Wednesday 27th September 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:35 pm

Sobs,referring to my previous post.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:36 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
Thanks. Nothing Blair actually said in that interview remotely supports that inference (needless to say, he never expressly said any such thing.)

"Right, that’s my worry. What they’re—it’s a populism of the left in the same way that the populism of the right doesn’t really provide an answer. I think that populism of the left doesn’t really provide an answer, either."[/quote]

Which is fine, I agree with it.

Just not a claim that Sanders is worse than Trump though, is it?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:37 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:38 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:My comments about Blair above are made much more in sorrow than anger btw. Just saying, before anybody is tempted to say otherwise.

I'd really like you to identify where the quote comes from please.

just saying.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:40 pm

Afternoon cja.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:44 pm

Anybody with any decency would remove themselves.I don't view that as winning,but revealing.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:46 pm

I find, weirdly, that I'm actually now looking forward to the Conservative Party Conference.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:47 pm

PorFavor wrote:I find, weirdly, that I'm actually now looking forward to the Conservative Party Conference.

I'm glad it wasn't just me

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 12:59 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... gures-show" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rise in UK life expectancy slows significantly, figures show
Slowdown may be due to previous successes in defeating major causes of early death, though some link it to cuts in NHS and social care funding

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:00 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:Is there any way we could collectively resist the temptation to fall for SH's stirring?
I think the experience of the last few years shows that the only way to remove the dispute is to remove the source of it. Look at it this way - he posts something egregious, no-one challenges it, he wins. He posts something egregious, people challenge it, he argues back, he wins. Everyone else loses.

Ban him. It's the only way.

Can you describe what a banning policy would look like? How do you avoid banning people just because person a doesn't like person b.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:06 pm

I would have to ban myself,could get complicated.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:11 pm

An egregious post ignored from a commentator we know as well as we do isn't anything

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:13 pm

HindleA wrote:I would have to ban myself,could get complicated.

Or I could do it for you . . .

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:16 pm

PorFavor wrote:
HindleA wrote:I would have to ban myself,could get complicated.

Or I could do it for you . . .

you minx

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:25 pm

Don't take it out on me that your gin consignment fleet of lorries is late.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:25 pm

Also a clear inference that people worry about Trump too much. And again, his comments on Trump and the ME were eye-poppingly bizarre.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:28 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:[quote="SpinningHugo"

Thanks. Nothing Blair actually said in that interview remotely supports that inference (needless to say, he never expressly said any such thing.)

RobertSnozers wrote:"Right, that’s my worry. What they’re—it’s a populism of the left in the same way that the populism of the right doesn’t really provide an answer. I think that populism of the left doesn’t really provide an answer, either."

Which is fine, I agree with it.

Just not a claim that Sanders is worse than Trump though, is it?

It's a claim that the politics espoused by Sanders and Corbyn is as bad as the politics espoused by Trump. (Note the headline said 'as bad', not 'worse' as you are representing it). That strikes me as a slightly sensationalised but not excessively inaccurate paraphrase. It's fair to say that's what Blair is getting at.[/quote]

As a matter of language, it just isn't. It doesn't even mention these people.

It is a centrist saying, rightly, that populism of the left and right doesn't offer solutions.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:29 pm

The UK government is rolling out the big guns against Boeing, with the defence secretary dropping an unsubtle hint that Britain could retaliate.
Sir Michael Fallon has told reporters in Belfast that the UK’s current relationship with Boeing could be damaged by the row. He even suggests that London might decline to buy Boeing products in future...

- UK defence secretary warns Boeing

Wow! Breaking away from Bombardier.... budget airline Ryanair has just extended its flight cancellation programme, affecting an additional 400,000 passengers.
Ryanair is cancelling 34 routes until next year, in a fresh attempt to tackle its rostering crisis that has left it without enough pilots.

- Ryanair forced to cancel more flights

Let's make trains instead
and bicycles
wind turbines
solar panels
houses
flats

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:31 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Also a clear inference that people worry about Trump too much. And again, his comments on Trump and the ME were eye-poppingly bizarre.

