott signs bill restricting insurance coverage of abortion

(Texas)