Wednesday 4th October 2017

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:18 pm

HindleA wrote:Davis called the civil servants helping him "patriots" yesterday.

They call him something else

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:18 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Just like you, she will never ever admit she was wrong about Corbyn and Labour more generally. No wonder you like her

If you want me to point to the dozens of posts on here where I said my objection to Corbyn was not that he would not win, I can.

I wasn't 'wrong' about him. I don't want an unreconstructed member of the Campaign Group anywhere near government. Which is why I resigned and didn't vote Labour for the first time sine 2005. I don't regret that for a moment. I didn't quit because I thought he would lose, I quit because I profoundly disagree with him.

I think you're confusing me with people like the appalling Watson, whose only reason for opposing Corbyn seems to have been whether he would win. The Labour 'moderates' who have stuck around look to me to be the most shameless bunch. That they then vote to trigger art 50, and then have the gall to moan about Brexit, revolts me.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:23 pm

adam wrote:
gilsey wrote:I think the most unlikely thing about your theory is that the govt will last till '22.
They have a secure working majority, the DUP despise Corbyn and MacDonnell and will go a long way to avoid them making it to government, Tory MPs will not open the door to a Labour government however much they are unhappy with what their own party is doing.

I think we could have a lot of fairly precarious votes but I just don't believe, when push comes to shove, that backbench tories will put country before party and risk an election.

If May goes in '19 (and she looks like somebody that could go tomorrow but it seems reasonably likely that the latest she will go is after the leave date) and somebody else comes in and gets a poll bounce there is a chance they will cut and run but I can't see it happening otherwise.

(cJA emphasis)
They might. It's not impossible some Tory MPs declare they're unable to continue in government.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:38 pm

“Go Home” vans can go home – the May Doctrine on immigration is dead
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... ation-dead" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rudd pledged to “take decisions based on comprehensive new evidence”, following a series of expert reports she has commissioned from the Migration Advisory Committee. Again, to the uninitiated this may sound innocuous. But immigration policy under May has consistently rejected expert evidence – to the extent that the Home Office allegedly suppressed nine reports showing immigration did not drive down wages. May had expounded an ideological insistence that there is only so much immigration a society can take – and that the UK was far beyond it. The implication of Rudd’s statement is that migration policy will be driven by evidence, not ideology. Implicitly, Rudd has sidelined another totem of the May Doctrine.

I'd like to think this is right. Of course, even if it is, it could be sidelined for something worse.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:48 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
I would be very surprised if even a Corbyn-led Labour weren't chatting to the DUP in private.
I would be extremely surprised. They won't have anything to do with Corbyn.
That is the conventional wisdom, yes. It doesn't have a terribly reliable record currently, though.

I don't want Labour talking to the DUP. I think it's positive for Labour at the moment that the DUP goons hate them.

Corbyn and McDonnell leading a UK government though- that is likely a big problem for Northern Ireland.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:51 pm

PorFavor wrote:When is a council house not a council house? Unless all the Conservative crap which hems in social housing and its users is abolished, I'm unmoved by any promises (or hints) which may be made by Theresa May today.
Edited to make sense.

A free market should have alternative housing products. An alternative to current housing choices is genuinely affordable housing in all regions, securely tenured, well-built, functional, comfortable, safe, permanent, available to all, homes rented from communities administered by democratically accountable housing coordinators.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 3:57 pm

PorFavor wrote:It's not the cough that carries you off
It's the coffin they carry you off in.

choking on her words

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 4:34 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... out-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 4:58 pm

Afternoon all.

Back from Royal London where the surgeon is pleased with 'er indoors' progress and doesn't need to see her again. Now for the chemo at some stage - appointment next week to find out how soon that'll be.

The Health Secretary has praised the prime minister for continuing with her conference speech, despite having a really bad cough and almost losing her voice.

Jeremy Hunt, Conservative MP for Surrey South West, told the World at One that he hoped the public would now see Theresa May's "tremendous sense of duty" which she portrayed by continuing with her speech.

He added "to have a cough and cold is one thing, but to do it with the eyes of the nation on you, that was something else".