I thought the same and wondered about his neurological health
Blair's health
I thought it compromised

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:35 pm

@cja and I noticed your agreement with PF's suggestion.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:35 pm

Neutralised,as you were.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:36 pm

HindleA wrote:@cja and I noticed your agreement with PF's suggestion.

and your own

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:39 pm

For clarity, I thank a lot of posts and my thanks aren't always synonymous with agreement

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:39 pm

Yeah,but posting easilly identifiable lies,as an example,isn't winning.Maybe,I have a different attitude/perspective as to function/purpose of the forum.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:44 pm

I love you cja,not least for your conscientiousness.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:47 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:As a matter of language, it just isn't. It doesn't even mention these people.

It is a centrist saying, rightly, that populism of the left and right doesn't offer solutions.
Honestly, sort your quotes out will you? It's a pain in the behind cleaning up after you.

Also, don't lie

Glasser: You’re not a Bernie Sanders liberal.

Blair: Look, I admire what he has done, and actually, even though I disagree with Jeremy Corbyn a lot in the U.K., I have an admiration for their ability to generate that enthusiasm, particularly among young people.

Glasser: Sure, but neither one of them really sort of projects the future, right, when you’re looking to a sort of angry grandpa mode.

Blair: Right, that’s my worry. What they’re—it’s a populism of the left in the same way that the populism of the right doesn’t really provide an answer. I think that populism of the left doesn’t really provide an answer, either. And the question that I—the things that I would be looking at, if I was back in government today, is the relationship—what are you going to do about the communities left behind?

For the purposes of clarity, the bit you extracted didn't mention Sanders and didn't support your reading. Nor does the longer version.

I had, already above, extracted the one brief mention of Sanders.

If this is the interview AK is referring to, Blair clearly didn't say the things being attributed to him.

A good faith error no doubt. But he never said Sanders is worse than Trump, or anything approaching such a ridiculous statement.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:49 pm

"Thousands of jobs are now at stake, thousands of jobs at risk
A Prime minister betting our economic future on a deregulated trade deal with the US might want to take a moment to explain how 220% tariffs are going to boost our exports from this country."

- Jeremy Corbyn

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 1:50 pm

Back on topic, Rachel Shabi is good isn't she?

Big contrast to 2015, when the BBC somehow thought Lance Price might be the appropriate person to opine on Corbyn's big speech.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:25 pm

No Russ Abbott link.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:31 pm

Oh go on them,since there is a lull.You only have yourselves to blame.

[youtube]RFPLk5mJ1D4[/youtube]

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:34 pm

Rent controls. Groan.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:38 pm

[youtube]4a5vaIsaxB8[/youtube]

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:42 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
If that is not saying that Sanders' politics are AS BAD as those of Trump, I

No.

He says that populism of the left and right don't offer solutions. He is right. He says he admires Sanders. Nowhere does he say that about Trump.

We have an example today from JC of the idiocy of populism. Rent controls. Popular, we do have a housing crisis.

But really dumb. And we know it. We've known it for a very long time.

Give me the dull Centrist Dads.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:42 pm

Indeed,far too much on the triviliaties of life,especiality shelter.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:48 pm

PF's delivery has arrived.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:54 pm

It is one bottle short.She won't be happy.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 2:56 pm

Worth pointing out how utterly ridiculous the Labour 'moderates' now look.

It is one thing opposing Corbyn because you disagree in principle with his politics.

Quite another just opposing him because you thought it would be unpopular. Most of them now look like cynics just chasing votes. Tom Watson and his dreadful 7 Nations Army stuff epitomises.

The number of Labour MPs adopting a serious principled approach to Brexit iis tiny. Mary Creagh? Who else?

Nationalisation. Rent controls. The Lexiteer stuff of "using powers returned from Brussels to support a new industrial strategy ". Dreadful

I was wondering today whether it is just Corbyn's long history that puts me off. So, if we didn't have a record of his lifetime of Bennism, his views on the IRA, Putin, Sierra Leone, Kosovo, Nato, Hamas etc etc would I buy in?

