Wednesday 27th September 2017
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
In broader terms,non of the various phrases are applicable to me.Starting my own Party.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
RobertSnozers wrote:]
I find it hard to believe your grasp of comprehension is so poor
obnoxious, arrogant, sneering, dismissive,
One thing I don't think I can be accused of is not offering policy solutions. I post policy all the time
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I rather like dull.This is scandalous.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I am boring,dull but I get things done,largely because nobody notices until it is too late.Has served me well over the years.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
"How are you going to pay for this stuff post-Brexit?" and "Is this the most progressive use of the money?" seem like impertinent questions at the moment.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its the staggering and unjustified sense of entitlement that gets me - "put us in charge because WE KNOW BEST and don't ask any impertinent questions".
Mind blowing.
I don't like left populism. It'll fall flat on its arse in office.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I don't mind such things being asked in good faith. The problem is they all too often aren't.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its the staggering and unjustified sense of entitlement that gets me - "put us in charge because WE KNOW BEST and don't ask any impertinent questions".
Mind blowing.
Again, who specifically do you think can fairly be accused of that?
Or, again, is that just the kind of thing Centrist Dads ought to say and think?
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Doesn't make them bad questions. As Orwell might have said (there should be an equivalent to Godwin for whoever shoehorns Orwell in first, I don't normally do that, but it's a genuinely good one) something doesn't become wrong just because Jim Murphy's said it.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Afternoon folks,
This probably puts Ryanair in a good post-Brexit position, if the Open Skies agreement falls down.
http://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-40-vo ... s-11055749" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;400,000 hit by new Ryanair cancellations to solve pilot crisis
The fresh cancellations mean that all of the airline's domestic mainland UK flights will cease over the winter period.
This probably puts Ryanair in a good post-Brexit position, if the Open Skies agreement falls down.
Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
(cJA emphasis)55DegreesNorth wrote:Afternoon folks,
http://news.sky.com/story/ryanair-40-vo ... s-11055749" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;400,000 hit by new Ryanair cancellations to solve pilot crisis
The fresh cancellations mean that all of the airline's domestic mainland UK flights will cease over the winter period.
This probably puts Ryanair in a good post-Brexit position, if the Open Skies agreement falls down.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Apart from Frances O'Grady and Manuel Cortes, senior trade unionists aren't distinguishing themselves at the moment. I'm worried re Corbyn on the Single Market, but I do appreciate there are pressures. McCluskey needs to be much more focussed on keeping his members' jobs, frankly.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I thought that Andrew Gwynne was also quite good earlier on the Beeb, pointing out that much of what Labour is proposing works well in other countries.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Doesn't make them bad questions. As Orwell might have said (there should be an equivalent to Godwin for whoever shoehorns Orwell in first, I don't normally do that, but it's a genuinely good one) something doesn't become wrong just because Jim Murphy's said it.
Too much populism is never good, but if forced to choose I would rather have more of the optimistic "can do" left variety than the right wing version.
(which has of course had much more traction in recent years - until now)
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
For some reason brings to mind (many) academics.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its the staggering and unjustified sense of entitlement that gets me - "put us in charge because WE KNOW BEST and don't ask any impertinent questions".
Mind blowing.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
He's good, and I'm pleased he's accommodated himself to the new leadership.AnatolyKasparov wrote:I thought that Andrew Gwynne was also quite good earlier on the Beeb, pointing out that much of what Labour is proposing works well in other countries.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Doesn't make them bad questions. As Orwell might have said (there should be an equivalent to Godwin for whoever shoehorns Orwell in first, I don't normally do that, but it's a genuinely good one) something doesn't become wrong just because Jim Murphy's said it.
Too much populism is never good, but if forced to choose I would rather have more of the optimistic "can do" left variety than the right wing version.
(which has of course had much more traction in recent years - until now)
It's a fair point, provided what he's suggesting does actually happen and work well in other countries. Rail, as you know, is a bit of a hobby horse of mine. I don't think that the places mentioned run nationalized systems without big subsidies for tickets prices. We've not had a commitment to find money for subsidizing ticket prices.
