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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 11:32 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Where's everyone gone? All rushed off to the LibDem Conference?


I already made that joke :)


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 11:34 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Where's everyone gone? All rushed off to the LibDem Conference?


I already made that joke :)


Whoops - missed it! Still, so good it bears repeating . . .


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 11:44 am 
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Quote:
Johnson tweeted that he fully backed the prime minister and her speech, to be delivered in Florence on Friday, but many accused him of launching a leadership bid and trying to undermine what is expected to be a more conciliatory approach from May. (Guardian - my emphasis)


So he's seen this speech (no doubt written in a fine Italian hand) then, has he?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/17/amber-rudd-boris-johnson-backseat-driving-brexit


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 11:57 am 
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gilsey wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/16/universal-credit-rent-arrears-soar
"Revealed: universal credit sends rent arrears soaring"

Quote:
Ministers are coming under intense pressure to put the brakes on the government’s flagship welfare reform programme, following damning new evidence that it is leaving thousands of low-paid workers unable to pay their rent and at risk of homelessness.

I think I got this from twitter, but if it was here, apologies.
http://data.parliament.uk/writteneviden ... 48055.html
Written evidence from Professor John Seddon
Quote:
There were and are two hurdles to success via the current design. Of these, the first is difficult, the second is insurmountable.

The first: UC relies on a large-scale computer system. 90% of large-scale computer systems fail, 30% fail completely, 60% run wildly over budget, don’t work as anticipated, requiring work-arounds or limiting functionality (Gauld and Goldfinch 2006). If UC ever gets over this hurdle – successive reports have shown significant problems with the IT – it will not get over the second.

The second: computer systems cannot deal with high-variety demand. This is because computer systems rely on rules. The consequence is always more demand (what I call ‘failure demand’) into call centres or face-to-face services. UC claimants epitomise high variety. Private-sector organisations whose leaders have been persuaded that digital will be cheaper quickly rein back from the strategy when they see the way costs rise. They, unlike the public sector, have the rudder of profit.


http://www.universalcredit.co.uk/catego ... d-to-fail/

Back in 2011, Professor John Seddon finished article with
Quote:
But the train has left the station. In the words of the chairman of the Commons public accounts committee the plan to deliver this brilliant idea is a train crash waiting to happen. It is guaranteed.


Seeing as so many warnings have been made about the shortcomings (although admittedly from experts),
It's either massive incompetence or it's designed to cause hardship, or both.
( think A.Hindle, posted then deleted about deliberate intentions, last night)


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 12:09 pm 
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PorFavor wrote:
Quote:
Johnson tweeted that he fully backed the prime minister and her speech, to be delivered in Florence on Friday, but many accused him of launching a leadership bid and trying to undermine what is expected to be a more conciliatory approach from May. (Guardian - my emphasis)


So he's seen this speech (no doubt written in a fine Italian hand) then, has he?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/17/amber-rudd-boris-johnson-backseat-driving-brexit

He actually twittered:
Quote:
Looking forward to PM's Florence speech. All behind Theresa for a glorious Brexit:
en-gb.facebook.com/borisjohnson/p…

the second bit being a link to a facebook copy of his article.
(presuming that it's not a fake Twitter account, and that the link was in original tweet, not sure how these things work)


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 12:15 pm 
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I thought Sarah Smith made a refreshing change (Sunday Politics, BBC).


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 12:21 pm 
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Yes, she was OK.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Quote:
“It is never helpful to have speculation about an ongoing operation and I would include the president of the United States in that comment,” said Amber Rudd, who said the tweet was not based on intelligence.

“It is pure speculation,” she [Amber Rudd] told BBC1’s The Andrew Marr Show on Sunday. (Guardian, my emphasis)


Amber Rudd (pointedly?) prepared to say what Theresa May isn't.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/17/amber-rudd-trump-london-terror-tweet-pure-speculation


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 12:45 pm 
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Ha! It's just sunk in -

Donald Trump's "Tweet" was not based on intelligence. Well, she got that right.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 3:41 pm 
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Quote:
Public sector employment is at 70-year low, says GMB report

GMB union criticises government policy as report says the public sector jobs share is now 16.9%, the lowest since 1947 (Guardian)


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/sep/17/public-sector-employment-70-year-low-gmb-union-report


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 5:06 pm 
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https://www.statisticsauthority.gov.uk/ ... to-the-eu/


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... exit-claim


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 5:10 pm 
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No I am NOT at the Lib Dem conference :evil:


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 5:12 pm 
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Faisal Islam's account on Twitter is often worth a gander, he seems to have fairly conclusive evidence that Boris has been telling porkies. Again.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 5:15 pm 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0962w44


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 6:05 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
No I am NOT at the Lib Dem conference :evil:



When I learned it was on, I was going to go - but I was worried I wouldn't get a seat, so I scrubbed round the idea.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Hello to everyone.

