Wednesday 18th October 2017

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Ouch May walks right into the trap!

Corbyn quotes no other than Osborne back at her - his recent statement that Brown did broadly the right thing in handling the crash.

[PorFavor]

Theresa May says (I paraphrase) that the 'phone line has been made free because the Government doesn't believe that poor people should have to pay money that they can't afford to get the help they need. So why was the charging regime introduced in the first place when the effect it would have was obvious from the outset?

[AnatolyKasparov]

Is the Graun calling this one a draw as well?

[Willow904]

PMQs - Snap verdict: A Corbyn victory, obviously, although it was one that he notched up at 9.30am, and at PMQs he just ambled through a confident but straightforward victory lap.

Helped along by a truly garbled and unconvincing Theresa May.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Well, no arguing with that I suppose

[HindleA]

Another tooth of mine just fell.out.I like to keep people informed.I've still got 15 and a half left.

[gilsey]

PMQs - Snap verdict: A Corbyn victory, obviously, although it was one that he notched up at 9.30am, and at PMQs he just ambled through a confident but straightforward victory lap.

This is more like it

His questions were serious, shrewd and pertinent and, although this tactic does not allow him to push a single issue aggressively, today he started to flesh out an interesting and convincing ‘weak economy, not strong economy’ line of argument...........Corbyn won, and he won on the economy. That is something that ought to worry the Tories enormously.

I wonder if Osborne did that deliberately, would be in character.

[gilsey]

She also criticised Blackford for not acknowledging that 250,000 more people are in work in Scotland than in 2010.

That's all they've got on the economy now, the employment rate, it's starting to sound a bit thin.

[HindleA]

PF having trouble getting out of armour,throwing the gauntlet down.

[HindleA]

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... uel-system" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[HindleA]

8 % now,just wait until we get to the hard cases(already a few,multiple cock ups)When I say hard more than two additions.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... sal-credit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

benefits-helpline-free-universal-credit

[tinybgoat]

Just switched on halfway through,
but radio4 program 16:00 - 16:30, covering benefit reforms, was quite good.

Thinking Allowed - Whither the Welfare State? - @bbcradio4 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b098jslj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[PorFavor]

Just switched on halfway through,
but radio4 program 16:00 - 16:30, covering benefit reforms, was quite good.

Thinking Allowed - Whither the Welfare State? - @bbcradio4 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b098jslj" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or - "Wither the Welfare State" as the Conservatives would have it.

[refitman]

Wow I managed to merge the two threads.

And we have the correct date

Oi! I resemble that remark.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Looks like the same shabby trick the Tories have pulled before on this sort of vote, then.

[citizenJA]

Bloody hell even PF's got her armour on.Her combined thrashing a sword about and gin drinking is poetry in motion.

I've been hiding all day

[citizenJA]

Good-evening, everyone

[HindleA]

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... -response/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The Work and Pensions committee receives a response from the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) answering some of the series of questions about the operation of Universal Credit over the last month.

Commenting on the response, Rt Hon Frank Field MP, Chair of the Committee, said:

"I am pleased, finally, to receive an answer to some of our questions. I am alarmed, however, by the response.

The Department has no idea about the operation of its flagship policy. For example, they do not know how many people are waiting 8, 10, 12 weeks for payment, or why.

[AnatolyKasparov]

Freedland's barely believable piece today, anybody else seen it??

"S*** the bed" is about the kindest thing I can utter - I see that comments were so overwhelmingly negative that they were closed in short order. Again.

[HindleA]

http://media.shelter.org.uk/press_relea ... dit_debate" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[citizenJA]

Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA

[Tubby Isaacs]

Ouch May walks right into the trap!

Corbyn quotes no other than Osborne back at her - his recent statement that Brown did broadly the right thing in handling the crash.

Jesus, I missed that from Osborne. He went mad at nationalization of Northern Rock at the time.

On the subject of walking into traps, James Brokenshire might have walked into a trap that wasn't even set.

