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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:00 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... servatives
Quote:
Starmer argued that Labour would amend and remove the worst aspects of the bill but called the flaws “so fundamental” that it was hard to see it ever made “fit for purpose”.


Amendments are for tweaking, really. They could make things worse rather than better as we saw with the Health and Social Care Act.

I hope the government listen to the lawyers because ambiguity and vague language in a bill such as this could prove a real nightmare. At least there are some on the Conservative side that see the need for Parliament to have the final say on leaving.

Quote:
Grieve also planned to lay down other amendments including calling for a further bill to be required after MPs know what the Brexit deal looks like before this legislation can actually be enacted. He also criticised the removal of safeguards for people or businesses adversely affected by the application of EU law.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:38 am 
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Good-morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:42 am 
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Morning

Secondary schools struggling to get enough teachers, says watchdog


https://www.nao.org.uk/report/supportin ... workforce/


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:46 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/12/theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-bill-brexit-stance-conservatives
Quote:
Starmer argued that Labour would amend and remove the worst aspects of the bill but called the flaws “so fundamental” that it was hard to see it ever made “fit for purpose”.


Amendments are for tweaking, really. They could make things worse rather than better as we saw with the Health and Social Care Act.

I hope the government listen to the lawyers because ambiguity and vague language in a bill such as this could prove a real nightmare. At least there are some on the Conservative side that see the need for Parliament to have the final say on leaving.

Quote:
Grieve also planned to lay down other amendments including calling for a further bill to be required after MPs know what the Brexit deal looks like before this legislation can actually be enacted. He also criticised the removal of safeguards for people or businesses adversely affected by the application of EU law.

Morning!

There does seem to be something interesting in what Grieve is saying. He's proposing some kind of Joint Committee to effectively triage the legislation that needs reviewing and decide whether it should be referred to the House or whether, in fact, it is safe to let Whitehall just get on with it.

Given where we are, this may be the best possible outcome and something I believe May will struggle to avert. Even the Labour "rebels" would surely fall in line for such a thing.

[Apart from Kate Hoey probably]


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:47 am 
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Morning all.

It appears that Suella Fernandes is so interested in education that she's decided not to stand again for the Education Select committee.

https://twitter.com/FCDWhittaker/status ... 9281981441

Either that or other MPs decided her contributions were so dire and partisan that they didn't re-elect her.

Lasted precisely 2 years. Lightweight.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:57 am 
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CPI expected to be 2.8%,for reference.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 7:59 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... t-protests


Emmanuel Macron's presidency faces first major street protests


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:03 am 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41225056


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:34 am 
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HindleA wrote:
CPI expected to be 2.8%,for reference.


I'll raise your 2.8% to 2.9% (just announced).


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:34 am 
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See above

https://www.ons.gov.uk/releases/ukconsu ... cesaug2017


Last edited by HindleA on Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:34 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:37 am 
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House prices 5.1%



https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/inflatio ... x/july2017


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:38 am 
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Quote:
Labour leader to tell TUC conference his vision of ‘jobs-first Brexit’ is in stark contrast to Tories’ ‘Shangri-La for bankers’

Jeremy Corbyn will call for the UK to retain “full access” to the European single market on Tuesday as he seeks to clarify Labour’s position on Brexit. It follows a BBC radio interview on Monday when Corbyn appeared to have softened the party’s position on staying in the single market. He said Labour was flexible as long as the UK was still able to trade within the single market after Brexit.

“We want a relationship which allows us to trade within the single market,” he said. “Whether that’s formal membership – which is only possible, I believe, if you are actually a member of the EU – or whether it’s an agreed trading relationship, is open for discussion. The outcome is more important than the nomenclature on the way.”

Frances O’Grady, the TUC general secretary, opened the group’s congress on Monday by calling for continued membership of the EU single market, saying it was the best way to protect British workers after Brexit. The TUC, which represents about 50 trade union organisations, officially stated that it was in favour of remaining in the single market after a meeting on Thursday.

