Monday 9th October 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:50 am

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10 ... nd-jeremy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Only a few Tories have the energy and vision to beat Corbyn. One of them is Michael Gove"
Presumably it's to tempt people over the paywall, but Daily Telegraph articles seem to be headlined a bit like bad video trailer voiceovers. You get a catchy headline, leading to an over the top plot summary, then a request to cough up.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:02 am

Good morfternoon.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:28 am

Good-morning, everyone

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:30 am

https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/half-milli ... its-freeze" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Half a million more people in poverty if Government maintains benefits freeze

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:56 am

tinybgoat wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10 ... nd-jeremy/
"Only a few Tories have the energy and vision to beat Corbyn. One of them is Michael Gove"
Presumably it's to tempt people over the paywall, but Daily Telegraph articles seem to be headlined a bit like bad video trailer voiceovers. You get a catchy headline, leading to an over the top plot summary, then a request to cough up.

I find that the "trailers" do a great job of putting you off, personally. The above is no exception

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 10:19 am

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/th ... ailsignout" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The great bin collection scandal: Desperate Brits pay private waste firms as pick-ups drop to every THREE weeks

We've just gone from one week to two, since the Tories took over from the Libdems on the local council. Since twice as much rubbish needs picking up, so bin lorries need to return to the depot twice as often to empty, I've always struggled to understand just why two weekly collections are more cost effective. Surely it doesn't make much difference?

Anyway, with the new twice weekly collection we now have to use wheelie bins for the first time, with the council going for a super slim bin exactly half the size of the wheelie bins used by neighbouring councils. I fear it's going to be challenging. They take approx two bin bags. I put out at least two a week at the moment. I've only got two small compost bins. I put some guinea pig waste in the rubbish at the moment, but I'll have to put all the guinea pig waste in the compost and put some of my veg peelings in the brown food bin instead, I think. I'm not against reducing waste, but there is a lot that still can't be recycled, such as tissues, plastic wrap, black and brown plastic tubs etc. I don't think anyone in my house if prepared to give up crisps, so I'm just going to have to find a way to squeeze it all in, I guess.

Post by **adam** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 10:39 am

From last night

HindleA wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... betes.html

Girl, 7, with diabetes is banned from school cinema trip because hospital appointment cost her 100% attendance record

(Wail)

I think this is inexcusable. I organise lots of trips and it's always possible to identify students who have no choice at all about being off and to make allowances for them. I understand why schools reward attendance but to do it without accepting that there are people with medical conditions, who have no choice about the timing of regular medical appointments and who by their conditions are more likely to need time off, is just wrong, and is so easy to get right with a little effort.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 11:46 am

http://www.fabians.org.uk/in-control/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A reminder.

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1613906 ... r-disabled" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 11:48 am

adam wrote:From last night

HindleA wrote:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... betes.html

Girl, 7, with diabetes is banned from school cinema trip because hospital appointment cost her 100% attendance record

(Wail)
I think this is inexcusable. I organise lots of trips and it's always possible to identify students who have no choice at all about being off and to make allowances for them. I understand why schools reward attendance but to do it without accepting that there are people with medical conditions, who have no choice about the timing of regular medical appointments and who by their conditions are more likely to need time off, is just wrong, and is so easy to get right with a little effort.

I'm a bit sensitive about this issue for personal reasons. Fortunately, alongside the attendance mufti (a day when children with 100% attendance get to wear their own clothes) my kid's school also has a behaviour mufti, which means ill children can still get a mufti with a reward for something that is actually within their control - good behaviour. My son doesn't like changes in routine, so doesn't like mufti and doesn't wear it even if he has earned one, so for some kids these "rewards" are meaningless and ineffective anyway.

At the end of the day, kids will get ill and miss school sometimes. Is it really not possible for schools to teach children in a way that means a few days off won't cause them to drop marks or fall behind? When MPs start saying things like "just one missed day can lead to a drop in GCSE grade" I'm just thinking, why are we teaching in a way that lets that happen? An education system that can't adjust to time off for illness isn't really fit for purpose, is it? Illness is a part of life, after all.

Good teachers that enthuse and inspire kids and helps them get the most out of school have the most impact on avoidable absence, imo. Punishing kids for illness and appointments they have no control over makes no difference to attendance levels, it just stigmatizes ill health. I agree that the decision of the school above is inexcusable, but suspect the problem is that if they accept the particular girl with the medical appointment could not avoid her absence, they would have to admit the next kid who was off puking their guts up didn't have much choice either or the one with the temperature of 39.5......It's not just these extreme examples that are wrong, the whole system is wrong. A bug went round my kid's school near the beginning of term. Kids who had just one day off have had warning letters about their attendance!

