Saturday 23rd & Sunday 24th September 2017

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 6:47 pm

Earlier on thread
Is the use of the word, 'interesting', anything like Mr. Spock's use of the word, 'fascinating'?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:10 pm

Far too little grabbing of microphone/being told to shut up for my liking ,but there was a bit.Also references to The Divine Comedy by Dante.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:16 pm

No votes on anything to do with Brexit.

Arf. What a party.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:17 pm

Comrade!!!!!.
(comrade)

COMRADE.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:27 pm

"Drone dog"

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looks like the CDU have done quite a bit worse in the German elections than was predicted.

Dreadful performance for the SPD but that *was* expected. They are already briefing they will go into opposition, which frankly can't happen too soon.
Populists offeriing solutions in crayon on the march everywhere, even in Germany.
Blaming the electorate isn't going to work any better for your tendency now than it did for the left in the 1980s.

I wonder if it's exactly what the SPD need to do. Want to vote for those goons in Germany, where there's plenty of choice and PR, and you don't deserve anybody to listen to your "concerns".

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:34 pm

Could you elaborate on how that would "work"?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:38 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ip-hammond" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Matt has another article yonda
this ought to be good

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:40 pm

Call out the lies across the board, and don't hide your contempt of people who believe them, or don't care about them.

I caught a glimpse of one of their doubtless more presentable people on the news earlier, who lied about women in Germany not being able to go out because they'd be attacked by refugees. That's Prison Planet Sweden bollocks. Go full Al Franken on it. Lies and the lying liars who tell them.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:41 pm

"Except there was no race to succeed May. Instead, her moribund government was spared immediate extinction by a collective act of self-hypnosis. Precisely when they most needed to act with resolve, Tory MPs were paralysed by the scale of what had happened, by a curious mix of arrogance and self-loathing, and by a terror that the further upheaval of a leadership contest might hasten Jeremy Corbyn’s passage to No 10."

'Arrogance and self-loathing'
run with that one, Tories

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:42 pm

Ah ok. cheers.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:50 pm

"No wonder Corbyn is smiling."

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:52 pm

"This is a Momentum and Campaign For Labour Democracy stitch up," Labour MP for Edinburgh South Ian Murray told BuzzFeed News. "They talk about party democracy but stop the debate on the biggest issue our country has faced in generations."
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/thes ... .maLq6Ypdq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Discuss]

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:55 pm

At the moment I have the right to live, work and play anywhere I want across quite a large and diverse area.
The people of Britain, including the party of which I am a member, want to deny me that right.
I am yet to hear anything that makes me understand why leaving Europe is good idea from the left.
Or indeed the right. And no matter how many people I ask, no-one as yet has provided me with any insight.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 7:59 pm

@tinyclanger2
You're a Tory party member?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:01 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
"This is a Momentum and Campaign For Labour Democracy stitch up," Labour MP for Edinburgh South Ian Murray told BuzzFeed News. "They talk about party democracy but stop the debate on the biggest issue our country has faced in generations."
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamieross/thes ... .maLq6Ypdq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
[Discuss]

"And the message coming from my eyes
Says leave it alone"

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:03 pm

When is a good time to vote on the Single Market? This time next year the talks are supposed to be done.

I think a special Brexit conference is going to be needed.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:05 pm

The restriction or removal of freedom is not something we should really leave alone.
Is it?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:42 pm

http://www.boredteenagers.co.uk/hoax1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
had forgotten about Rafters and the Mayflower.
Crikey.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:48 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... w-audience" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Britain's newspapers could learn a lot from Jimmy the milkman
Hugh Muir

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:49 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ep-concern" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Falling number of NHS child psychiatrists provokes 'deep concern'

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:50 pm

Anti-fascist protesters flood Berlin streets as far-right celebrates historic election result
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 65041.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:51 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... healthcare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ted Cruz joins Republicans ranged against Graham-Cassidy healthcare bill

The Trump administration’s latest efforts to replace the Affordable Care Act (ACA) appeared to be disintegrating over the weekend, as a growing number of Republican senators indicated they would vote against the so-called Graham-Cassidy bill.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:59 pm

Sadiq Khan has accused Donald Trump of adopting language similar to that used by Islamic State when he suggested a “total and complete shutdown” of US borders to Muslims.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... milar-isis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 8:59 pm

"...Monty Python Presents Brexit. Christ Jesus, we even have a leadership hopeful named Rees-Mogg. It's like a Lewis Carol poem."

- AaronClausen

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:00 pm

Night night.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:00 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Sadiq Khan has accused Donald Trump of adopting language similar to that used by Islamic State when he suggested a “total and complete shutdown” of US borders to Muslims.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... milar-isis" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Extremists always sound like one another
Eric Hoffer
The True Believer

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:01 pm

PorFavor wrote:Night night.

Goodnight, PorFavor

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:08 pm

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:09 pm

Therefore, by not having a kid you could be saving the planet.
https://www.indy100.com/article/worst-d ... paign=i100" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:21 pm

If we all decide to possibly save the planet.......