Eh?

it's a party conference speech not rallying the troops during war time!

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 5:32 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
That is the conventional wisdom, yes. It doesn't have a terribly reliable record currently, though.

You think the DUP are over the whole IRA thing?

I don't.

Of course not, I'm not daft. But events may yet make that seem less important.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 5:48 pm

Please give my love to Mrs RogerOThornhill

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 5:51 pm

Letters falling off the Tory conference backdrop...

Post by **refitman** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 5:53 pm

What's the "British Dream"? I hope it's nothing like the American one, 'cause that's cobblers.

Post by **refitman** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:00 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Afternoon all.

Back from Royal London where the surgeon is pleased with 'er indoors' progress and doesn't need to see her again. Now for the chemo at some stage - appointment next week to find out how soon that'll be.

Glad there's some good news.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:02 pm

Anna Soubry in "throws toys out of pram after some decent questioning" non-shocker.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:02 pm

refitman wrote:What's the "British Dream"? I hope it's nothing like the American one, 'cause that's cobblers.

It is a Michael Howard line.

Was as successful then as now.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:05 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
That is the conventional wisdom, yes. It doesn't have a terribly reliable record currently, though.

You think the DUP are over the whole IRA thing?

I don't.
Of course not, I'm not daft. But events may yet make that seem less important.

I think that is a very mainland UK perspective. The DUP aren't going to deal with a party with Corbyn and McDonnell leading it. Ever.

“It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA."

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:08 pm

And Nick Gibb becomes more ludicrous as time goes on...

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... -a-teacher

The minister also described teacher workload as a “severe problem”, and said it was “invariably” driven by ideology from education academics.

As examples of such ideas, he cited “dialogic marking, a skills-based curriculum, a data-driven and vastly over-complicated assessment system and an ideological hostility to textbooks”.

Someone pointed out that if they didn't keep changing the curriculum, then textbooks wouldn't become out of date so quickly...plus the fact that they aren't cheap and schools simply can't afford them.

Edit - and that increased workload might be more the fault of the DfE...

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:11 pm

Good news Roger, hope all continues well

I see we are back onto the IRA again........yawn

Suppose it takes away the attention from the car crash appalling show from the Tory so-called PM

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:16 pm

@RogerOThornhill

Good news. Thanks for the update. Best wishes to Mrs Dr.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:18 pm

You know I'm fond of Robin Lustig's blog

http://lustigletter.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... a-may.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

oh-theresa-may

She may, as she likes to claim, not be a quitter -- but that doesn't mean she won't soon be gone.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:24 pm

Sounds like Mair has been brilliant on PM

To Amber Rudd: “Do you think people want Bernard Manning as Foreign Secretary?”

What's she going to do next? grow a beard and start an allotment?

to Amber Rudd. "When does the remit of the EU referendum run out?"

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:24 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
SpinningHugo wrote:
You think the DUP are over the whole IRA thing?

I don't.
Of course not, I'm not daft. But events may yet make that seem less important.
I think that is a very mainland UK perspective. The DUP aren't going to deal with a party with Corbyn and McDonnell leading it. Ever.

“It's about time we started honouring those people involved in the armed struggle. It was the bombs and bullets and sacrifice made by the likes of Bobby Sands that brought Britain to the negotiating table. The peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA."

Hasn't he (McDonnell) apologised for those comments and disowned them?

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:35 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:And Nick Gibb becomes more ludicrous as time goes on...

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... -a-teacher

The minister also described teacher workload as a “severe problem”, and said it was “invariably” driven by ideology from education academics.

As examples of such ideas, he cited “dialogic marking, a skills-based curriculum, a data-driven and vastly over-complicated assessment system and an ideological hostility to textbooks”.
Someone pointed out that if they didn't keep changing the curriculum, then textbooks wouldn't become out of date so quickly...plus the fact that they aren't cheap and schools simply can't afford them.

Edit - and that increased workload might be more the fault of the DfE...

