Saturday 7th & Sunday 8th October 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 3:17 am

Morning

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... refugee-mp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

New Zealand election: full results give Labour boost and nation its first refugee MP
Negotiations begin in earnest after ‘special votes’ tally sees National party lose two seats and Labour and the Greens each gain one

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 3:52 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41534552" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory rebels should 'put up, or shut up' - Ruth Davidson

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 3:58 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rotections" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jeff Sessions issues directive undercutting LGBT protections

A claim of a violation of religious freedom will now be enough to override many anti-discrimination protections for LGBT people, women and others.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 4:08 am

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... rdier-jets" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

US escalates trade dispute with UK and Canada over Bombardier
Plans for further 80% duty on export of aircraft built by company that employs more than 4,000 people in Belfast

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 7:58 am

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/bre ... 86836.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why referendums – like with Brexit, Kurdistan and Catalonia – are always doomed to fail
Referendums make public opinion easy to manipulate because what voters are being asked to assent to is most often wishful thinking and what they are opposing is a rag-bag of unrelated grievances

Quite.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 8:05 am

From the moment the polls closed on 23 June 2016, British society has been deeply divided, probably more so than at any time since the 17th-century civil war 375 years ago. “It really is like a civil war without the gunfire,” said one commentator to me last week, speaking of the depth, rancour and lasting nature of these divisions.

...

The British experience of referendums is not unique and has parallels elsewhere. Experience shows that referendums are always used by the winning side to pretend that their majority, however slim and however low the turnout, represents the undivided national will. In fact, the 52 to 48 per cent Brexit vote reflected exactly that: a country split down the middle.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 8:09 am

Supporters of Brexit, Krexit and Crexit promise short-term dislocation in return for their countries achieving real independence and long term prosperity.

In fact, Britons, Kurds and Catalans are more like Edward Lear’s Jumblies, who famously went to sea in a sieve despite warnings that they would all be drowned, to which the Jumbles replied: “Our Sieve ain’t big / But we don’t care a button, we don’t care a fig / In a sieve we’ll go to sea!”

Finally a phrase that resonates:

Brexit means going to sea in a sieve.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 9:16 am

https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... lures.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The OBR, productivity and policy failures

Mainly Macro

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 9:24 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 9:33 am

Welcome the f back.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 9:35 am

Cool rabbit onesies you are wearing.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:08 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... chancellor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Britain’s productivity crisis matters. Don’t expect Philip Hammond to mention it

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:19 am

Thanks. You don't think the ears are too much?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:34 am

No just right,very similar to a design for May I am working on in an upcoming speech.A rabbit out a hat,theme.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:35 am

Or in headlights

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:36 am

Was going with Bugs Bunny but there might be legal issues.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:39 am

Lions sleep most of the time.I think it was over the top to make a song about a particular night.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:42 am

HindleA wrote:Lions sleep most of the time.I think it was over the top to make a song about a particular night.

Awimbawe?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:42 am

This is the 1000th Daily Politics thread on this site, well done everybody!

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:45 am

[youtube]1N4t51IVQ5M[/youtube]

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:56 am

Ee-e-e-um-um-a-weh

apparently

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 10:57 am

Have got an excellent disco classic lined up to celebrate our 1000th thread.
I expect to see evidence of everyone dancing.

And that includes you Anatoly.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 11:00 am

https://dpac.uk.net/2017/10/daylight-ro ... al-credit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re SDA removal under UC.Just one of the targeted nasties on design.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 11:21 am

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... ter-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dispute resolution after Brexit

Institute for Government

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 11:21 am

HindleA wrote:https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... lures.html

The OBR, productivity and policy failures

Mainly Macro

Interested in his choice of words in his conclusion

A much more plausible story is that we are seeing what happens when most firms lose confidence in the ability of policymakers to manage the economy.

In the case of this govt and the coalition, perhaps it's their willingness to manage the economy that's in question first. Cutting public spending is not managing the economy and if there was ever any doubt about that the years since 2010 should have eliminated it.

This bit should be compulsory reading for MPs and the MSM.

The experience of the 50 years before the GFC suggested that you could hit the economy with pretty large hammers, but it would eventually bounce back. However that may have been contingent on a belief by firms that if policymakers were wielding the hammer (using high interest rates for example) they would take it away fairly soon, and replace it by stimulus. That belief was shattered in the UK by the GFC and austerity, where policymakers decided to keep using the hammer. What little confidence remained was destroyed by Brexit.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 11:36 am

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... l-johnson/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tuesday 10 October in Committee Room 1, Palace of Westminster

At 3.35pm.

