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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 3:43 am 
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Cheers.



https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... gotiations


The Observer view on Theresa May and the shambolic Brexit negotiations
Observer editorial


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 3:44 am 
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Minority governments are easy to wound, but much harder to kill
Andrew Rawnsley


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... er-to-kill


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 3:47 am 
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The pursuit of pleasure is a modern-day addiction
Robert Lustig


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -addiction


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 7:54 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:
https://labourlist.org/2017/09/timetable-unveiled-for-new-scottish-labour-leader/


Timetable Unveiled For New Scottish Labour Leadership Contest


Unbelievably, some Centrist Dads moaning that people will be able to join as late as October and vote.

Hat tip - if you ever want to make a comeback within Labour, stop treating enthusiastic and committed new members as the enemy.

Maybe they will learn, eventually.


Are there? Who?

I find it hard to believe there are many old Blairites left. They, like me,have left.

The "new" right of the Labour party are the old soft left. Basically anyone who voted for Owen Smith. They now find the!selves in the position of the Blairites a decade ago.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 10:17 am 
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Good morfternoon.

By the way - I don't find myself in the position of the Blairites a decade ago.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 10:39 am 
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Again, the inference I am making stuff up is not terribly appreciated.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:11 am 
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http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/pages/ ... ction-2017


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:18 am 
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And in actual fact my impression is that most of the 4.5% tendency have remained in the party - the belief "their time will come again" is still (surprisingly?) strong.

Several of those who left, moreover, did so because they fell for the hype about a shiny new "centrist" party emerging to save them. Given this is looking less rather than more likely as time passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some trickling back to Labour in the coming months and years.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:43 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... udi-arabia


British arms sales to repressive regimes soar to £5bn since election


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:45 am 
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Quote:
There is no Brexit ‘punishment’, apart from the self-inflicted one

William Keegan


https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/sep/10/brexit-no-punishment-apart-from-inflicted-ourselves-barnier

William Keegan back on form (he went a bit off the boil for a couple of articles, in my opinion, merely repeating the same stuff).


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:45 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
And in actual fact my impression is that most of the 4.5% tendency have remained in the party - the belief "their time will come again" is still (surprisingly?) strong.

Several of those who left, moreover, did so because they fell for the hype about a shiny new "centrist" party emerging to save them. Given this is looking less rather than more likely as time passes, I wouldn't be surprised to see some trickling back to Labour in the coming months and years.

What can we do about it?


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:46 am 
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Good-morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:46 am 
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Sorry, about what?


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 11:58 am 
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The Brexit view from abroad:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 5b8ead4007


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 12:00 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Sorry, about what?

Centrist Dads complaining about new Labour party members
Blairites in Labour


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 12:24 pm 
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I don't mind as long as they behave - Labour being a broad church is one of its major strengths and always has been.

Its when people act in bad faith that the problems arise.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 12:25 pm 
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Good morning

Thoughts with those in South Florida today.....and all those on the islands who have been affected. I only hope that events of the last month will show the US that engaging with attempts to limit the effects of climate change should be accelerated, not slowed down

On the 'Blairites' in Labour etc - they are welcome to be members and put their case forward in my view - FPTP necessitates political parties to have have a broad swathe of opinions

There are a number of reasons why I find them difficult to engage with though

1. Their assumption that the Labour victory was only down to Blair and a move rightwards - the Labour Party were well ahead under Smith as well, and Blair actually ran in his early days on a programme that was quite different to where he is now

2. The Labour Government did many good things from 1997-2010 but they also presided over the excesses of the financial sector and paid little attention to the stagnation of wages and the increase in asset prices

3. A number of MPs from the right wing of the party were too happy to echo the Tory mantra post 2010 and blame excess public spending for the impact of the financial crash rather than where the true blame lied - we are seeing the same errors repeated now, in part because the Labour Party allowed these mistruths to become 'fact'.