It's their national curriculum! Where are these people doing silly overcomplicated teacher-zapping curriculums? Must be in academies and free schools.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:35 pm

don't encourage him AK - the IRA nonsense is one of his famous 'look there's a squirrel' subjects

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:38 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: Hasn't he (McDonnell) apologised for those comments and disowned them?

He has, and the DUP, with their balaclava mates, should be in no position to call him out.

It doesn't really work like that though, does it? These lunatics have a clear run among Unionist parties now.

But agree with HSOM. That's one for another day.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:40 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:don't encourage him AK - the IRA nonsense is one of his famous 'look there's a squirrel' subjects

Satisfyingly, for me, Hugo must live in a world of ever shrinking squirrels, which must be a quite terrifying prospect.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:47 pm

EU Sues Ireland Over Apple Billions as Tax Tensions Flare Up
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-flare-up" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 6:59 pm

from the live blog

Conservative MP, George Freeman:
"There should be some very serious questions, that could have been a terrorist.
My understanding is he’s a comedian, he’s often used by the BBC, and questions will be asked about how he was allowed to get that close."

close to the BBC?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:01 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote: Hasn't he (McDonnell) apologised for those comments and disowned them?

Yes. He also ratheer implausibly has claimed he said it to further the peace process, a monstrous falsehood.

McDonnell and Corbyn have had to disown a great deal. Your views about their sincerity depend on how optimistic you are.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:05 pm

It's not against the law to hand the PM a notice of termination, is it?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:11 pm

"Even bits of the set were trying to escape."

- Marina Hyde

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:18 pm

George Eaton‏Verified account @georgeeaton 3h3 hours ago
More
Theresa May's speech: Ed Miliband's policies and Iain Duncan Smith's voice.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:20 pm

HannahJane Parkinson‏Verified account @ladyhaja
Can I just point out that Theresa May is wearing a bracelet of Frida Kahlo, a member of the Communist party who LITERALLY DATED TROTSKY
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

: DLTCzOGW4AAvsrg.jpg (11.27 KiB) Viewed 15694 times

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:26 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:EU Sues Ireland Over Apple Billions as Tax Tensions Flare Up
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... s-flare-up" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tensions overlapping other challenges creating a perfect storm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:47 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/2-bi ... ocial-rent" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Press release
£2 billion boost for "affordable"housing and long term deal for social rent

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:49 pm

"...long term deal for social rent..."

What's that mean

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:52 pm

freak lightening strikes

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:56 pm

citizenJA wrote:freak lightening strikes

What - real ones where you are?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 7:58 pm

" increases to social housing rents will be limited to the Consumer Price Index (CPI) plus 1% for 5 years from 2020. This will give social tenants, councils and housing associations the security and certainty they need."

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:15 pm

No lightening where I am, no
It came to mind while I was mulling over the Tory party conference
It's no good though, lightening strike is genuinely something no one has control over
Tories have cultivated catastrophe

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:17 pm

Thank you, HindleA

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:43 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b096gjrb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

From about 21 minutes.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 8:54 pm

Unionists kick of as EU Parliament votes for special status for Northern Ireland.

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfa ... s-13712680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:00 pm

The F and the E fell off ?
- Fe , the symbol for iron.

Thatcher herself must be spitting from hell at poor Treesah.
Priceless.

- Distanced

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:07 pm

PF,it fell under your bed.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:12 pm

FFS now she has.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:15 pm

As you were,emergency gin stock.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:17 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Unionists kick of as EU Parliament votes for special status for Northern Ireland.

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfa ... s-13712680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What a total **** up this all is.
Beyond measure.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Wed 04 Oct, 2017 9:25 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Unionists kick of as EU Parliament votes for special status for Northern Ireland.

http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfa ... s-13712680" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What a total **** up this all is.
Beyond measure.

Europe are offering up the solutions and all we hear from the UK side - whether Tory or their Irish pals - is (to paraphrase Dr Paisley), NO, NO, NO, NO!

The Irish border is simple for the EU:

Option 1: UK accepts Single Market and Customs Union as now (Schengen seems to be not the top priority for the EU)
Option 2: Special status for NI and the border at the British border

Why should theykeep looking at options for a problem they didn't cause