He happily confirmed no cameras will be at the Irish border spying on people crossing.

Then later (or maybe he hasn't) realized that the line is supposed to be innovative technological solutions for the border. If they don't have cameras, they're not going to work. Because they don't exist.

Don't tell him, Pike.

[refitman]

I see Heidi Allen put her money where her mouth is and abstained on the UC vote.

[refitman]

I see Heidi Allen put her money where her mouth is and abstained on the UC vote.

Credit to Wollaston, she did vote with Labour.

[Tubby Isaacs]

And re Article 50, we're in the shit, no doubt about it. I would have voted against triggering for various reasons we've discussed, but it hadn't dawned on me properly that it was unstoppable and though I reckoned rEU might be tempted to run it down, I didn't believe people in the government would think that was a good idea. So what do I, frankly?

I still don't get this idea of passing a law against no deal or whatever it is. My in house lawyer on another board reckoned it was rubbish, and I see David Allen Green said that too. I would think that's what Kier Starmer and Dominic Grieve think too. So is it a ploy to focus government minds? I can see that, though it shouldn't be talked up and give false hope.

[Tubby Isaacs]

I see Heidi Allen put her money where her mouth is and abstained on the UC vote.

Credit to Wollaston, she did vote with Labour.

What was Edward Leigh talking about afterwards? Was he referring to the principle of these unopposed opposition day votes?

He's an odd one, very right wing, but can occasionally surprise in a good way.

[PorFavor]

I see Heidi Allen put her money where her mouth is and abstained on the UC vote.

Credit to Wollaston, she did vote with Labour.

What was Edward Leigh talking about afterwards? Was he referring to the principle of these unopposed opposition day votes?

He's an odd one, very right wing, but can occasionally surprise in a good way.

Well, I took it that he was referring to unopposed opposition day votes. I can't think of any other interpretation. He seemed to be having a bit of an existential crisis.




Edited - typo

[PorFavor]

European Union leaders at a crunch summit dinner are set to rebuff Theresa May’s appeal for trade talks while they seek to publicly talk up her efforts in the Brexit negotiations because they fear that the prime minister’s domestic weakness will leave her unable to make vital concessions on Britain’s divorce bill.

The German chancellor, Angela Merkel, will lead European leaders in Brussels on Thursday in seeking to put the best gloss on their refusal to widen the talks, according to diplomatic sources. “There are ways to say it kindly and encouragingly or less kindly and less encouraging,” said one senior EU diplomat.(Guardian)

But don't tell anyone . . .

How can Theresa May keep going if she has any self-respect?

[PorFavor]

Here's the link to go with the above quote -

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rade-talks

[Tubby Isaacs]

Corbyn's received a stiff letter from that European Research Group thing. He's destroying the position of our grandmaster-level PM. He probably had a good laugh, as Ken Clarke would have done if he got sent a copy too.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Well done to those on Twitter who are saying that the advisory vote on UC means "the will of the House" is to pause it

[Tubby Isaacs]

Tory investment in Brexit pensioners going well, I see. And overall, given that whatever your feelings of how it's going now, at the back of your mind will be that Leave did win, that's quite a striking result. London doesn't seem to have shifted. Wonder if poorer "heartlands" are shifting, having copped the effects?

Survation poll:

Remain 52% (+4)
Leave 48% (-4)

18-34

Remain 69% (+5)
Leave 31% (-5)

Devolved Areas (Remain):

Scotland 67%
London 59%
NI 54%
Wales 52%
England 50%

Party Remain %

Lib Dem 83% (+10)
Labour 68% (+5)
SNP 65% (+4)
Tories 30% (-1)

[PaulfromYorkshire]

Look how the shameless BBC are still reporting it!