4. Too many Labour MPs were sympathetic to the basis of austerity and believed in the flawed economic principles that backed up Thatcherism and Reaganism

5. Too many threw their toys out of the pram when Miliband and Corbyn were elected - because they couldn't accept that the party was changing

6. This wing of the party still has too much power over the party institutions which has allowed them to suspend and expel members with far too little evidence - I hesitate to use the words 'witch hunt' but these same people are only too happy to use it to describe possible deselection of candidates when at the same time they have presided over real expulsions of members

7. Trying to facilitate the undemocratic removal of a leader - first by instigating the most pathetic attempt at a coup and then by trying to remove him from the ballot when he was challenged

8. Using the extreme right-wing media outlets to attack the Labour Party and its policies - including that most despicable of Murdoch-owned rags!

So they are welcome to stay and welcome to argue their point of view - what I would say is that I, and many members of the party, think they are wrong and they should work on persuasion rather than the tactics we have seen in the last couple of years

If we take Brexit as an example, the party is moving in a direction that is more acceptable to those who supported Remain. This was not achieved by crying to the press or calling for people to resign. It was done by the use of discussion and the influence of people like Starmer and other members of the Shadow Cabinet putting forward reasoned arguments.

Jess Phillips may like the sound of her own voice and think herself very influential but how many people do you think she convinces with her self-centred rants in right-wing newspapers - or, in fact, her sharing the stage (after complimenting) an extreme right-wing would-be 18th century right-wing toff?


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 12:51 pm 
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Short article - but to the point.

Quote:
If only all we middle-aged Brits had Philip Hammond’s millions

Barbara Ellen (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/10/if-only-we-all-had-philip-hammonds-millions


Last edited by PorFavor on Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 12:51 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
I don't mind as long as they behave - Labour being a broad church is one of its major strengths and always has been.

Its when people act in bad faith that the problems arise.

acting in bad faith, liars
they're not trustworthy
everyone has the capacity for integrity unless they're sick in the head
when their word is thrown away, they've lost their treasure


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:32 pm 
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Edited my above post to add the word "article".


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:35 pm 
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Anyway, we had Blair saying this morning that we could "stop Brexit" if we got tough on immigration - and his faithful parrot Adonis (who was seemingly under the impression no party leader had ever gone on to become PM after losing an election, until corrected by lots of people on Twitter) echoing him.

Some might ask "if we have to do that, what's the point?"

(worth pointing out, too, that when the likes of Corbyn McDonnell or even Starmer say free movement will end with Brexit they don't necessarily mean the same thing)


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:38 pm 
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Quote:
"...people of low estate have a trick of reasoning as indifferently as they live, and doubtless would appreciate our Poor Law more philosophically on an income of ten thousand a year."

- Charles Dickens
Our Mutual Friend


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:49 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Anyway, we had Blair saying this morning that we could "stop Brexit" if we got tough on immigration - and his faithful parrot Adonis (who was seemingly under the impression no party leader had ever gone on to become PM after losing an election, until corrected by lots of people on Twitter) echoing him.

Some might ask "if we have to do that, what's the point?"

(worth pointing out, too, that when the likes of Corbyn McDonnell or even Starmer say free movement will end with Brexit they don't necessarily mean the same thing)


I read that - seems to be living in a fantasy land as it seems to be predicated on the old leaver argument that they need us more than we need them so they will change all their rules just to suit us - only difference he is talking about keeping us in and they are talking about the future trade deal

Again an example of his complete and utter inability to take any responsibility. One thing you can say that Blair was in his time as PM it was promoting immigration and reducing immigration controls (removing exit checks, or no transition period for new accession countries for example) - you can argue whether he was right to wrong to do that but for him to now do a volte face is a bit rich

That is why I have come to despise Blair - not so much for what he did in office (apart from Iraq) but his total hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness he has shown since he left office. Does he not know how much he is held in contempt?


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:54 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
"...people of low estate have a trick of reasoning as indifferently as they live, and doubtless would appreciate our Poor Law more philosophically on an income of ten thousand a year."