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:47 pm

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:48 pm

Hi Eric

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 9:53 pm

HindleA wrote:Hi Eric

Hi. (Been lurking on and off due to other distractions - Edinburgh Festivals, holidays, family birthdays etc).

Post by **adam** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:01 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:...In the end we need to enthuse people about the final deal...

The final deal, which will be negotiated and agreed by this conservative government and could possibly turn out to be leaving without a deal, will in any possible event be worse than what we have now, worse for the UK's economy, for our political and social culture, for jobs and benefits and wages and working conditions, for policies on immigration and for a culture of diversity, worse all round, and I simply do not understand why we should be trying to enthuse anybody about any of this, at all, ever.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:01 pm

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/edi ... 64676.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
His fear that the internal market could prevent a Labour government pursuing policies on state aid, and renationalisation sounds like a throwback to the idea of “socialism in one country”, which would be impossible to achieve in today’s interconnected world.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:12 pm

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/u ... ry-fantasy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Lexiteers claim exactly this. That the EU would prevent Labour from renationalising, under its rules favouring the private sector. The argument quickly becomes technical and clearly there are ways that EU membership restricts a government’s freedom of action. But it does not prevent the exercise of all self-interested national economic measures.

In July, to take the most immediate example, the still fresh President Macron nationalised shipyards about to be taken over by an Italian bidder.

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:18 pm

Saw a play last week ("What Shadows") about Enoch Powell and his "Rivers of Blood" Speech. The similarities between Powell and Johnson (attitudes and classical education) were staggering.

The main difference - Powell lost his shadow cabinet job, Johnson is still peddling his prejudices from a position of power).

Stunning performance by Ian McDiarmid as Enoch Powell.

Post by **adam** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:24 pm

Apologies if the article is already linked to anywhere above, but I'll link again just to add this quote here.

May’s delirious cabinet is in denial about who really controls Brexit Ancona in the guardian.

The Florence speech was meant, at least, to secure a measure of cabinet unity and has failed even in that respect. But the greater absurdity is that senior Tories are now squabbling semi-publicly as though it is they, rather than the EU 27, who will primarily dictate the form, cost and timescale of Brexit. Jorge Luis Borges famously described the Falklands war as two bald men fighting over a comb. Hammond and Johnson are two bald men arguing over a comb that belongs to somebody else.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:27 pm

Here's a review from last year:-

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/ ... och-powell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:30 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote: My bet is still that Ireland will be the subject that will force the hands of the parties - and there is no solution to Ireland that does not involve a very close ongoing relationship with the EU.....and I think Labour will go for that in the end

This.

I don't really know why Labour aren't picking away at this, because in the end tory brexit will unravel over it. That could be sooner rather than later if attention was dragged away from money and citizens rights - those things are very important but solvable within the tory party in the end. Why not talk about the insoluble issue first instead of wasting time.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:36 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -card-debt" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour to pledge help for millions trapped by credit card debt
John McDonnell’s plan would bring industry regulations into line with payday loan companies

Eric_WLothian · Post by **Eric_WLothian** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 10:40 pm

HindleA wrote:Here's a review from last year:-

https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2016/ ... och-powell" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yes - It was the Birmingham Rep production but it was a different cast (apart from Ian Mcdiarmid) in Edinburgh.

I can just about remember the speech (or rather the controversy surrounding it) as a 22 year old student at the time.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 11:07 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-a ... e-exercise" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

UK AT HEART OF INTERNATIONAL MISSILE DEFENCE EXERCISE

US-led Exercise Formidable Shield has today begun in waters off the West Coast of Scotland.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 11:09 pm

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Sun 24 Sep, 2017 11:20 pm

gilsey wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: My bet is still that Ireland will be the subject that will force the hands of the parties - and there is no solution to Ireland that does not involve a very close ongoing relationship with the EU.....and I think Labour will go for that in the end
This.

I don't really know why Labour aren't picking away at this, because in the end tory brexit will unravel over it. That could be sooner rather than later if attention was dragged away from money and citizens rights - those things are very important but solvable within the tory party in the end. Why not talk about the insoluble issue first instead of wasting time.

Yeah, I think that's right. More generally, I think Labour should have called out the Brexit chickens before they come home to roost.

Then again, Labour did take the Tories' majority away while not listening to me!

Sky'sGoneOut · Post by **Sky'sGoneOut** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 12:05 am

Was in a pub in a town last week that has one Indian and one Chinese restaurant, where everyone you see is white and almost exclusively middle class, where half of them wear Barbour jackets. And yet still I heard whingeing about immigration.

It was the town I grew up in, the town where the only 'immigrants' are people from Edinburgh or Newcastle prepared to commute from there to work. So much so that when I go back there now half the town supports Newcastle fucking United or Hearts or Hibs. It was never like that when I was a kid.

We had our own accent and lingo based on Romanian gypsy words because historically the place had been a horse market.

But that's all gone now. It's all soft Geordie or Lowland Scots.

And yet you have dickheads in the pub complaining about immigration while supporting Newcastle.

It's a crazy fucking world.