Friday 20th October 2017

Post by **refitman** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 7:09 am

Morning all.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 7:26 am

Morning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-41609763" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bletchley Park quiz - Are you a codebreaker?

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 7:27 am

I do like Lavery's defence that no member has complained about the £165k spent on him

There are 10 members.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-41688280" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 7:41 am

TUC research referenced last night

Cost of childcare has risen four times faster than wages since 2008, says TUC

https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/cost-childc ... 8-says-tuc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 8:05 am

Update on the school that disbarred the little girl from a trip due to medical appointments.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liv ... o-13786163" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Personally,can't believe they wouldn't think of such things before implementing and what a crap and divisive "message".I can also think of other situations.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 8:32 am

The report on Lavery is here

https://t.co/OCEG0e9rQB?amp=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He shouldn't be Chair if the Labour party.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 8:32 am

Morning.

Juxtaposition to make your head come off:

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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 8:34 am

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... Chancellor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Public service pressures facing the Chancellor and how he should tackle them

Institute For Government

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 8:49 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... nding-love" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Snail in the coffin: left-coiling mollusc Jeremy dies after finding love

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 9:05 am

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I'm a masters-level historian, and I don't know how future students will be able to explain this period without extensive study of the British media. All of it, not just propaganda rags.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 9:52 am

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... s-bulletin" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Public sector finances bulletin

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governme ... tember2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 10:26 am

https://www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/buildin ... icit/35790" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Addressing the accessible housing deficit

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 11:32 am

SpinningHugo wrote:The report on Lavery is here

https://t.co/OCEG0e9rQB?amp=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He shouldn't be Chair if the Labour party.

He does seem to lead a charmed life, I will put it that way.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:23 pm

http://www.res.org.uk/view/art7Oct17Features.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The BBC - at it again?

For the last year or so the RES (and others) have been expressing concerns about the way in which the media, and the BBC in particular, report economic news. Recent events suggest this anxiety is likely to continue for a while yet.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:35 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... k-students" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oxford accused of 'social apartheid' as colleges admit no black students

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:37 pm

Peter Foster ✔@pmdfoster
May: I'll take a question from some of our European colleagues?

British voice. "We're all European"

Laughter

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:49 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

I'm a masters-level historian, and I don't know how future students will be able to explain this period without extensive study of the British media. All of it, not just propaganda rags.

I liked James O'Brien's simple, effective response to the desperate thread irritant:

"Man advising government on what would happen under no deal explained his conclusions; other bloke ‘believed’ we’ll be fine. Didn’t say why."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:49 pm

https://www.nao.org.uk/report/the-uk-bo ... =hootsuite" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The UK Border
This report provides Parliament with insights on the issues and challenges for government’s management of the border in light of the UK’s planned departure from the European Union.

(NAO)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:49 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:52 pm

tinyclanger2 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... k-students
Oxford accused of 'social apartheid' as colleges admit no black students

The following twitter thread gives a bit more context and raises questions about attainment at 'A' level which is clearly part of the wider picture. I certainly found it surprising that black students were missing predicted grades at 'A' level by a higher percentage than other ethnic groups:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:55 pm

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump
Follow Follow @realDonaldTrump
More
Just out report: "United Kingdom crime rises 13% annually amid spread of Radical Islamic terror." Not good, we must keep America safe!
11:31 AM - 20 Oct 2017

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 12:56 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:04 pm

#Jonathan Pie

@realDonaldTrump Where did you get that report from Donald. Fox? Breitbart? Your arse?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:13 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

I'm a masters-level historian, and I don't know how future students will be able to explain this period without extensive study of the British media. All of it, not just propaganda rags.

Re the "unbiased" media such as the BBC, unscrupulous demagogues have shamelessly exploited their desire for "balance".

It was never meant to be "balance" between truth and falsehood, but that is too often how it turns out in practice. The fact that more and more media people are drawn from an ever narrower and out of touch circle doesn't help, of course. Nor does (lets be honest here) the baleful influence of postmodernism (not least in "media studies")

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:20 pm

People say this without really meaning it, but...