Speaking of Charles Dickens, this may interest you -

Quote:
How guest Hans Christian Andersen destroyed his friendship with Dickens

The Danish writer’s behaviour on an extended visit killed the authors’ friendship, letters show
(Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/sep/10/charles-dickens-hans-christian-andersen-letters-correspondence-auction


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 1:54 pm 
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There's a profound revulsion in the UK of giving everyone an ID card like other EU nations do to accurately tally who's in and out of the country(-ies). I respect that reluctance. Hell if I know what to do.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 2:03 pm 
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@PorFavor
Published today! Good find.
Some authors' lives are more interesting to me than others.
I'd love to come across the letters Cassandra Austen was said to have burned when Jane was gone.
I'd promise not to tell a soul what they contained if I thought I could keep my word but I can't so never mind.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 2:23 pm 
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Quote:
A Florida sheriff has advised people not to shoot at the hurricane as this could backfire. (Guardian)


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 2:42 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
@PorFavor
Published today! Good find.
Some authors' lives are more interesting to me than others.
I'd love to come across the letters Cassandra Austen was said to have burned when Jane was gone.
I'd promise not to tell a soul what they contained if I thought I could keep my word but I can't so never mind.

Saw the new memorial, in Winchester 2 weeks ago,
opposite the house, Jane Austen spent her last days.
Heard a lady bemoaning to a friend (on being asked about his well being) that her son was at Harrow, but hating it, despite the £30k fees & it made her question the point of it all.
Seemed a bit inappropriate, seeing the wording of the memorial.


Attachments:
tmp-cam--1093465852.jpg
tmp-cam--1093465852.jpg [ 214.84 KiB | Viewed 244 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 3:56 pm 
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Quote:
“‘You are in a melancholy humour and fancy that anyone unlike yourself must be happy. But remember that the pain of parting from friends will be felt by everybody at times, whatever be their education or state. Know your own happiness. You want nothing but patience; or give it a more fascinating name: call it hope.'”

- Jane Austen
from, Sense & Sensibility

(Mrs. Dashwood speaking to Edward Ferrars)
take every opportunity giving 'patience' a more fascinating name


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 4:13 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
A Florida sheriff has advised people not to shoot at the hurricane as this could backfire. (Guardian)

my having lived in different places taught me firearm usage during extreme events isn't universally acknowledged standard procedure


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 4:22 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
A Florida sheriff has advised people not to shoot at the hurricane as this could backfire. (Guardian)

my having lived in different places taught me firearm usage during extreme events isn't universally acknowledged standard procedure


Well, I did wonder. Whatever prompted this rather bizarre exhortation?


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 4:34 pm 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... er-to-kill

Quote:
Minority governments are easy to wound, but much harder to kill
Andrew Rawnsley

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 4:44 pm 
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'kill it! kill it! kill it!'


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 4:52 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/09/minority-governments-easy-to-wound-harder-to-kill

Quote:
Minority governments are easy to wound, but much harder to kill
Andrew Rawnsley
Rawnsley -
Quote:
Every legislative idea will be subject to a pitiless assessment by the government’s business managers of the prospects of squeaking it through parliament.

The quality of the proposal will matter a whole lot less than the whips’ cold-eyed calculus of whether it might be at risk of a defeat. Good ideas will fall by the wayside along with the rotten ones. Many decisions will simply go unmade. Three months into the life of this government and civil servants are reporting that much of Whitehall is already paralysed by the combination of Brexit and ministers who daren’t chance votes in parliament.
He didn't mention the Tory plan taking legislative oversight out of the House of Commons with government’s European Union Withdrawal Bill


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 5:05 pm 
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Have a good night, everyone
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 5:20 pm 
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http://institute.global/news/eu-migrati ... cy-choices


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 5:22 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... -kingmaker


Norway goes to the polls with the future of its oil and gas industry in play

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ed-to-know


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 5:38 pm 
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https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/el ... /id456636/

The main features of the Norwegian electoral system


Election Day is fixed by the King to a Monday in September, usually in one of the first two weeks of the month.



