Monday 25th September 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 7:08 am

Morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41381583" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour to offer some women earlier retirement option

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 7:21 am

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The shorter your sleep, the shorter your life: the new sleep science

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 7:38 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41381583" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Labour to offer some women earlier retirement option

This shouldn't be done. Frances Coppola is good on this.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 7:54 am

Thought the horse's head in the bed got the point across well,to be fair.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 7:59 am

HindleA wrote:Thought the horse's head in the bed got the point across well,to be fair.

I wonder how often she hears that insult (or at least a comprehensible version of it) on a daily basis?

Frances is really good on lots of issues.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:00 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
HindleA wrote:Thought the horse's head in the bed got the point across well,to be fair.

I wonder how often she hears that insult (or at least a comprehensible version of it) on a daily basis?

Frances is really good on lots of issues.

I'm not familiar with Frances Coppola - I can't find any information on her.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:02 am

Good morfternoon.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:04 am

PorFavor wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
HindleA wrote:Thought the horse's head in the bed got the point across well,to be fair.

I wonder how often she hears that insult (or at least a comprehensible version of it) on a daily basis?

Frances is really good on lots of issues.
I'm not familiar with Frances Coppola - I can't find any information on her.

Try Google. She is the first entry.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:20 am

Continued support of a Party,doesn't of course mean,as you suggest unthinkingly,unthinking support and/or policies.The biggest frustration I had under Labour was the DWP actively working against other progressive aims,where,in effect,investment was presented/dealt with as a problem,rather than part of the solution.It still retains,but at least Abraham's seem to get it,to a degree,unlike predecessors.That is not to say,by any means I will suspend criticism,where I see fit.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:23 am

McDonnell still burbling on about tariff free access in radio 4.

Tariffs are not the problem as he must surely know.

Just awful.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:24 am

How is it an insult,for goodness sake.It is self mocking.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:30 am

HindleA wrote:How is it an insult,for goodness sake.It is self mocking.

You are a woman whose name sounds the same as the director of the Godfather?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:31 am

Cat Smith and Emily Thornberry both going with the line that Labour didn't lose the election.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:34 am

McDonnell now adds construction to nationalisation list.

Bonkers.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:47 am

SpinningHugo wrote:McDonnell now adds construction to nationalisation list.

Bonkers.

Why? With evidence and argument please?

And good morning

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:52 am

Perhaps,she may tend not to read FTN,but who knows.If so I have now made it clear.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:54 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:McDonnell now adds construction to nationalisation list.

Bonkers.
Why? With evidence and argument please?

And good morning

We have a functioning competitive market in construction. That will be lost.

The state has, globally but especially in the UK, proven poor at running businesses like this because it is subject to producer capture (which is why producers like it).

The opportunity costs are enormous.

It would necessitate leaving the single market, as contrary to state aid and competition rules.

(Corbyn and McDonnell are not very closet Lexiters)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:56 am

I didn't build that bloody wall,despite fifty years of people asking how long it look.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 8:56 am

Morning all.

Hugo playing to the gallery again I see.

And "try Google"?

If there's something worth reading on the subject in question try adding a link. Oh, and lighten up.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:02 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:McDonnell now adds construction to nationalisation list.

Bonkers.
Why? With evidence and argument please?

And good morning
We have a functioning competitive market in construction. That will be lost.

The state has, globally but especially in the UK, proven poor at running businesses like this because it is subject to producer capture (which is why producers like it).

The opportunity costs are enormous.

It would necessitate leaving the single market, as contrary to state aid and competition rules.

(Corbyn and McDonnell are not very closet Lexiters)

Thanks. On the penultimate point (if you count the last line as a point

), this very recent blog is quite useful.

http://www.renewal.org.uk/blog/eu-law-i ... -programme" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Neither EU state aid rules, nor other EU rules which are distinct from state aid rules but sometimes considered in the same bracket, provide any obvious barrier to the implementation in the UK of the measures contained in Labour’s 2017 election manifesto.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:02 am

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Hugo playing to the gallery again I see.