...god damn this bastard to hell.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:22 pm

https://chpi.org.uk/papers/reports/no-s ... n-scandal/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NO SAFETY WITHOUT LIABILITY: REFORMING PRIVATE HOSPITALS IN ENGLAND AFTER THE IAN PATERSON SCANDAL

Centre For Health & The Public Interest.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:24 pm

A good recent example of what I am talking about, of course, was the BBC giving Patrick Minford's delusional moonshine pretty much a free pass.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:26 pm

https://amp.ft.com/content/d321e29f-b78 ... 89142f3a6a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The likelihood of a no-deal Brexit

If you can access this article from the FT, I think it's worth a look. It lays things out in a clear way that exposes the ultimate truth - that eventually one side or the other has to capitulate and that side will have to be us. The real question is what needs to happen within domestic politics to enable that to happen. To be clear, we are only in this position because we triggered article 50 before we had properly prepared. We robbed ourselves of the time we obviously needed.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:30 pm

NonOxCol wrote:People say this without really meaning it, but...

...god damn this bastard to hell.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm sure its all part of MAKING AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:37 pm

Duplicate.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:47 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:A good recent example of what I am talking about, of course, was the BBC giving Patrick Minford's delusional moonshine pretty much a free pass.

And having the non-scientist Lord Lawson giving the other side of the climate change argument "for balance"

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 1:52 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... 07b511d533" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Macron accuses the UK of 'bluffing' over 'no deal' option"

Pah, I bet he's never even watched 'call my bluff', let alone played Poker.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 2:25 pm

Pro-Trump ‘War Hero’ Featured on Fox News Never Actually Served

https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-trump ... lly-served" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 2:30 pm

This isn't called 'the rise and fall of UKIP' but it could have been, good read about why we shouldn't pander to concerns about immigration.
https://gapingsilence.wordpress.com/201 ... -solution/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

both the far Left and the Greens have been substantial presences on the British political spectrum for the last forty years. Why did the right-of-Conservative area acquire the cachet of ‘respectable rebels’ and attract the enduring fascination of political scientists, centre-left journalists and BBC Question Time – to the point where it seemed to acquire much more substance than it ever really had – while the left-of-Labour area remained out in the cold, branded and outcast forever like Edmund? Why – let me put this another way – was respectability bestowed on people openly advocating policies which would make nobody’s life any better but only fuel ignorance and hatred while causing misery on a large scale, when people calling for ecologically-sound public investment and mixed-economy social democracy were either ignored or treated like apologists for Pol Pot?

Very good question, to which he doesn't have an answer.
IMO this from AK earlier is the main factor.

The fact that more and more media people are drawn from an ever narrower and out of touch circle

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 2:53 pm

Willow904 wrote:https://amp.ft.com/content/d321e29f-b78 ... 89142f3a6a

The likelihood of a no-deal Brexit

If you can access this article from the FT, I think it's worth a look. It lays things out in a clear way that exposes the ultimate truth - that eventually one side or the other has to capitulate and that side will have to be us. The real question is what needs to happen within domestic politics to enable that to happen. To be clear, we are only in this position because we triggered article 50 before we had properly prepared. We robbed ourselves of the time we obviously needed.

(cJA emphasis)

Yes, good article. The UK doesn't have the time to put necessary systems in place, it's not a matter of ideology, it's a fact.
We're not supposed to quote from the source itself and I'm having trouble explaining it in my own words.
Is UK government unable to act because UK Leave politicians and pro-Brexit media oppose that action?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 4:25 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:https://amp.ft.com/content/d321e29f-b78 ... 89142f3a6a

The likelihood of a no-deal Brexit

If you can access this article from the FT, I think it's worth a look. It lays things out in a clear way that exposes the ultimate truth - that eventually one side or the other has to capitulate and that side will have to be us. The real question is what needs to happen within domestic politics to enable that to happen. To be clear, we are only in this position because we triggered article 50 before we had properly prepared. We robbed ourselves of the time we obviously needed.
(cJA emphasis)

Yes, good article. The UK doesn't have the time to put necessary systems in place, it's not a matter of ideology, it's a fact.
We're not supposed to quote from the source itself and I'm having trouble explaining it in my own words.
Is UK government unable to act because UK Leave politicians and pro-Brexit media oppose that action?