I'd be happy to pay more tax for ticket subsidies, but that's not really a plan.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Here's something that could be a plan-
Have ambitious policies that get people excited, as is happening now. And in a few months, say "you want those? got to be the EEA then".
Even with the overreach, as I see it, I'd be happy to go along with that.
Have ambitious policies that get people excited, as is happening now. And in a few months, say "you want those? got to be the EEA then".
Even with the overreach, as I see it, I'd be happy to go along with that.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Including an awful lot of them on Twittertinyclanger2 wrote:For some reason brings to mind (many) academics.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its the staggering and unjustified sense of entitlement that gets me - "put us in charge because WE KNOW BEST and don't ask any impertinent questions".
Mind blowing.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
But of course other places aren't, as things stand, charging out of their biggest market, and trashing their reputation with "liberal elites" who really matter.
And more generally, we have to be very careful about assuming that the positive stuff about now- relatively low inflation, cheap borrowing, competiveness (albeit more on price than we'd like) are going to be around forever.
And more generally, we have to be very careful about assuming that the positive stuff about now- relatively low inflation, cheap borrowing, competiveness (albeit more on price than we'd like) are going to be around forever.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Despite the noises still coming from some of the leadership on occasion, I think its clear which direction Labour policy on Brexit is going now.
It won't satisfy the Remainer fundamentalists, but nothing will for them save the restoration of the status quo unchangably and forever.
(the mood music from JC in today's speech was also consistent with this, even if - unsurprisingly - there were few concrete commitments)
It won't satisfy the Remainer fundamentalists, but nothing will for them save the restoration of the status quo unchangably and forever.
(the mood music from JC in today's speech was also consistent with this, even if - unsurprisingly - there were few concrete commitments)
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
No change on Brexit, then the policies are fantasy.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Also pleased to see George Eaton being more balanced with respect to Corbyn's leadership.
Whether he can bring the whole of the Staggers with him remains to be seen!
Whether he can bring the whole of the Staggers with him remains to be seen!
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
The Canary has made a complete arse of itself re Kuensberg. Do the complaints by the book, there are plenty you can make.
People "inviting" famous people to their crap events is the oldest trick in the book. Surprised Nelson Mandela and Bill Clinton weren't invited too.
People "inviting" famous people to their crap events is the oldest trick in the book. Surprised Nelson Mandela and Bill Clinton weren't invited too.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
http://www.publicsectorexecutive.com/Pu ... als-by-lgo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bradford told to review over 500 benefit appeals by LGO
Bradford Council has been told to review more than 500 benefit applications after the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman (LGO) found delays in the authority’s process.
The Ombudsman unearthed the problem after an investigation into a single complaint sent to Bradford Metropolitan District Council over how long it was taking for a woman’s housing benefit appeal to get to the First Tier Tribunal.
During this investigation, the council then told the LGO that 519 housing benefit appeals were waiting to be passed to the tribunal, with some dating back to as far as February 2015.
Bradford told to review over 500 benefit appeals by LGO
Bradford Council has been told to review more than 500 benefit applications after the Local Government and Social Care Ombudsman (LGO) found delays in the authority’s process.
The Ombudsman unearthed the problem after an investigation into a single complaint sent to Bradford Metropolitan District Council over how long it was taking for a woman’s housing benefit appeal to get to the First Tier Tribunal.
During this investigation, the council then told the LGO that 519 housing benefit appeals were waiting to be passed to the tribunal, with some dating back to as far as February 2015.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Evening all
Why is 'populism' such a bad word in all aspects as is being suggested
Trump problem isn't that he 'populist' policies, it is just the population he is aiming at are racist bigots!
He is not that popular either so surely his policies aren't that popular
Seems to me it is a lazy way to label people in a sneering way.....surely we would want Corbyn to have policies that are relatively popular?
