Wednesday 4th October 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:20 am

Morning.
Up early in eager anticipation of our beloved serene highness's speech later today.

Though wearing protective eye wear.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... es-aged-93" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Arthur Janov, psychologist behind 'primal scream' therapy, dies aged 93

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:21 am

And helmet.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:44 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... ce-for-all" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Speech
A free, open, secure cyberspace for al

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:28 am

Morning A and All

Is anyone else suspicious of Boris's "gaffe" about clearing the dead bodies away.

There was a danger that May might steal the limelight from him today, but that seems unlikely now. The story becomes will she or won't she sack him. And what has he to lose either way?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:11 am

https://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/tory-p ... 57.article" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory plan to sideline solicitors could stretch new housing court to 'breaking point'

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:25 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... lls-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Affordable homes in south-east England should cost £250,000 or less, says study

Post by **adam** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:28 am

From Tubby from last night on the Mason idea of what the government might be saying to MI6 given that what they're saying in public to business,

He thought he was reliving '68 the other day, now he thinks it's A Very British Coup?

Oversight is better than it was in those days.

Your confidence in this is greater than mine. There is all but no doubt that there were plans within the security community in the 70s to bring the government down. I still think that the most likely thing to happen if things are looking ropey for the government in early '22 is that Corbyn will fall under a bus.

Even if the whole thing is just metaphor, it's a good metaphor. We are in 'enemy within' territory here.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:37 am

Not only does he get away with saying it in the first place, he gets away with shit like this:

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I can never, ever forgive Have I Got News For You for what it did for the public perception of this individual.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:42 am

Davis called the civil servants helping him "patriots" yesterday.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:50 am

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/r ... m-11282917" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rats, cockroaches and mould - the squalid slum-like conditions of the working poor under the Tories

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:40 am

Re Paul's point

"May would unveil measures in her speech to “make it easier for councils to build new houses for rent”. But we have not had any detail yet of what is being proposed, so at this point it is hard to assess how transformative this will be.

But, as is customary when May is about to give a speech, she has found herself overshadowed by Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary."

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:53 am

NonOxCol wrote:Not only does he get away with saying it in the first place, he gets away with shit like this:

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I can never, ever forgive Have I Got News For You for what it did for the public perception of this individual.

This morning's Barclaygraph front page - it used to be a newspaper.

Worthy of Neues Deutschland at its most servile.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 10:16 am

Good morfternoon.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 10:17 am

adam wrote:From Tubby from last night on the Mason idea of what the government might be saying to MI6 given that what they're saying in public to business,

He thought he was reliving '68 the other day, now he thinks it's A Very British Coup?

Oversight is better than it was in those days.
Your confidence in this is greater than mine. There is all but no doubt that there were plans within the security community in the 70s to bring the government down. I still think that the most likely thing to happen if things are looking ropey for the government in early '22 is that Corbyn will fall under a bus.

Even if the whole thing is just metaphor, it's a good metaphor. We are in 'enemy within' territory here.

I think the most unlikely thing about your theory is that the govt will last till '22.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 10:18 am

HindleA wrote:Re Paul's point

"May would unveil measures in her speech to “make it easier for councils to build new houses for rent”. But we have not had any detail yet of what is being proposed, so at this point it is hard to assess how transformative this will be.

But, as is customary when May is about to give a speech, she has found herself overshadowed by Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary."

Are people, finally, cottoning on to this?

Post by **adam** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 10:22 am

gilsey wrote:I think the most unlikely thing about your theory is that the govt will last till '22.

They have a secure working majority, the DUP despise Corbyn and MacDonnell and will go a long way to avoid them making it to government, Tory MPs will not open the door to a Labour government however much they are unhappy with what their own party is doing.

I think we could have a lot of fairly precarious votes but I just don't believe, when push comes to shove, that backbench tories will put country before party and risk an election.