- Jeremy Corbyn calls for UK to retain 'full access' to EU single market

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... gle-market

It may be significant this message is coming from both Corbyn and the TUC general secretary today. What good it does, I don't know. It could well be woolly lingo from the Labour leader but I think it's something more. It's important to remember things can change fast. Theresa May's GE three months ago and it's result was extraordinary, for example.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:46 am 
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Clothing a big factor,apparently.(Can't say I've noticed)


Last edited by HindleA on Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:46 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Clothing a big factor,apparently.

Please expand a bit


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:48 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/11/emmanuel-macrons-presidency-faces-first-major-street-protests

Emmanuel Macron's presidency faces first major street protests

It's about time
Macron was beginning to worry


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:50 am 
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C l o t h I n g a b I g f a c t o r I n I n f l a t I o n r a t e, a p p a r e n t l y.


Last edited by HindleA on Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:50 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:
CPI expected to be 2.8%,for reference.


I'll raise your 2.8% to 2.9% (just announced).

I want some peace and plenty, please


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:52 am 
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HindleA wrote:
C l o t h I n g a b I g f a c t o r I n I n f l a t I o n r a t e.

Look at who's a wise-guy


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:53 am 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
Labour leader to tell TUC conference his vision of ‘jobs-first Brexit’ is in stark contrast to Tories’ ‘Shangri-La for bankers’

Jeremy Corbyn will call for the UK to retain “full access” to the European single market on Tuesday as he seeks to clarify Labour’s position on Brexit. It follows a BBC radio interview on Monday when Corbyn appeared to have softened the party’s position on staying in the single market. He said Labour was flexible as long as the UK was still able to trade within the single market after Brexit.

“We want a relationship which allows us to trade within the single market,” he said. “Whether that’s formal membership – which is only possible, I believe, if you are actually a member of the EU – or whether it’s an agreed trading relationship, is open for discussion. The outcome is more important than the nomenclature on the way.”

Frances O’Grady, the TUC general secretary, opened the group’s congress on Monday by calling for continued membership of the EU single market, saying it was the best way to protect British workers after Brexit. The TUC, which represents about 50 trade union organisations, officially stated that it was in favour of remaining in the single market after a meeting on Thursday.

- Jeremy Corbyn calls for UK to retain 'full access' to EU single market

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... gle-market

It may be significant this message is coming from both Corbyn and the TUC general secretary today. What good it does, I don't know. It could well be woolly lingo from the Labour leader but I think it's something more. It's important to remember things can change fast. Theresa May's GE three months ago and it's result was extraordinary, for example.

The focus on the outcome rather than the nomenclature is quite right IMHO. And he's said that before.

In the end, the UK no longer has much control of whether we are a "member" of the Single Market or not. As we've seen here, it can become a totemic thing. Better to focus pragmatically on the good things the Single Market brings, and bad ones, and see what we can get of the good. If the EU decide we are still a member, so be it.

Let's leave flags, symbols, names to the Brexiteers and focus on what's actually important to ordinary folk.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:54 am 
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Just following a polite request.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 8:59 am 
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Clothing/footwear up 4.6% % on an annual basis.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:00 am 
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@PaulfromYorkshire
Yes. I'm latching onto anything at all hopeful at this point. My judgement on this matter isn't reliable.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:03 am 
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citizenJA wrote:
@PaulfromYorkshire
Yes. I'm latching onto anything at all hopeful at this point. My judgement on this matter isn't reliable.

I'd say nobody's judgement is reliable on this matter JA. We're in uncharted waters. That's why I think it's so important to respect a wide range of views.