As to whether they are all achievable - well, probably not but as Anatoly suggested earlier I would rather we had a direction that actually wants to make things better than a lot of miserable shit that comes out of the Tories (only miserable if you are poor though....)
Blair was a populist two back in the day......didn't seem to bother him then.
Why is 'populism' such a bad word in all aspects as is being suggested
Trump problem isn't that he 'populist' policies, it is just the population he is aiming at are racist bigots!
He is not that popular either so surely his policies aren't that popular
Seems to me it is a lazy way to label people in a sneering way.....surely we would want Corbyn to have policies that are relatively popular?
As to whether they are all achievable - well, probably not but as Anatoly suggested earlier I would rather we had a direction that actually wants to make things better than a lot of miserable shit that comes out of the Tories (only miserable if you are poor though....)
Blair was a populist two back in the day......didn't seem to bother him then.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
AK: As you've probably gathered I think the very notion of Brexit is appalling. This could eventually have consequences for my relationship with the Labour Party but am waiting to see what happens (suffice it to say am not ecstatic it at the moment). Does that mean that I am a "remainer fundamentalist"? Or do you mean something more specific?
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
HSOM - am not sure that it is really sneering. I think it is more that populism has started to be used in a very specific way, so it no longer means something along the lines of appealing to ordinairy people, but something along the nationlistic, xenophobic trajectory. It's a bit like sustainability started being used to mean a number of specific things to different groups of specific people in the late 90s and early 2000s.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I don't think they made a 'complete arse of itself' at all - was fair to ask the questionTubby Isaacs wrote:The Canary has made a complete arse of itself re Kuensberg. Do the complaints by the book, there are plenty you can make.
People "inviting" famous people to their crap events is the oldest trick in the book. Surprised Nelson Mandela and Bill Clinton weren't invited too.
Kuennsberg is an appalling journalist - not for her politics - she is just useless
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
tinyclanger2 wrote:HSOM - am not sure that it is really sneering. I think it is more that populism has started to be used in a very specific way, so it no longer means something along the lines of appealing to ordinairy people, but something along the nationlistic, xenophobic trajectory. It's a bit like sustainability started being used to mean a number of specific things to different groups of specific people in the late 90s and early 2000s.
TC2 - if that is the case then why does someone like Blair should not use it to describe Corbyn or Sanders - or others too
I am not sure these words with moveable definitions are really helpful but seem to be used and I do think in a sneering way (by some anyway!)
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I agree about Kuennsberg completely. It's important to get every complaint in to Ofcom or the BBC Trust or whoever, however bad they are, and assume that somebody is doing that. But this was an easily checkable dud story. I also don't like it when media chooses the most hideous photo (plus photoshopping to make worse) of somebody, especially a woman. Though I come close to making an exception for Gove.howsillyofme1 wrote:I don't think they made a 'complete arse of itself' at all - was fair to ask the questionTubby Isaacs wrote:The Canary has made a complete arse of itself re Kuensberg. Do the complaints by the book, there are plenty you can make.
People "inviting" famous people to their crap events is the oldest trick in the book. Surprised Nelson Mandela and Bill Clinton weren't invited too.
Kuennsberg is an appalling journalist - not for her politics - she is just useless
Do this sort of thing by the book.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
In a personal capacity I wouldn't describe you as this but some people on here could be described as suchtinyclanger2 wrote:AK: As you've probably gathered I think the very notion of Brexit is appalling. This could eventually have consequences for my relationship with the Labour Party but am waiting to see what happens (suffice it to say am not ecstatic it at the moment). Does that mean that I am a "remainer fundamentalist"? Or do you mean something more specific?