If May goes in '19 (and she looks like somebody that could go tomorrow but it seems reasonably likely that the latest she will go is after the leave date) and somebody else comes in and gets a poll bounce there is a chance they will cut and run but I can't see it happening otherwise.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 10:48 am

When is a council house not a council house? Unless all the Conservative crap which hems in social housing and its users is abolished, I'm unmoved by any promises (or hints) which may be made by Theresa May today.

Edited to make sense.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 10:52 am

adam wrote:
gilsey wrote:I think the most unlikely thing about your theory is that the govt will last till '22.
They have a secure working majority, the DUP despise Corbyn and MacDonnell and will go a long way to avoid them making it to government, Tory MPs will not open the door to a Labour government however much they are unhappy with what their own party is doing.

I think we could have a lot of fairly precarious votes but I just don't believe, when push comes to shove, that backbench tories will put country before party and risk an election.

If May goes in '19 (and she looks like somebody that could go tomorrow but it seems reasonably likely that the latest she will go is after the leave date) and somebody else comes in and gets a poll bounce there is a chance they will cut and run but I can't see it happening otherwise.

I understand that reasoning but I can't believe there won't be a crisis of some kind before then, given how appallingly badly they're managing everything.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 10:53 am

PorFavor wrote:When is a council house not a council house? Unless all the Conservative crap which hems in social housing and its users is abolished, I'm unmoved by any promises (or hints) which may be made by Theresa May today.

Edited to make sense.

I've seen a rumour that the plan is for time-limited council houses to be sold on after 10-15 years with RTB.

Post by **adam** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 11:05 am

gilsey wrote:
adam wrote:
gilsey wrote:I think the most unlikely thing about your theory is that the govt will last till '22.
They have a secure working majority, the DUP despise Corbyn and MacDonnell and will go a long way to avoid them making it to government, Tory MPs will not open the door to a Labour government however much they are unhappy with what their own party is doing.

I think we could have a lot of fairly precarious votes but I just don't believe, when push comes to shove, that backbench tories will put country before party and risk an election.

If May goes in '19 (and she looks like somebody that could go tomorrow but it seems reasonably likely that the latest she will go is after the leave date) and somebody else comes in and gets a poll bounce there is a chance they will cut and run but I can't see it happening otherwise.
I understand that reasoning but I can't believe there won't be a crisis of some kind before then, given how appallingly badly they're managing everything.

I can't argue with that. I say this purely hypothetically, obviously, but statistically you would expect to see more by-elections coming up in conservative seats this parliament, partly because there are more of them than anyone else but also because for lord knows what reason by elections have been dominated by labour seats - 14/20 in 2010-15 (and only 4/20 were tories) and 7/10 in 2015-17. They dominated from 1997 to 2010 as well but there were a lot more of them then.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 11:13 am

adam wrote:
gilsey wrote:I think the most unlikely thing about your theory is that the govt will last till '22.
They have a secure working majority, the DUP despise Corbyn and MacDonnell and will go a long way to avoid them making it to government, Tory MPs will not open the door to a Labour government however much they are unhappy with what their own party is doing.

I think we could have a lot of fairly precarious votes but I just don't believe, when push comes to shove, that backbench tories will put country before party and risk an election.

If May goes in '19 (and she looks like somebody that could go tomorrow but it seems reasonably likely that the latest she will go is after the leave date) and somebody else comes in and gets a poll bounce there is a chance they will cut and run but I can't see it happening otherwise.

Given where they are, it would be very surprising if they didn't carry on until 2022.

Under a different leader Labour might have been able to peel away the DUP, but for obvious reasons not under Corbyn.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 11:35 am

From Politics Live, things we've learnt from the tory conference.

At the time of the referendum it was a coalition, with members predominantly but not overwhelmingly pro-Brexit and the leadership predominantly but not overwhelmingly against. Now it looks like an enthusiastic pro-Brexit party. In the hall only Brexit really seems to get them going and the most popular fringe meetings have been those addressed by hardcore Brexiteers. MPs say that pro-remain members have stayed away, and that some are leaving the party altogether.

They don't seem to be going to the LDs though.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:04 pm

Re the damage done by Johnson to this country, in the eyes of those inferior foreign types:

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Post by **adam** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:15 pm

It is still, somehow, astonishing how little May has to say about anything that isn't nonsense.