And "try Google"?

If there's something worth reading on the subject in question try adding a link. Oh, and lighten up.

I think you must be the only one who looks at "the gallery". I don't.

I do sometimes pop over to Another Place to read the usual self reinforcing consensus.

And m on my phone as traveling for work. Links are tricky, and she has written extensively about it. Not hard to find.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:07 am

To reinforce your consensus,of course.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:07 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.

Hugo playing to the gallery again I see.

And "try Google"?

If there's something worth reading on the subject in question try adding a link. Oh, and lighten up.
I think you must be the only one who looks at "the gallery". I don't.

I do sometimes pop over to Another Place to read the usual self reinforcing consensus.

And m on my phone as traveling for work. Links are tricky, and she has written extensively about it. Not hard to find.

As you know I spend some time in Another Place. Maybe the same one you refer to. There is indeed one subject on which there is almost complete consensus

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:09 am

No objection to a double booking.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:11 am

Today's agenda,for those interested.

http://www.labour.org.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:21 am

Did the weather hold out,for clothes drying purposes and have you finshed the ironing?

Post by **adam** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:25 am

I also like to spend time at Another Place although I don't get there as often as I'd like.

: no_stavanger_anotherplace_1998_001.jpg (205.9 KiB) Viewed 21531 times

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:25 am

SpinningHugo wrote: And m on my phone as traveling for work. Links are tricky, and she has written extensively about it. Not hard to find.

Then maybe just say "She has written about this something but can't post the link right now."

It costs nothing to be polite...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:35 am

Indeed, a dose of politeness would be good.

We don't have moderators here, so self-moderation is needed both in respect of fellow posters here, and on other sites, who could take offence.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:38 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:[
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:McDonnell now adds construction to nationalisation list.

Bonkers.
Why? With evidence and argument please?

And good morning
We have a functioning competitive market in construction. That will be lost.

The state has, globally but especially in the UK, proven poor at running businesses like this because it is subject to producer capture (which is why producers like it).

The opportunity costs are enormous.

It would necessitate leaving the single market, as contrary to state aid and competition rules.

(Corbyn and McDonnell are not very closet Lexiters)

Thanks. On the penultimate point (if you count the last line as a point

), this very recent blog is quite useful.

http://www.renewal.org.uk/blog/eu-law-i ... -programme" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Neither EU state aid rules, nor other EU rules which are distinct from state aid rules but sometimes considered in the same bracket, provide any obvious barrier to the implementation in the UK of the measures contained in Labour’s 2017 election manifesto.

[/quote]

I agree with the blog.

Good luck nationalising the construction industry in the single market.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:41 am

I've found this -

Women Against State Pension Inequality: a distraction from deeper problems

http://www.historyandpolicy.org/opinion ... r-problems

which people here might find interesting.

It's by Hugh Pemberton* - but I found it by Googling Frances Coppola.

*About the author

Hugh Pemberton is Reader in Contemporary British History at the University of Bristol. He is presently the Principle Investigator on the Arts and Humanities Research Council project ‘Thatcher’s Pension Reforms and their Consequences’ and has written extensively on the history of British politics since the Second World War.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:57 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... outhampton" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Decision
CAC Outcome: UCU & University of Southampton

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:59 am

PorFavor wrote:I've found this -

Women Against State Pension Inequality: a distraction from deeper problems
http://www.historyandpolicy.org/opinion ... r-problems

which people here might find interesting.

It's by Hugh Pemberton* - but I found it by Googling Frances Coppola.

*About the author

Hugh Pemberton is Reader in Contemporary British History at the University of Bristol. He is presently the Principle Investigator on the Arts and Humanities Research Council project ‘Thatcher’s Pension Reforms and their Consequences’ and has written extensively on the history of British politics since the Second World War.

Something that is interesting as we settle into (?) the Corbyn era of the Labour Party is a move from (I don't know what the right words are here) a "rational" approach to policy to a "campaigning" approach.