Though of course some feel they know EXACTLY what is best :roll:


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:09 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... dy-reveals

Teachers' pay in England down by 12% in 10 years, influential study reveals


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:12 am 
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136 amendments(so far)


http://services.parliament.uk/bills/201 ... rawal.html

http://services.parliament.uk/bills/201 ... ments.html


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:22 am 
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My judgement is reliably unreliable.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:23 am 
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Or unreliably reliable,I can never work out which.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:33 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... court-case


Monkey selfie: warring parties reach settlement over court case


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:50 am 
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Flint abstaining in the end made her look even more ridiculous. These people just aren't very good at actual POLITICS, are they?


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:53 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Just following a polite request.

:rock:


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:58 am 
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And none of the seven Labour names who actually voted with the government were remotely surprising. All getting a bit long in the tooth as well.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 9:59 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Flint abstaining in the end made her look even more ridiculous. These people just aren't very good at actual POLITICS, are they?

I tried putting myself in her shoes, you know? Tried to imagine the conversations, communications she's had with constituents, Labour peoples, media...she ought to wear more comfortable shoes, a nice pair of hiking/walking sandals, the good kind, not poor quality.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:13 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/12/theresa-may-eu-withdrawal-bill-brexit-stance-conservatives
Quote:
Starmer argued that Labour would amend and remove the worst aspects of the bill but called the flaws “so fundamental” that it was hard to see it ever made “fit for purpose”.


Amendments are for tweaking, really. They could make things worse rather than better as we saw with the Health and Social Care Act.

I hope the government listen to the lawyers because ambiguity and vague language in a bill such as this could prove a real nightmare. At least there are some on the Conservative side that see the need for Parliament to have the final say on leaving.

Quote:
Grieve also planned to lay down other amendments including calling for a further bill to be required after MPs know what the Brexit deal looks like before this legislation can actually be enacted. He also criticised the removal of safeguards for people or businesses adversely affected by the application of EU law.

Morning!

There does seem to be something interesting in what Grieve is saying. He's proposing some kind of Joint Committee to effectively triage the legislation that needs reviewing and decide whether it should be referred to the House or whether, in fact, it is safe to let Whitehall just get on with it.

Given where we are, this may be the best possible outcome and something I believe May will struggle to avert. Even the Labour "rebels" would surely fall in line for such a thing.

[Apart from Kate Hoey probably]


Just got back. Yes, what Grieve has had to say is encouraging, if he can get enough Tories behind him, some significant amendments could be made that would align with what the opposition would want, which is much more scrutiny and a say on the final deal. I really hope it doesn't go through without those changes. Even with those changes, though, the scope for abuse is going to be pretty high.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:21 am 
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Quote:
ONS Statistical bulletin:Index of private housing rental prices (IPHRP) in Great Britain: August 2017
Release date:
12 September 2017

Private rental prices see steady growth in Great Britain

Between January 2011 and August 2017, private rental prices in Great Britain increased by 15.1%, strongly driven by the historical growth in private rental prices within London.
When London is excluded, private rental prices increased by 11.1% over the same period.
(cJA bold)

I don't know, even with London excluded that's one hell of a rent increase within six years.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:23 am 
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Quote:
May's former policy chief [Nick Timothy] suggests bartering security cooperation for good Brexit deal (Politics Live, Guardian)


Such a grubby idea (although not a new one) that Theresa May might just go for it. Especially since it seems to pre-suppose that our security is better than "their" security. "Brexiters" should love it.





Edited - brackets


Last edited by PorFavor on Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:24 am 
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http://www.katebelgrave.com/2017/09/its ... n-systems/


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:26 am 
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"Welfare reforms" were to lead to rent reductions.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:36 am 
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HindleA wrote:
"Welfare reforms" were to lead to rent reductions.


How's that going then?


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:42 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Just got back. Yes, what Grieve has had to say is encouraging, if he can get enough Tories behind him, some significant amendments could be made that would align with what the opposition would want, which is much more scrutiny and a say on the final deal. I really hope it doesn't go through without those changes. Even with those changes, though, the scope for abuse is going to be pretty high.

Absolutely!