I don't think I would. It isn't very good.

But, it looks like we'll see it in practice come 2022.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:02 pm

[youtube]hM_oov3dU6A[/youtube]

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:04 pm

I don't think I am alone in being bored rigid by the Hugo-centric altercations. It's not like they ever change.

All - once and for all do we want to discuss a banning policy?
I'm not in favour, and on very rare occasions find the discussions with Hugo interesting (perhaps calculated to be just enough to keep decent folk ambivalent) but I am, indeed, very weary of the same old patterns emerging. As I believe I have mentioned before, I wonder if it might work if we just didn't engage. The impulse to call him a liar doesn't really seem to help.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:08 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Back on topic, Rachel Shabi is good isn't she?

Big contrast to 2015, when the BBC somehow thought Lance Price might be the appropriate person to opine on Corbyn's big speech.

Yes, Rachel Shabi is good. Lance Price has been all over Sky's coverage, though.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:09 pm

People like me need reminding that not everybody in the "Progress" wing of the party is the same.

McGovern eviscerating Kinnock Jr on Twitter last night was an excellent demonstration.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:People like me need reminding that not everybody in the "Progress" wing of the party is the same.

McGovern eviscerating Kinnock Jr on Twitter last night was an excellent demonstration.

Both of them voted to trigger art 50, neither is really up to much (though on immigration, McGovern is right).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:23 pm

Damien Green on Jeremy Corbyn's speech -

Labour say they are ready for power but everything we’ve seen this week suggests they’re not fit to govern – and it’s ordinary working people who would end up footing the bill. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Who does he think is footing the bill now, then?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:24 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:People like me need reminding that not everybody in the "Progress" wing of the party is the same.

McGovern eviscerating Kinnock Jr on Twitter last night was an excellent demonstration.

Both of them voted to trigger art 50, neither is really up to much (though on immigration, McGovern is right).

Opposing invoking A50 would have been a disaster for Labour electorally, its exactly what May was praying for.

Corbyn held the party together over this - even if only barely - with no little skill.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:34 pm

Assessment from an illegitimate source is worthless as reputable information

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:36 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:People like me need reminding that not everybody in the "Progress" wing of the party is the same.

McGovern eviscerating Kinnock Jr on Twitter last night was an excellent demonstration.
Both of them voted to trigger art 50, neither is really up to much (though on immigration, McGovern is right).
Opposing invoking A50 would have been a disaster for Labour electorally, its exactly what May was praying for.

Corbyn held the party together over this - even if only barely - with no little skill.

Very likely, AK
I trust your judgement

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:39 pm

PorFavor wrote:Damien Green on Jeremy Corbyn's speech -
Labour say they are ready for power but everything we’ve seen this week suggests they’re not fit to govern – and it’s ordinary working people who would end up footing the bill. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Who does he think is footing the bill now, then?

Green is a Tory MP responsible for over seven years of Tory policy making regular people pay for Tory choices. He's unlikely to admit he's projecting.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:43 pm

RobertSnozers wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
RobertSnozers wrote:
If that is not saying that Sanders' politics are AS BAD as those of Trump, I
No.

He says that populism of the left and right don't offer solutions. He is right. He says he admires Sanders. Nowhere does he say that about Trump.
You can come to that reading if you ignore two thirds of the words and all of the context. I find it hard to believe your grasp of comprehension is so poor.

SpinningHugo wrote:Give me the dull Centrist Dads.
The problem with the centrist dads isn't that they are dull. It's that they are obnoxious, arrogant, sneering, dismissive, excluding and that they don't offer any solutions at all other than that people like them be allowed to continue running the show.

But they are dull, yes.

Great post

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:57 pm

@cja don't irregular people count.(being one)

Joke

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 27 Sep, 2017 3:58 pm

Its the staggering and unjustified sense of entitlement that gets me - "put us in charge because WE KNOW BEST and don't ask any impertinent questions".

Mind blowing.