Question for Paul, about his part of the world:

Barry Sheerman. He has (or at least used to have) a big bee in his bonnet about HS2. Even as a supporter of it, I see it's a lot of money. He's got (even now, before improvement works which would likely follow) three Sunday trains an hour from Huddersfield to Leeds, fastest journey 19 minutes. And there's another station in his constituency on the line, served by slow trains (Deighton?).

Seems a bit odd. Lots of MPs would see HS2 as a boon to their consituency. What's he worried about?


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Johnson has just accused the head of UK Statistics of "wilful misrepresentation".


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 6:48 pm 
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Unbelievable. He doesn't actually understand that we never lost "control" of the rebate.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ8J770W0AAY6qj.jpg


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:04 pm 
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Evening all

Isn't Huddersfield in the same sort of place that Wolverhampton is with respect to HS" - not on the line and so users of the line will have to move to it - in Huddersfield's case probably Leeds as it is closer, or perhaps Manchester

This is not particularly different to now as you have to pass through one of the big cities, but the concern would be that jobs will relocate to places that are more directly linked to the line I suppose

There is no real direct benefit to Huddersfield and so it is perhaps not surprising the MP is not overly enthusiastic - also there is the argument that fast commuter times to London will only, in the end benefit london and that the rest of the country will increasingly be in service of that.

What Huddersfield needs is investment in the line between Manchester and Leeds - I did the Manchester-Huddersfield journey last week and it was terrible - not even rush hour and standing room only. The Government seems to be now going back on plans for investment for this line so it should not be surprising it has not gone down that well


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:05 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Hello to everyone.

Question for Paul, about his part of the world:

Barry Sheerman. He has (or at least used to have) a big bee in his bonnet about HS2. Even as a supporter of it, I see it's a lot of money. He's got (even now, before improvement works which would likely follow) three Sunday trains an hour from Huddersfield to Leeds, fastest journey 19 minutes. And there's another station in his constituency on the line, served by slow trains (Deighton?).

Seems a bit odd. Lots of MPs would see HS2 as a boon to their consituency. What's he worried about?

Hi Tubby

I haven't followed Sheerman on this. The Transpennine service between Manchester and Leeds though Huddersfield is in desperate need of investment. This was promised but I think is now on ice.

It's my usual story. Where I live it doesn't strike me that the link from Leeds to London is the biggest problem. I do travel to London reasonably often. The worst part of the journey is the bus from my house to the station. I then have to either get a decrepit, noisy, smelly Northern Sprinter into Wakefield, or stand up on the terribly overcrowded Transpennine into Leeds. The East Coast train is then a pleasure really.

Sheerman probably thinks that this investment will benefit London a lot and Huddersfield marginally. He's probably right. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do HS2, but there should be immediate investment into local train and bus too.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:10 pm 
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As I have said before ;-) for a tiny fraction of the cost of HS2 the government could upgrade ticketing on buses to Oyster style, allow through ticketing and save millions of folk countless hours waiting at bus stops while the driver takes fares.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:11 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Hello to everyone.

Question for Paul, about his part of the world:

Barry Sheerman. He has (or at least used to have) a big bee in his bonnet about HS2. Even as a supporter of it, I see it's a lot of money. He's got (even now, before improvement works which would likely follow) three Sunday trains an hour from Huddersfield to Leeds, fastest journey 19 minutes. And there's another station in his constituency on the line, served by slow trains (Deighton?).

Seems a bit odd. Lots of MPs would see HS2 as a boon to their consituency. What's he worried about?

Hi Tubby

I haven't followed Sheerman on this. The Transpennine service between Manchester and Leeds though Huddersfield is in desperate need of investment. This was promised but I think is now on ice.

It's my usual story. Where I live it doesn't strike me that the link from Leeds to London is the biggest problem. I do travel to London reasonably often. The worst part of the journey is the bus from my house to the station. I then have to either get a decrepit, noisy, smelly Northern Sprinter into Wakefield, or stand up on the terribly overcrowded Transpennine into Leeds. The East Coast train is then a pleasure really.

Sherman probably thinks that this investment will benefit London a lot and Huddersfield marginally. He's probably right. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do HS2, but there should be immediate investment into local train and bus too.