This is not to say I think the latter is irrational. It's a different way of working that may end up in the same place. So WASPI have caught the public imagination and media attention. One could say, but we need to consider everyone else in the same situation to be rational. And this could risk losing the political momentum. Or one could say let's roll with this, get a change near legislation and then check to make sure it's fair.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 9:59 am

Naomi Klein is this years,international speaker tomorrow.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:25 am

You've changed your picture,whereas Glenis Willmott hasn't changed her blouse from yesterday(unless she has two exactly the same).As ever,I bring the vital information,which is sadly lacking.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:26 am

And your signature.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:28 am

Morning.

On the WASPI discussion.

As long as Labour are very, very clear at all times that they are opposed to and and want to mitigate the very unfair 2011 act that accelerated pension age parity leaving some women with very little notice of change but still support the aim of the original 1995 act that gave plenty of warning of bringing women's pension age in line with men's, I do not see a problem with some qualified support for "WASPI women".

I do feel, however, that Labour shouldn't allow themselves to be sidetracked by this niche issue that affects a limited number of people. There are much bigger pension problems looming and the Tory response of complacency and simply making working class people work for longer and longer until they simply don't survive long enough to draw one needs to be fought so the current generation can also enjoy a pension before they turn 70 as all WASPI women can currently expect, even if they have to wait longer than they may have been planning on prior to 1995.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:28 am

Good-morning, everyone

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:30 am

William Hague as a 16 year old speech at the Tory Conference,was oft repeated.There was a 16 year old at Labour's yesterday who uttered "bollocks".I know which one I prefer.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:30 am

It can't be a coincidence that whenever things are going well, we end up arguing with and/or about the same 'thing' (at the same time also I suspect not coincidentally, rendering the place less attractive).

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:34 am

So, the widely reported "fake news" from our ever reliable MSM last night that Brexit wouldn't be debated at conference.

Its happening right now!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:36 am

@Willow(or anybody else)If you are unaware,want to make views known etc.

https://www.policyforum.labour.org.uk/a ... nsultation" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:38 am

As a rambling additional thought to the policy of raising women's pension age from 60 to 65+, although it seems like a straightforward save to the public purse, I can't help but muse on the quite substantial loss of free childcare. The generation of women being able to go back to work because of childcare help from grandparents is something of a one time deal. We now have record numbers of women in work and if they are all working to 65+ they can no longer be relied on for free childcare of grandchildren, so I presume the government has an answer to this? (heavy sarcasm warning).

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:41 am

No not that Brexit,the other one,tsk.

Post by **adam** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:41 am

RobertSnozers wrote:Where we're from the birds sing a pretty song and there's always music in the air

If you start giving away any spoilers from the new stuff I'm going to have to block you.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:46 am

Not rambling,I refer to my previous "get it" above ie.the interconnections.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:50 am

Willow904 wrote:Morning.

On the WASPI discussion.

As long as Labour are very, very clear at all times that they are opposed to and and want to mitigate the very unfair 2011 act that accelerated pension age parity leaving some women with very little notice of change but still support the aim of the original 1995 act that gave plenty of warning of bringing women's pension age in line with men's, I do not see a problem with some qualified support for "WASPI women".

Exceptionally well put, thank you.

Speaking as one of the worst affected, but would never associate myself with WASPI. Where were they in 2011?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:53 am

AnatolyKasparov wrote:So, the widely reported "fake news" from our ever reliable MSM last night that Brexit wouldn't be debated at conference.

Its happening right now!

With a vote?

Don't be daft.

As McDonnell said, too divisive.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 10:56 am

Feeling left out,Japan having an election a year early.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 25 Sep, 2017 11:00 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:So, the widely reported "fake news" from our ever reliable MSM last night that Brexit wouldn't be debated at conference.

Its happening right now!

With a vote?

Don't be daft.

As McDonnell said, too divisive.

What's the point of the opposition having a vote on a policy that is being debated in the House? The debate on The Great Repeal has started. It will continue. There will be votes. Ones that could actually mean something.