Good comment BTL at the graun too - taking 4m people out of tax isn't true - around 4m fewer people are paying income tax - the fairest form of taxation - but are instead paying more VAT and duty and losing services they rely on.

Post by **adam** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:19 pm

May claiming the NHS as a tory triumph because they've been in power for more of its life than anyone else. Possibly even better than claiming credit for the Hillsborough enquiry.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:24 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
adam wrote:
gilsey wrote:I think the most unlikely thing about your theory is that the govt will last till '22.
They have a secure working majority, the DUP despise Corbyn and MacDonnell and will go a long way to avoid them making it to government, Tory MPs will not open the door to a Labour government however much they are unhappy with what their own party is doing.

I think we could have a lot of fairly precarious votes but I just don't believe, when push comes to shove, that backbench tories will put country before party and risk an election.

If May goes in '19 (and she looks like somebody that could go tomorrow but it seems reasonably likely that the latest she will go is after the leave date) and somebody else comes in and gets a poll bounce there is a chance they will cut and run but I can't see it happening otherwise.
Given where they are, it would be very surprising if they didn't carry on until 2022.

Under a different leader Labour might have been able to peel away the DUP, but for obvious reasons not under Corbyn.

I would be very surprised if even a Corbyn-led Labour weren't chatting to the DUP in private.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:26 pm

[youtube]Hs_wcQ0ywqU[/youtube]

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:31 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
I would be very surprised if even a Corbyn-led Labour weren't chatting to the DUP in private.

I would be extremely surprised. They won't have anything to do with Corbyn.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:39 pm

Energy price caps (as per Tory manifesto).

Dumb.

£2bn on social housing.

Tiny.

Extend help to buy.

Dumb.

They're dead on their feet.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:45 pm

It's not the cough that carries you off
It's the coffin they carry you off in.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:51 pm

PorFavor wrote:It's not the cough that carries you off
It's the coffin they carry you off in.

She is doomed.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:53 pm

You think you're inured to hypocrisy in politics, but she can still take your breath away:

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:53 pm

"F" literally off,classic.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:55 pm

Well done,Lenny

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:56 pm

That was awful, and almost sympathy-inducing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 12:59 pm

Mick Fleetwood was unavailable

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 1:04 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
I would be very surprised if even a Corbyn-led Labour weren't chatting to the DUP in private.
I would be extremely surprised. They won't have anything to do with Corbyn.

That is the conventional wisdom, yes. It doesn't have a terribly reliable record currently, though.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 1:05 pm

Personally glad about opt out system,realise views differ.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 1:13 pm

You can be a living donor,by the way.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 1:19 pm

Annual Christmas Boots/RNIB Multi CD Gift Guide arrives.Last year's started off well but lost its way melodically after about the fourth hour.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 1:19 pm

Sky News commenting on the speed at which Ministers have scuttled (my word) out of the Conference venue.

Edited - typo

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 1:27 pm

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Ever reliable.

Post by **adam** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 1:54 pm

Suggestions that this was so bad it's made her cabinet rally around her. John O'Farrell said that he learned after Thatcher's resignation that some of the spitting image stuff they did during the campaign made some wavering tory MPs stick with her...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 2:13 pm

Oh dear, the BBC's Vicki Young rather put her foot in it on Twitter earlier.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 2:15 pm

At least the f fell out of for and not the o out of country. Small mercies.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:02 pm

She was brutal about Labour, even more brutal about the Tories

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The weakest bunch of front bench politicians for both parties in living memory. Possibly ever.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:03 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
That is the conventional wisdom, yes. It doesn't have a terribly reliable record currently, though.

You think the DUP are over the whole IRA thing?

I don't.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:03 pm

Just like you, she will never ever admit she was wrong about Corbyn and Labour more generally. No wonder you like her

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:11 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone
I've just started looking over the news
Haven't read the thread yet either

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:13 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

Ever reliable.

'Why Theresa May made redundant is bad news for Ed Miliband'