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 10:56 am 
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HindleA wrote:
http://www.katebelgrave.com/2017/09/its-disgusting-that-people-most-in-need-are-excluded-from-help-by-useless-benefits-application-systems/
Quote:
"You can’t continue to have a benefits system where a successful application is about an applicant’s ability to prevail, rather than an applicant’s needs."


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:07 am 
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Waffle.


Last edited by HindleA on Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:08 am 
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Dominic Grieve unfortunately hasn't taken long to revert back to Tory type, arguing that the Tories are entitled to seek majorities on key committees, citing 1974 as precedent, but Andrew Sparrow over at the G live blog has caught him out on that one:

Quote:
The House of Commons library has this morning published a briefing (pdf) on the new selection committee ahead of tonight’s vote. It explains what happened in the 1970s in some detail, and it suggests that Grieve’s account of what happened in the past is rather partial.


Or just plain wrong. Labour started as a majority in Oct 1974, this Tory government aren't:

Quote:
There have been three occasions in relatively recent history when the government had no majority.

After the February 1974 election, the government did not have a majority. Even number of government and opposition members were appointed to committees.

In October 1974, the Labour government secured a narrow majority at the election. Having lost its majority by April 1976, in May 1976 it accepted that it was no longer entitled to a majority on committees.

In January 1995, following the suspension of a number of members, the Conservative party technically lost its majority but argued that as it had not lost seats at by-elections or as a result of defections, it should continue to have a majority on committees.

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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:23 am 
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From the man who brought you "without a bullet being fired" (still my low point of 2016, in spite of fierce competition).

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status ... 1867790336

Don't know the context, don't care. It stands alone as a testament to his arrogance, hypocrisy and general air of invulnerability - the latter almost justified given a totally supine, complicit media obsessed with false equivalency.


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:26 am 
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Oh, and fuck this "hot take". Hard.

https://twitter.com/CorbynSuperFan/stat ... 2126861317


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:34 am 
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Quote:
House of Commons Library
Committee of Selection
Published Monday, September 11, 2017

Motions to appoint the Selection Committee are scheduled to be debated on 12 September 2017.
This House of Commons Library Briefing Paper provides some background information on the Committee of Selection,
which has been appointed in previous Parliaments, and on the membership of legislation committees when the Government did not have a majority

http://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ ... y/CBP-8085


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:36 am 
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Oops...sorry, Willow904, didn't see your post before posting mine
There's a link to a paper on the Parliamentary website I've posted


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:39 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017 ... CMP=twt_gu


Where is the world's most walkable city?


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:40 am 
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NonOxCol wrote:


Not too much appreciation for this line in the comments ;)


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PostPosted: Tue 12 Sep, 2017 11:41 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
Dominic Grieve unfortunately hasn't taken long to revert back to Tory type, arguing that the Tories are entitled to seek majorities on key committees, citing 1974 as precedent, but Andrew Sparrow over at the G live blog has caught him out on that one:

Quote:
The House of Commons library has this morning published a briefing (pdf) on the new selection committee ahead of tonight’s vote. It explains what happened in the 1970s in some detail, and it suggests that Grieve’s account of what happened in the past is rather partial.


Or just plain wrong. Labour started as a majority in Oct 1974, this Tory government aren't:

Quote:
There have been three occasions in relatively recent history when the government had no majority.

After the February 1974 election, the government did not have a majority. Even number of government and opposition members were appointed to committees.

In October 1974, the Labour government secured a narrow majority at the election. Having lost its majority by April 1976, in May 1976 it accepted that it was no longer entitled to a majority on committees.

In January 1995, following the suspension of a number of members, the Conservative party technically lost its majority but argued that as it had not lost seats at by-elections or as a result of defections, it should continue to have a majority on committees.

Thank you this is really useful info.

They all sound fair to me. Even the last one. Despite their suspensions, it was fairly clear what views the suspended members were representing.

Even numbers then?


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