I'm pretty certain this is a central government requirement rather than a school choice, because it really is a waste of time and resources to be so officious over ordinary levels of absence. What is it supposed to achieve? If it changes behaviour at all, it just leads to kids with raging viral illnesses dragging themselves into school and infecting even more people. Which, with things like norovirus and swine flu circulating in the population, isn't especially sensible.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 11:49 am

BAE Systems ‘is cutting over 1,000 UK jobs’

Brexit is not believed to be a factor in the move, Sky News reported, citing sources close to the company
(Independent)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 90176.html

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 12:11 pm

http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1662134 ... tly-with-a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 1:05 pm

What exactly are the "concessions" that the UK has made in the "Brexit" negotiations? (That's a serious question, by the way.)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 1:12 pm

Afternoon all. Two school meetings this morning.

All aboard the ‘Skills Revolution’! (Even you, Mr Gibb)

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/all-aboard-th ... u-mr-gibb/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“The Conservative Party has got a major problem when its own secretary of state for education is on the stage announcing a ‘skills revolution’, but the schools minister won’t let civil servants write the word ‘skills’ in any of his correspondence.”

Making this point while sat alongside a former Tory minister and in front of 150 party members was not exactly comfortable, but it felt important at a fringe event I attended at conference on Sunday. It was important because it’s true.

For three days the same questions were on party member’s lips: Why aren’t we giving children opportunities to do vocational subjects? Why are we killing off the arts, and music, and design & technology? How come the message about apprenticeships is always so negative?

Unfortunately, the most obvious answer is “Nick Gibb”.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 1:34 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... hise-firms" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fall in rail journeys raises questions for train franchise firms

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 1:39 pm

http://www.transportforall.org.uk/about ... l-projects" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

50 organisations demand the DfT to restore vital Access for All rail projects

Can't see the driver only train tendency being anything other than another barrier/worsening situation,myself.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 1:53 pm

HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... hise-firms

Fall in rail journeys raises questions for train franchise firms

Based on local experience, cancellations and poor punctuality seem to be on the increase as well.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 2:26 pm

PorFavor wrote:What exactly are the "concessions" that the UK has made in the "Brexit" negotiations? (That's a serious question, by the way.)

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politic ... 42821.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I have a horrible feeling it's something to with this:

One senior EU official said the prime minister’s speech — which essentially offered to delay Brexit until 2021, cover the EU’s budget hole to 2020 and guarantee EU citizens’ rights directly in UK law — was “wordy and unclear”.

Though it doesn't quite fit your (or surprisingly, the EU's) criteria. Maybe T.May will elaborate.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 2:34 pm

What time is the star turn on, today?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 2:36 pm

Marsha De Cordova new Shadow Minister For the Disabled.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 2:37 pm

I've long been of the opinion that social mobility isn't as simple as "its all down to the school" and so thought this worth sharing.

Social Mobility: An Undeserving Philosophy

https://disidealist.wordpress.com/2017/ ... hilosophy/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Because we can’t all be socially mobile, can we? We can’t all become doctors and lawyers. We can’t all go to university. Just to be clear: I’m not just talking about that small proportion of the population with particular additional needs, who even the most passionate disciple of Ayn Rand would accept cannot be expected to gain straight As at A-Level. I’m talking about children without recognised additional needs too: the 50% who don’t go to university; the one-in-two of our children who are to the left of the halfway point on the Bell Curve of achievement.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 2:45 pm

PorFavor wrote:What time is the star turn on, today?

15:30 (Andrew Sparrow)

Post by **adam** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 3:07 pm

Willow904 wrote:Lots of good things

We've just sent letters home warning about attendance to anybody with an attendance rate of below 96%. At this stage in the year, that means anybody who has had one day off. We might, possibly, show a tiny tiny handful of genuinely difficult parents (who do exist, but we're talking about perhaps 2 or 3 out of 1200) not to try it on about attendance. We have definitely upset, annoyed and confused probably hundreds of parents who are horrified that they're getting a warning from us.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 3:43 pm

Happened to live at RAF Warton transit camp for a few months (BAE systems reference) in the early 70's.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 3:44 pm

Theresa May now appearing at 4.30pm, apparently.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 3:54 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... d-rochdale" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 4:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... hise-firms

Fall in rail journeys raises questions for train franchise firms
Based on local experience, cancellations and poor punctuality seem to be on the increase as well.

Again, this shows the system *working*. The cost/risk of falls in rail journeys is borne by the franchises: not by the taxpayer. Yes some will fail. That is a *good* thing, and shows the market is functioning as it should as some franchises overpay. Lucky us.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 4:17 pm

PorFavor wrote:Theresa May now appearing at 4.30pm, apparently.

Should anything be read into this seeming delay?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 4:43 pm

Is it possible to be both creative and pragmatic? I suppose it is, but it's a strange coupling. And not in the least alliterative.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 4:45 pm

Well, I'm still none the wiser.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 4:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

May says the UK wants a “creative” model for the future.

The government has rejected the idea of a model already in existence.

It does not want Britain to be in the EEA. And it does not want a trade deal like Canada’s either, she says.

She says she wants a deal maintaing free trade and high standards.

It will have to make allowance for when the UK and the EU align, and when they don’t, she says.