(By the time I work it out,it will time for the next one)


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 5:53 pm 
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https://leftfootforward.org/2017/09/fra ... rd-brexit/


Frances O’Grady: Unions will have to change – but they will always be essential


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 5:55 pm 
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https://www.tuc.org.uk/tuc-congress-2017


https://www.tuc.org.uk/watch-tuc-congress-live


Live coverage/agenda


Last edited by HindleA on Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:06 pm 
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Finally found out where the chicken lasagne and boiled potatoes people have been tweeting about came from:

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... tion-night

Quote:
Crosby told the senior advisers, who had gathered to discuss the party’s strategy over a meal of chicken lasagne and potatoes: “By the way, mate, it’s not about being the change candidate, it’s about doing what people want.”


Of far more interest in the article is the fact that both Labour and the Tories were not expecting a hung parliament, which kind of suggests that the key voters that shaped the outcome had a voter profile that neither party had really focussed on or talked to. It's odd that May didn't consider how calling a snap election would torpedo what was arguably her only strength, which was the perception of being a safe pair of hands. Which takes us back to the question of why did she risk an election she didn't need to call. Sure, the numbers looked good, but still. There has been some fascinating raking over the coals of the disastrous Tory election campaign lately, but none of it really takes me any closer to understanding what May was hoping to achieve, either by triggering article 50 in March - something she was quite adamant on for no obvious reason - or by holding an election directly after it was triggered.

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:14 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... s-complain


Schools abandon exclusion of sixth-formers


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:14 pm 
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Chicken lasagne and potatoes?

That's just wrong...

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:17 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Chicken lasagne and potatoes?

That's just wrong...


The general reaction was very much along the lines of "Can Theresa May not get anything right?!"

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:19 pm 
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TUC Congress backs staying in the single market for at least as long as Brexit transition - and potentially permanently


“The UK should seek a transitional period after leaving the EU in March 2019. This is a pragmatic solution, and recognises that the government’s criminal lack of preparation means that a good Brexit deal cannot be achieved by March 2019.

“The simplest option to minimise disruption across all sectors of the economy, is for the current arrangements to continue with the UK remaining a member of the single market and customs union during the transition period.

“This will protect tariff-free, barrier-free frictionless trade with the EU as well as protecting workers’ existing rights and making sure the UK benefits from any further EU rights introduced during this period.”


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:22 pm 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41200958


Disabled child travel cuts 'force parents to work less'


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:26 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Chicken lasagne and potatoes?

That's just wrong...


Not just potatoes, but plain boiled potatoes apparently :mrgreen:

And that's 6000 posts up for meeeeee :dance:


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:33 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Chicken lasagne and potatoes?

That's just wrong...


I know someone who likes (beef) lasagne with plain boiled potatoes and very boiled cabbage.

That's wrong, too.


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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:35 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/sep/10/schools-exclusion-sixth-formers-parents-complain


Schools abandon exclusion of sixth-formers


Quote:
“The school is ‘guiding’ children to continue with subjects where they will preferably get an A grade,” said the parent of one girl who was told she couldn’t continue A-level chemistry.


This country has gone insane. I mean, a C is a pass, surely? Even a D can count for a university course (I should know!). A friend struggled to scrape passes in sciences when she could have got better grades at other subjects because she needed them to study medicine. She's now a GP. A blooming good one too. How did schools get so far away from what they are supposed to be for? Who gives a crap if someone gets a C at A level if they go on to get a 1st at uni? Stupid trophy-hunting heads who only give a toss about their own vanity, that's who.

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PostPosted: Sun 10 Sep, 2017 6:46 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Chicken lasagne and potatoes?

That's just wrong...


Not just potatoes, but plain boiled potatoes apparently :mrgreen:

And that's 6000 posts up for meeeeee :dance:

You could match that with a 600th Thank if you really wanted to :twisted:


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