[HindleA]

@Paul with respect I have difficulty with the concept,The trouble being with viewing benefits as a "whole" is that you get the situation of sickness/disability being nudged to jsa,equally from April jsa homeowners can have an untimelimited loan,the same basis as the not expected to work,whereas it used to be a timelimited benefit for jsa.You lose the distinctions,subject to circumstances,often in contradictory ways.Largely why I agin the universal basic income musings,fundamentally different situations have to be treated fundamentally differently.May well be of benefit with those with choice/flexible,I can't see it being other than deleterious to those that haven't.At best "service "replacement in lieu of income,more contigency,less independence.If the extra costs,allowance had been adequate we would have avoided for longer the need for means tested,the need to boost that is where I agree with musings on the Right-to be clear not on the same basis.Not necessarily a left/right thing at all times.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

@Paul with respect I have difficulty with the concept,The trouble being with viewing benefits as a "whole" is that you get the situation of sickness/disability being nudged to jsa,equally from April jsa homeowners can have an untimelimited loan,the same basis as the not expected to work,whereas it used to be a timelimited benefit for jsa.You lose the distinctions,subject to circumstances,often in contradictory ways.Largely why I agin the universal basic income musings,fundamentally different situations have to be treated fundamentally differently.May well be of benefit with those with choice/flexible,I can't see it being other than deleterious to those that haven't.At best "service "replacement in lieu of income,more contigency,less independence.If the extra costs,allowance had been adequate we would have avoided for longer the need for means tested,the need to boost that is where I agree with musings on the Right-to be clear not on the same basis.Not necessarily a left/right thing at all times.

Thanks. You may well be right. I can tend to be seduced by the idea of simplicity. But I think I understand what you are saying. I suppose I thought it might be less complex for the recipient if, in principle, they didn't have to make loads of different claims.

[howsillyofme1]

And re Article 50, we're in the shit, no doubt about it. I would have voted against triggering for various reasons we've discussed, but it hadn't dawned on me properly that it was unstoppable and though I reckoned rEU might be tempted to run it down, I didn't believe people in the government would think that was a good idea. So what do I, frankly?

I still don't get this idea of passing a law against no deal or whatever it is. My in house lawyer on another board reckoned it was rubbish, and I see David Allen Green said that too. I would think that's what Kier Starmer and Dominic Grieve think too. So is it a ploy to focus government minds? I can see that, though it shouldn't be talked up and give false hope.

There was a lot of 'passionate' debate about the A50 vote and no-one was right or was wrong in my view...it was a very hard position for a political party like Labour to have to work through. I still believe that it was the right decision at the time and that it has brought us at least a glimmer of hope we can reverse this process

Voting against may only have bought a small respite and then led to a big Tory majority Government - but that is all supposition

On the law.....the problem for the Government is that they have some very smart people up against them who are looking at all the opportunities to try to put pressure on them. The only way to stop this process is to bring down the Tories.....that will require them to be put under constant pressure (which is why things like UC and PMQ today are important) and some to finally have enough and vote out the Government

I just wonder what will happen if no deal is looking likely in early spring.....will they jump and support Labour? Probably not but it is the only hope there is

[PorFavor]

I was just wandering through today's previous posts and I noticed this -

Brexit.

Also causing pubic finances to deteriorate, meaning less money available for everything else.

But it is a bit tricky, so best to talk about something else.

I'm surprised that I didn't see it earlier. I Googled "pubic finances" but I came up empty.

(The emphasis in the above quote is mine.)

[PaulfromYorkshire]

In any case, I have been 100% opposed to UC since Smith first proposed it. It was never going to be a good thing.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

I have, indeed, always found it best to avoid discussing my pubic finances

[Tubby Isaacs]

And re Article 50, we're in the shit, no doubt about it. I would have voted against triggering for various reasons we've discussed, but it hadn't dawned on me properly that it was unstoppable and though I reckoned rEU might be tempted to run it down, I didn't believe people in the government would think that was a good idea. So what do I, frankly?

I still don't get this idea of passing a law against no deal or whatever it is. My in house lawyer on another board reckoned it was rubbish, and I see David Allen Green said that too. I would think that's what Kier Starmer and Dominic Grieve think too. So is it a ploy to focus government minds? I can see that, though it shouldn't be talked up and give false hope.