I traveled from Wakefield to Huddersfield a couple of weeks ago - I didn't think trains like that existed anymore! Absolutely awful experience

I also agree with the point about the bus services. When I lived in Almondbury - a not insignificantly sized village we had a once an hour direct bus service into town, or a more frequent one that seemed to go around the whole of West Yorks before bothering to get somewhere useful!

It is not 18 minutes from Huddersfield to Leeds for most people - it is more like 60-90 minutes when you take into account the bus times and the faffing about waiting - quicker, cheaper and more convenient to drive - so a lot of people do


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:14 pm 
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edit to Howsilly

That's a very good suggestion. Coventry has been worried like that too.

I tend to think that big projects make smaller ones around it more viable, but I can see why he might be sceptical.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Thanks, Paul. I assume some of that will be done in the new franchise. Or perhaps Rail North are looking at it.

5m annual passengers from Huddersfield, shouldn't be a backwater.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
edit to Howsilly

That's a very good suggestion. Coventry has been worried like that too.

I tend to think that big projects make smaller ones around it more viable, but I can see why he might be sceptical.


I don't have any problems with HS2 per se but you can understand the concerns of those places such as Wolves, Coventry and Huddersfield that could easily get left out

I have said before a more positive view on public transport, well-focused investment and integration of the different transport systems - simpler ticketing and using technology.

Oyster cards, mobile payments etc are all available now in London but scarce elsewhere - you can understand why someone from the provinces gets frustrated


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:22 pm 
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Oh, and having lived in Huddersfield the idea of being a satellite of, and dependent on, Leeds is not a popular view....even if some people from there do support LUFC!


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:23 pm 
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On buses, London had a big headstart with Oyster (being allowed to regulate them properly, having a mayor who'd take it forward, and having lots of bus users so that the investment wasn't too daunting). But as you probably know, it's shifting over to contactless bank cards and running down Oyster which saves it a lot of money.

I'd like to know why nationwide buses couldn't be run off the contactless system, missing out the Oyster stage altogether.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:26 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
edit to Howsilly

That's a very good suggestion. Coventry has been worried like that too.

I tend to think that big projects make smaller ones around it more viable, but I can see why he might be sceptical.


I don't have any problems with HS2 per se but you can understand the concerns of those places such as Wolves, Coventry and Huddersfield that could easily get left out

I have said before a more positive view on public transport, well-focused investment and integration of the different transport systems - simpler ticketing and using technology.

Oyster cards, mobile payments etc are all available now in London but scarce elsewhere - you can understand why someone from the provinces gets frustrated


Absolutely, yes.

Did you spot the new convert to borrowing for investment over the weekend? Step forward, Mr Boris Johnson.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:28 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
On buses, London had a big headstart with Oyster (being allowed to regulate them properly, having a mayor who'd take it forward, and having lots of bus users so that the investment wasn't too daunting). But as you probably know, it's shifting over to contactless bank cards and running down Oyster which saves it a lot of money.

I'd like to know why nationwide buses couldn't be run off the contactless system, missing out the Oyster stage altogether.



yes, I saw that last time I was there, the use of contactless cards (and my mate used his apple watch but did look a bit of a knob when waving his arm frantically over the sensor)

In Wolverhampton the buses don't give change and so you have to make sure you have the right fare - bloody useless


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:30 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
edit to Howsilly

That's a very good suggestion. Coventry has been worried like that too.

I tend to think that big projects make smaller ones around it more viable, but I can see why he might be sceptical.


I don't have any problems with HS2 per se but you can understand the concerns of those places such as Wolves, Coventry and Huddersfield that could easily get left out

I have said before a more positive view on public transport, well-focused investment and integration of the different transport systems - simpler ticketing and using technology.

Oyster cards, mobile payments etc are all available now in London but scarce elsewhere - you can understand why someone from the provinces gets frustrated


Absolutely, yes.

Did you spot the new convert to borrowing for investment over the weekend? Step forward, Mr Boris Johnson.



He is really quite difficult to miss but his actual comments are usually lost in a whirlwind of obfuscation - I remember the comedy 2012 having him down to a tee - well worth trying to catch if you haven't seen it yet


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:33 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Oh, and having lived in Huddersfield the idea of being a satellite of, and dependent on, Leeds is not a popular view....even if some people from there do support LUFC!


Paradoxically, it might get a better deal on rail if it could persuade the powers that be that it was intimately connected to Leeds or Manchester, and considered part of their commuter networks. Not that all rail travellers are commuters, but if there are lots of them, the good off peak services follow.

Unfortunately, Huddersfield United have chosen this moment to rise to the Premier League, so rail planners won't be thinking that!