Former secretary of state Lord Adonis and former minster Lord Willets will face questions from the Economic Affairs Committee. Joined by Paul Johnson, the Director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies they give evidence to the Committee’s new inquiry into the economics of higher, further and technical education.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 11:36 am

I'm starting to actively hope for it all to fall apart - quickly. The sooner it all falls apart, the sooner we might be able to start putting it all together again. Or will the "Brexiters" simply turn very nasty? That's the frightening (and 40\60) chance to take into account.

Edited to add -
I think I mean 60\40

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 11:40 am

Bloody hell I thought I chain smoked,PF's got them literally lined up with numbers on them.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 11:52 am

PorFavor wrote:I'm starting to actively hope for it all to fall apart - quickly. The sooner it all falls apart, the sooner we might be able to start putting it all together again. Or will the "Brexiters" simply turn very nasty? That's the frightening (and 40\60 chance) to take into account.

Edited to add -
I think I mean 60\40

Some of them will, the question is will they be few enough to be containable? *Probably* yes, but you can see why so many are cautious.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:09 pm

I have to own up - I edited my post a second time to move a bracket.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm starting to actively hope for it all to fall apart - quickly. The sooner it all falls apart, the sooner we might be able to start putting it all together again. Or will the "Brexiters" simply turn very nasty? That's the frightening (and 40\60 chance) to take into account.

Edited to add -
I think I mean 60\40
Some of them will, the question is will they be few enough to be containable? *Probably* yes, but you can see why so many are cautious.

The deeper in we get, the harder it gets to turn back. The time to face down the Eurosceptics was when Cameron resigned and a new leader elected. A pause then was possible. Arguments for a detailed white paper were compelling. An election before the triggering of article 50 could have provided a mandate for a different direction. As we know, Theresa May went the other way. Far from taking a cautious, pragmatic approach she catapulted us into full-on hard Brexit barely pausing to catch her breath. As such she's placed the Tory Europhiles in an almost impossible position. A Brexit leaning Tory voter base is now expecting the full control, all out, Brexit May promised. Doing the right thing for the economy and the country is now electoral suicide for the Tory party. As such I'm not convinced it all falling apart will be the beginning of putting anything back together. It could well be the beginning of a long drawn out descent into an even bigger hole.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:27 pm

Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
PorFavor wrote:I'm starting to actively hope for it all to fall apart - quickly. The sooner it all falls apart, the sooner we might be able to start putting it all together again. Or will the "Brexiters" simply turn very nasty? That's the frightening (and 40\60 chance) to take into account.

Edited to add -
I think I mean 60\40
Some of them will, the question is will they be few enough to be containable? *Probably* yes, but you can see why so many are cautious.
The deeper in we get, the harder it gets to turn back. The time to face down the Eurosceptics was when Cameron resigned and a new leader elected. A pause then was possible. Arguments for a detailed white paper were compelling. An election before the triggering of article 50 could have provided a mandate for a different direction. As we know, Theresa May went the other way. Far from taking a cautious, pragmatic approach she catapulted us into full-on hard Brexit barely pausing to catch her breath. As such she's placed the Tory Europhiles in an almost impossible position. A Brexit leaning Tory voter base is now expecting the full control, all out, Brexit May promised. Doing the right thing for the economy and the country is now electoral suicide for the Tory party. As such I'm not convinced it all falling apart will be the beginning of putting anything back together. It could well be the beginning of a long drawn out descent into an even bigger hole.

Yes - I fail to see what would have been so wrong about saying OK, we've got this 'decision' now we look into what the options are and we'll ask again. The whole thing has been ludicrous from the start, the tiniest decision in the majority of work places requiring much more thinking than this has had. It was the effort to look like it was all in hand from the start (when there was no reason why it should be) that has totally 'cked things up.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:28 pm

PorFavor wrote:I have to own up - I edited my post a second time to move a bracket.