Being totally committed to the belief that Remain is what we should do, to be a strong proponent of whatever that translates to, is perfectly reasonable position to take - as is being a committed Leaver
The issue is when people don't listen to any other view or engage with the arguments made that challenge some of their pronouncements. I can only think of one poster on here who I would describe in that way
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
And some of them have confused that with being right about anything.RobertSnozers wrote:Academics at least know their subject. Some of them have confused that with being right about anything connected with their subject.tinyclanger2 wrote:For some reason brings to mind (many) academics.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Its the staggering and unjustified sense of entitlement that gets me - "put us in charge because WE KNOW BEST and don't ask any impertinent questions".
Mind blowing.
There is a reason folk on Twitter accuse all academics of being lefty 'elites' though...
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Without immortals to guard English (hurrah!) our language evolves and people use it how they want whether we like it or not. It's a gift and a curse. Mostly a gift.howsillyofme1 wrote:tinyclanger2 wrote:HSOM - am not sure that it is really sneering. I think it is more that populism has started to be used in a very specific way, so it no longer means something along the lines of appealing to ordinairy people, but something along the nationlistic, xenophobic trajectory. It's a bit like sustainability started being used to mean a number of specific things to different groups of specific people in the late 90s and early 2000s.
TC2 - if that is the case then why does someone like Blair should not use it to describe Corbyn or Sanders - or others too
I am not sure these words with moveable definitions are really helpful but seem to be used and I do think in a sneering way (by some anyway!)
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I would agree with the 'by the book' approach if it was reciprocated - she is a manipulator of facts (BBC Trust found her guilty of that) and she showed no contrition, supported by her Tory-minister brother bossDo this sort of thing by the book.
Unfortunately fire has to be fought with a bit of fire occasionally....and she is in a stronger position having the BBC 'neutrality' where we all know the Canary has an openly admitted agenda
Are you saying she wasn't listed to speak? Whether she was ever going to take it up is another....why not highlight it?
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Opposing invoking A50 would have been a disaster for Labour electorally, its exactly what May was praying for.SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:People like me need reminding that not everybody in the "Progress" wing of the party is the same.
McGovern eviscerating Kinnock Jr on Twitter last night was an excellent demonstration.
Both of them voted to trigger art 50, neither is really up to much (though on immigration, McGovern is right).
Corbyn held the party together over this - even if only barely - with no little skill.
Politics as a game.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
I pronounce I am six foot three with a massive wanger.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
The policy will remain the successful one.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Despite the noises still coming from some of the leadership on occasion, I think its clear which direction Labour policy on Brexit is going now.
It won't satisfy the Remainer fundamentalists, but nothing will for them save the restoration of the status quo unchangably and forever.
(the mood music from JC in today's speech was also consistent with this, even if - unsurprisingly - there were few concrete commitments)
Just-fractionally-more-remain-y-than-the-Tories. Unprincipled, but useful. Corbyn and McDonnell love it.
What a grave disappointment Starmer has been. Dreadful.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
tinyclanger2 wrote:Without immortals to guard English (hurrah!) our language evolves and people use it how they want whether we like it or not. It's a gift and a curse. Mostly a gift.howsillyofme1 wrote:tinyclanger2 wrote:HSOM - am not sure that it is really sneering. I think it is more that populism has started to be used in a very specific way, so it no longer means something along the lines of appealing to ordinairy people, but something along the nationlistic, xenophobic trajectory. It's a bit like sustainability started being used to mean a number of specific things to different groups of specific people in the late 90s and early 2000s.
TC2 - if that is the case then why does someone like Blair should not use it to describe Corbyn or Sanders - or others too
I am not sure these words with moveable definitions are really helpful but seem to be used and I do think in a sneering way (by some anyway!)
If by using 'populist' Blair was calling Corbyn a xenophobic nationalist then he is an even bigger arse than I thought
If is it just looking for popular policies then ok - although i disagree with his conclusions
He seems to equate the former with the right wing version of Trump so I go with him being an arse
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
tc2 - there is an example for you
you are in no way like that
you are in no way like that
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:I thought that Andrew Gwynne was also quite good earlier on the Beeb, pointing out that much of what Labour is proposing works well in other countries.Tubby Isaacs wrote:Doesn't make them bad questions. As Orwell might have said (there should be an equivalent to Godwin for whoever shoehorns Orwell in first, I don't normally do that, but it's a genuinely good one) something doesn't become wrong just because Jim Murphy's said it.