There was a lot of 'passionate' debate about the A50 vote and no-one was right or was wrong in my view...it was a very hard position for a political party like Labour to have to work through. I still believe that it was the right decision at the time and that it has brought us at least a glimmer of hope we can reverse this process

Voting against may only have bought a small respite and then led to a big Tory majority Government - but that is all supposition

On the law.....the problem for the Government is that they have some very smart people up against them who are looking at all the opportunities to try to put pressure on them. The only way to stop this process is to bring down the Tories.....that will require them to be put under constant pressure (which is why things like UC and PMQ today are important) and some to finally have enough and vote out the Government

I just wonder what will happen if no deal is looking likely in early spring.....will they jump and support Labour? Probably not but it is the only hope there is

We don't need to revisit the arguments, but I can certainly see how Labour would have been accused of blocking Brexit, even if it wasn't true at all. I put a lot of store by the Fixed Term Parliament act, but could they really have "blocked" a general election too? Not sure. Then again, maybe that was the only way to bring home what Article 50 would amount to- and as I say, I didn't get it, because I didn't foresee "no deal" government policy, as it seems to be.

The big card we do have, all on the same side now, as we weren't always, is a mass movement that does mostly get it. I have blown hot and cold on the leadership on Brexit, but I'm reasonably confident that they get the hole we're in.

[HindleA]

@paul I know and realise that,I occasionally like to waffle.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

[Tubby Isaacs]

In any case, I have been 100% opposed to UC since Smith first proposed it. It was never going to be a good thing.

Indeed, though it was such an easy thing to be in favour of "in principle", as I think Shelter was at one point. It's how I am with Brexit- no good will come of this, though that's probably a backbench kite flying position rather than a front bench one.

[HindleA]

I've just found five pence in my nether regions,to be fair.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

@paul I know and realise that,I occasionally like to waffle.

No you make good points. Thanks.

[howsillyofme1]

And re Article 50, we're in the shit, no doubt about it. I would have voted against triggering for various reasons we've discussed, but it hadn't dawned on me properly that it was unstoppable and though I reckoned rEU might be tempted to run it down, I didn't believe people in the government would think that was a good idea. So what do I, frankly?

I still don't get this idea of passing a law against no deal or whatever it is. My in house lawyer on another board reckoned it was rubbish, and I see David Allen Green said that too. I would think that's what Kier Starmer and Dominic Grieve think too. So is it a ploy to focus government minds? I can see that, though it shouldn't be talked up and give false hope.

There was a lot of 'passionate' debate about the A50 vote and no-one was right or was wrong in my view...it was a very hard position for a political party like Labour to have to work through. I still believe that it was the right decision at the time and that it has brought us at least a glimmer of hope we can reverse this process

Voting against may only have bought a small respite and then led to a big Tory majority Government - but that is all supposition

On the law.....the problem for the Government is that they have some very smart people up against them who are looking at all the opportunities to try to put pressure on them. The only way to stop this process is to bring down the Tories.....that will require them to be put under constant pressure (which is why things like UC and PMQ today are important) and some to finally have enough and vote out the Government

I just wonder what will happen if no deal is looking likely in early spring.....will they jump and support Labour? Probably not but it is the only hope there is

We don't need to revisit the arguments, but I can certainly see how Labour would have been accused of blocking Brexit, even if it wasn't true at all. I put a lot of store by the Fixed Term Parliament act, but could they really have "blocked" a general election too? Not sure. Then again, maybe that was the only way to bring home what Article 50 would amount to- and as I say, I didn't get it, because I didn't foresee "no deal" government policy, as it seems to be.

The big card we do have, all on the same side now, as we weren't always, is a mass movement that does mostly get it. I have blown hot and cold on the leadership on Brexit, but I'm reasonably confident that they get the hole we're in.

don't disagree with that

[PorFavor]

Night night.

[PaulfromYorkshire]

.

[adam]

I Googled "pubic finances" but I came up empty.

Thank heavens.