You're a badass mother PF.
And no mistake.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:30 pm

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:31 pm

Boris Johnson was unwise to quote Kipling. But he wasn’t praising empire (Guardian)

The foreign secretary was caught on camera in Myanmar being a klutz again. But despite the furore, the poem Mandalay wasn’t an argument for colonialism (Guardian)

The second quote may well be true.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... olonialism

Edited to make link work

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:34 pm

See above

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:35 pm

HindleA wrote:---
Dispute resolution after Brexit
---

Trial by ordeal

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:36 pm

Good-a ternoon, everyon

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:39 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
The deeper in we get, the harder it gets to turn back. The time to face down the Eurosceptics was when Cameron resigned and a new leader elected. A pause then was possible. Arguments for a detailed white paper were compelling. An election before the triggering of article 50 could have provided a mandate for a different direction. As we know, Theresa May went the other way. Far from taking a cautious, pragmatic approach she catapulted us into full-on hard Brexit barely pausing to catch her breath. As such she's placed the Tory Europhiles in an almost impossible position. A Brexit leaning Tory voter base is now expecting the full control, all out, Brexit May promised. Doing the right thing for the economy and the country is now electoral suicide for the Tory party. As such I'm not convinced it all falling apart will be the beginning of putting anything back together. It could well be the beginning of a long drawn out descent into an even bigger hole.
Yes - I fail to see what would have been so wrong about saying OK, we've got this 'decision' now we look into what the options are and we'll ask again. The whole thing has been ludicrous from the start, the tiniest decision in the majority of work places requiring much more thinking than this has had. It was the effort to look like it was all in hand from the start (when there was no reason why it should be) that has totally 'cked things up.

That decision to plow ahead is 100% on Theresa May. And it really has sent us hurtling down the rabbit hole, unfortunately. I wouldn't be sorry to see her gone, even though a successor could prove more of a challenge to beat for Labour.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:39 pm

Apologies for abandoning yesterday's thread without formal leave

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:52 pm

Disgrace.Is there no end to posters' scandalous behaviour?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:53 pm

Willow904 wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
The deeper in we get, the harder it gets to turn back. The time to face down the Eurosceptics was when Cameron resigned and a new leader elected. A pause then was possible. Arguments for a detailed white paper were compelling. An election before the triggering of article 50 could have provided a mandate for a different direction. As we know, Theresa May went the other way. Far from taking a cautious, pragmatic approach she catapulted us into full-on hard Brexit barely pausing to catch her breath. As such she's placed the Tory Europhiles in an almost impossible position. A Brexit leaning Tory voter base is now expecting the full control, all out, Brexit May promised. Doing the right thing for the economy and the country is now electoral suicide for the Tory party. As such I'm not convinced it all falling apart will be the beginning of putting anything back together. It could well be the beginning of a long drawn out descent into an even bigger hole.
Yes - I fail to see what would have been so wrong about saying OK, we've got this 'decision' now we look into what the options are and we'll ask again. The whole thing has been ludicrous from the start, the tiniest decision in the majority of work places requiring much more thinking than this has had. It was the effort to look like it was all in hand from the start (when there was no reason why it should be) that has totally 'cked things up.
That decision to plow ahead is 100% on Theresa May. And it really has sent us hurtling down the rabbit hole, unfortunately. I wouldn't be sorry to see her gone, even though a successor could prove more of a challenge to beat for Labour.

Agree but in the first instance it was Cameron. Rather than run away/lose interest he should have just said, OK referendum went this way, now we start looking at what it would/could actually entail. How hard would that have been?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:54 pm

HindleA wrote:Disgrace.Is there no end to posters' scandalous behaviour?

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:56 pm

HindleA wrote:Bloody hell I thought I chain smoked,PF's got them literally lined up with numbers on them.

There was a time (in my dim and murky past) when I used to look forward to the next fag, while I was already smoking the current one. (and then light the next from the existing).

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 12:57 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... olonialism

(+htt)

Thanks!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 1:01 pm

HindleA wrote:Disgrace.Is there no end to posters' scandalous behaviour?

Nope

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 1:01 pm

Deleted.

Apologies

Post by **refitman** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 1:05 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:This is the 1000th Daily Politics thread on this site, well done everybody!

I think a big "thank you" is in order to Sky, for starting the original site.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 1:37 pm

As referenced by Paul

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/t ... s-deepens/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tory conference: Care minister hides from fringe as funding crisis deepens

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 07 Oct, 2017 2:57 pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/irel ... -1.3242732" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ireland an afterthought during Brexit campaign when I was Cameron adviser