Too much populism is never good, but if forced to choose I would rather have more of the optimistic "can do" left variety than the right wing version.
(which has of course had much more traction in recent years - until now)
Rent controls, the usual example, don't work anywhere. Even in places like Berlin, with capacity for building and where demand is not growing in the same way as in London, it is a bad idea.
Price fixing is tried in lots of places and times. We know it is bad. That the French, say, sometimes do it doesn't count in its favour.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Which is something the Progress/SPADocrat tendency know all about. Indeed, they know precisely nothing else.SpinningHugo wrote:AnatolyKasparov wrote:Opposing invoking A50 would have been a disaster for Labour electorally, its exactly what May was praying for.SpinningHugo wrote:
Both of them voted to trigger art 50, neither is really up to much (though on immigration, McGovern is right).
Corbyn held the party together over this - even if only barely - with no little skill.
Politics as a game.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Fair enough. I don't disagree.howsillyofme1 wrote:
If by using 'populist' Blair was calling Corbyn a xenophobic nationalist then he is an even bigger arse than I thought
If is it just looking for popular policies then ok - although i disagree with his conclusions
He seems to equate the former with the right wing version of Trump so I go with him being an arse
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Rent controls aren't a panacea, but they DO work elsewhere - this is fully observable.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Evil neo-liberals oppose price fixing
http://blog.shelter.org.uk/2017/09/old- ... -good-for/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://blog.shelter.org.uk/2017/09/old- ... -good-for/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Adam suggested a phrase a few days ago that covered it.howsillyofme1 wrote:tc2 - there is an example for you
you are in no way like that
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Rent controls aren't a panacea, but they DO work elsewhere - this is fully observable.
No. They don't work anywhere at all. They are less harmful in some times and places because the demand pressures are less acute and the price fixing is minimal.
(I'd possibly support Miliband's proposed controls on rent increases once tenants are in situ. that wasn't daft if done correctly.)
We know price fixing is dumb if we know anything at all about economics. It is dumb populism.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Wed 27 Sep, 2017 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
If you don't ration by price, you'll have to ration in some other way
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201605 ... ind-a-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/201605 ... ind-a-home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
don't get complacent though...I am sure we will still fall out occasionally over the details and the definition of Single Market etc - but at least you listen and respond as though you have the ability of rational thought!tinyclanger2 wrote:Adam suggested a phrase a few days ago that covered it.howsillyofme1 wrote:tc2 - there is an example for you
you are in no way like that
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
Marina, brilliant as usual
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
worth it for the last para
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
worth it for the last para
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
In her smug bubble as usual, you mean
How many of her fellow print journalists has she described as "brilliant" today?
How many of her fellow print journalists has she described as "brilliant" today?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
The Canary have retracted their headline. It wasn't true. She was "invited" as Evolve Politics correctly reported, but wasn't "listed as a speaker" as the Canary alleged. It may be splitting hairs, but if they are incorrect with this, what else are they incorrect about? I stopped reading the Canary some time ago because there were too many inaccuracies of this nature. They don't appear a reliable news source.howsillyofme1 wrote:I would agree with the 'by the book' approach if it was reciprocated - she is a manipulator of facts (BBC Trust found her guilty of that) and she showed no contrition, supported by her Tory-minister brother bossDo this sort of thing by the book.
Unfortunately fire has to be fought with a bit of fire occasionally....and she is in a stronger position having the BBC 'neutrality' where we all know the Canary has an openly admitted agenda
Are you saying she wasn't listed to speak? Whether she was ever going to take it up is another....why not highlight it?
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Re: Wednesday 27th September 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:In her smug bubble as usual, you mean
How many of her fellow print journalists has she described as "brilliant" today?
Centrist Dads, one and all.