May wants the moon on a stick.

And yet May has also completely caved:

In March 2019 neither the UK nor the EU will be ready for the new arrangement.

That is why she wants an implmentation period, she says.

She says the UK will have left the EU. But she is proposing that access to the single market continues for this period, under existing EU rules.

So we are still talking of having our cake and eat it and yet to date the only changes to negotiating positions seems to be us changing ours slowly but surely to exactly what the EU has proposed from the beginning.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 4:55 pm

I should add this is exactly what some people have being saying all along, that it will be the EU's way or the highway. Which makes perfect sense, because there are 27 of them and only 1 of us.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 4:58 pm

Kenneth Clarke refers to the "present" Foreign Secretary.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 5:09 pm

Labour’s Ed Miliband asks how the transition arrangements will differ from being in the single market and the customs union.

May says the UK will leave the single market and customs union in March 2019. But she says she wants to negotiate an agreement that will allow the UK to operate on the same basis during the transition.

Still none the wiser.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 5:16 pm

adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Lots of good things
We've just sent letters home warning about attendance to anybody with an attendance rate of below 96%. At this stage in the year, that means anybody who has had one day off. We might, possibly, show a tiny tiny handful of genuinely difficult parents (who do exist, but we're talking about perhaps 2 or 3 out of 1200) not to try it on about attendance. We have definitely upset, annoyed and confused probably hundreds of parents who are horrified that they're getting a warning from us.

Except 1 day off out of 190 is surely something like 99.5% attendance.

Just as all schools can't be "above average". It's a statistical impossibility.

The lack of logical application of maths is just one of many things about the Tory approach to education that really winds me up.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 5:27 pm

Robert Peston‏Verified account @Peston 13m13 minutes ago
More
Prime minister really does not want to say if she has had legal advice about whether Article 50 notification could be revoked

i.e. yes she has...

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 5:42 pm

So the speculation this morning that she would announce a walkout was wrong then? Surprise

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 6:24 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ade-policy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... se-regimes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 6:36 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41553887" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 6:39 pm

Trade Fox_.image now deleted
"We want to build a future trade policy that delivers benefits for the UK’s economy and for businesses, workers and consumers alike. This paper is the first exciting step and sets out the principles behind an approach which will help British businesses to make the most of trade opportunities, contribute to a growing economy and create prosperity for communities up and down the UK."

The role of trade in an economy that works for everyone
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... everyone-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not reassured

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:13 pm

David Cameron takes job with US electronic payments firm

I've deleted the US shopping websites

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:28 pm

https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... essibility" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:38 pm

HindleA wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41553887

The government told Newsnight today that it remains committed to trying to replicate all 40, but officials with knowledge of progress have told Newsnight that they do not expect to be able to do so. The department is advising ministers to focus their fire on four deals. It is not clear which these are.

Maybe It's a bit like 'Field of Dreams', build it & they will come.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:43 pm

http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/10 ... l-strategy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's far better to have a cynical prime minister than a stupid one, although one should not rule out the possibility that we've been landed with both.

Sadly true.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:49 pm

In the Commons, Ms May was asked to set out the costs to Britain of leaving the EU with a deal – and of leaving without one, if the talks collapse. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 91376.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“It’s not possible to answer that question,” she told Labour MP Catherine West.

“We are negotiating a deal. We will not have negotiated that deal until, I suspect, close to the end of that period that’s been set aside for it.

“At that point, we will be able to see what the benefits of that deal will be for the British economy.”

Good job the whole thing's not a suicidal waste of time.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 7:53 pm

Is this a repeat of the old London Bridge misunderstanding?

David Cameron takes job with US electronic payments firm

First Data says its new recruit is one of the most prominent global influencers of the early 21st century
(Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... first-data

Tizme · Post by **Tizme** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:01 pm

Willow904 wrote:
adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:Lots of good things
We've just sent letters home warning about attendance to anybody with an attendance rate of below 96%. At this stage in the year, that means anybody who has had one day off. We might, possibly, show a tiny tiny handful of genuinely difficult parents (who do exist, but we're talking about perhaps 2 or 3 out of 1200) not to try it on about attendance. We have definitely upset, annoyed and confused probably hundreds of parents who are horrified that they're getting a warning from us.
Except 1 day off out of 190 is surely something like 99.5% attendance.

Just as all schools can't be "above average". It's a statistical impossibility.

The lack of logical application of maths is just one of many things about the Tory approach to education that really winds me up.

Think that should read 'at this stage in the school year'. i.e since September.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:23 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A new cabinet won’t save Theresa May. Brexit has doomed her
Steve Richards

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:41 pm

Interesting.

Jon Worth‏Verified account @jonworth 3h3 hours ago
More
Dominic Cummings deleting his Twitter account is I suppose to be expected. Vote Leave deleted its website to avoid scrutiny too… #brexit

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 09 Oct, 2017 9:49 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Martin Rowson on Theresa May and the EU court

PTO