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:46 pm 
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Ah, there are some new trains at least coming to Transpennine next year, and more in 2019.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransPenn ... ture_fleet

I don't know if that's all that much, because a lot of trains run on those routes.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 7:49 pm 
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First Bus has a mobile app that allows you to buy electronic tickets online. Not sure how reliable it is, mind ;)

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“Hope for the Best. Expect the worst. Life is a play. We're unrehearsed.”


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:00 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
On buses, London had a big headstart with Oyster (being allowed to regulate them properly, having a mayor who'd take it forward, and having lots of bus users so that the investment wasn't too daunting). But as you probably know, it's shifting over to contactless bank cards and running down Oyster which saves it a lot of money.

I'd like to know why nationwide buses couldn't be run off the contactless system, missing out the Oyster stage altogether.



yes, I saw that last time I was there, the use of contactless cards (and my mate used his apple watch but did look a bit of a knob when waving his arm frantically over the sensor)

In Wolverhampton the buses don't give change and so you have to make sure you have the right fare - bloody useless

Moving to an Oyster-style system doesn't always go smoothly, just ask the residents of Manchester.

https://medium.com/@sushilnash/a-beginn ... a6d1dde246


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:01 pm 
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I'm no expert on public transport policy, though I'm a pretty experienced user!

My recollection is that Thatcher's privatisation of the buses expressly forbade cooperation and through ticketing. It was competition between different providers that was going to drive up quality and drive down prices.

That needs to change. Even in the tiny town of Holmfirth you can board buses from at least three providers. And most tickets and passes are only valid on one of them.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Johnson has just accused the head of UK Statistics of "wilful misrepresentation".


Can't really see him winning that one, can you?


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:16 pm 
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https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... d-guidance

Consultation outcome
Bus Services Bill: draft regulations and guidance

Research and analysis
Transport benefits from big data and the 'internet of things' in smart cities

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... art-cities


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:18 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Johnson has just accused the head of UK Statistics of "wilful misrepresentation".


Can't really see him winning that one, can you?

Jump and shark are words that come to mind :twisted:


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:40 pm 
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Have we already linked this uncompromising Groan editorial?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... us-fantasy


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:49 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Have we already linked this uncompromising Groan editorial?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... us-fantasy



From your linked article -

Quote:
The task for all those who believe that Brexit will be a disaster is first to mitigate it and second to ensure responsibility and blame are pinned to the irresponsible clique of Bullingdon boys who brought us to the cliff edge of the referendum and then pushed us off (my emphasis)


Or just "pushed off" in David Cameron's case.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 8:59 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
Johnson has just accused the head of UK Statistics of "wilful misrepresentation".


Can't really see him winning that one, can you?


No. Shapps, Hunt and Gove were clever enough when called out not to double down v UK Stats.

The Royal Statistical Society are taking an interest too.

May can't even get the Foreign Secretary to unite behind her Brexit. Utter farce. Even the Telegraph, while providing a platform for this, flagged up that it was strange he should revive £350m a week. Wonder if somebody there egged him on, and fancies having him back writing full time?


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 9:01 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... r-election

Germany's rightwing AfD party could lead opposition after election


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 9:07 pm 
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http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political ... l-averages

Nothing between top two in poll averages

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political ... urned-away

About 80,000 people placed their ballots on Friday, with nearly twice the number of votes cast so far compared to the same time in 2014.

(NZ)


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Night night.


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 9:31 pm 
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Ouch! This is Sir Martin Narey to a Times journo:

Image


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 9:38 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... and-steady

The Guardian view on Germany’s election: slow and steady


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Why is the UK’s supposedly impartial statistics watchdog joining the Boris-bashing?

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/w ... s-bashing/


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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 10:23 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Why is the UK’s supposedly impartial statistics watchdog joining the Boris-bashing?

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/w ... s-bashing/


But as Boris argued in the campaign debates, the gross figure matters.

Eh?

That seems to be assuming that when we leave the EU, they will continue to give us the rebate! Whatever it costs us now is what we'll control afterwards - what it starts out at is irrelevant.

I have mo idea why that article then goes on about taxation.

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PostPosted: Sun 17 Sep, 2017 11:22 pm 
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I would imagine that Theresa May must be quite pleased with this latest unseemly row between the Foreign Secretary and the most senior statistician in public life.

Not exactly what one might expect from a potential Prime Minister...

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PostPosted: Mon 18 Sep, 2017 12:08 am 
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The figure with the rebate knocked off is "gross". This is spectacular lying by Johnson and all.


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