There did seem to be a bit of hysteria over the need to get on and trigger article 50 as soon as possible that came from pressure from the leave lobby and the press, but I still don't really understand why Theresa May triggered article 50 without a proper plan. She had plenty of time. The next election was still 4 years away. As long as she triggered article 50 before 2020 there was no need to fear a backlash from impatient leave voters at the ballot box. I think it's a reflection of the fact that she had very little real support within the Tory parliamentary party from either faction that she was unable to stand against the pressure to not to be seen to be blocking Brexit, which was a media construct a more confident PM could have knocked down with an insistence on the need to take the time to get the process right.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 4:47 pm

Willow904 wrote:https://amp.ft.com/content/d321e29f-b78 ... 89142f3a6a

The likelihood of a no-deal Brexit

If you can access this article from the FT, I think it's worth a look. It lays things out in a clear way that exposes the ultimate truth - that eventually one side or the other has to capitulate and that side will have to be us. The real question is what needs to happen within domestic politics to enable that to happen. To be clear, we are only in this position because we triggered article 50 before we had properly prepared. We robbed ourselves of the time we obviously needed.

Quite.

This also gives the like to the claim hat the difficulties could have been avoided under a different government.

No.

Once you triggered Art 50 we had to take what we were offered. There was no choice.

So those trying to pin the blame on something other than that decision are charlatans.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 4:54 pm

Well if Labour had formed a government in 2015 there would never have been a referendum at all, so that's your problem solved.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 5:06 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well if Labour had formed a government in 2015 there would never have been a referendum at all, so that's your problem solved.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 5:12 pm

https://leftfootforward.org/2017/10/exc ... ntal-care/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 5:13 pm

Well, who'd have guessed that this might happen...

Exclusive: MAT employees asked to relocate 100 miles away after not reading small print

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... -after-not

Sara Ford, ASCL’s pay and conditions specialist, said the union had seen a rise in complaints from members who have discovered unpleasant surprises in their contracts.

One of the biggest issues affecting members is “mobility clauses”.

“Quite often they’re vague,” Ms Ford said. “They say that this will be your usual place of work, but the employer reserves the right to change that to somewhere else that they deem reasonable.

“But what you deem reasonable and what they deem reasonable may not be the same thing.”

Ms Ford said ASCL had been contacted by members who have been unexpectedly asked to relocate more than 100 miles away by their employer.

Ah yes, that "school autonomy" we hear so much about...the irony of this not being able to happen in an LA as, although teachers are employed by the LA, it is the school who have control over staff.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 5:14 pm

Looks like Clive Lewis has been a bit of a silly boy (and he agrees) but can we at least be spared WOKE PAUL STAINES please??

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 5:16 pm

Deleted

Commonly known as a "Vince Cable reaction"

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 5:17 pm

If a different government had been elected in the summer with a mandate for a soft Brexit, negotiations on an exit deal could have been further ahead by now.

It's the political pressure to have something to show for Brexit that creates difficulties. A party in government which wasn't instrumental in holding an EU referendum which hadn't had cabinet ministers who argued for leave would be in a better position to make the most of a bad job.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 6:06 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
Willow904 wrote:https://amp.ft.com/content/d321e29f-b78 ... 89142f3a6a

The likelihood of a no-deal Brexit

If you can access this article from the FT, I think it's worth a look. It lays things out in a clear way that exposes the ultimate truth - that eventually one side or the other has to capitulate and that side will have to be us. The real question is what needs to happen within domestic politics to enable that to happen. To be clear, we are only in this position because we triggered article 50 before we had properly prepared. We robbed ourselves of the time we obviously needed.

Quite.

This also gives the like to the claim hat the difficulties could have been avoided under a different government.

No.

Once you triggered Art 50 we had to take what we were offered. There was no choice.

So those trying to pin the blame on something other than that decision are charlatans.

So the Tories held the referendum, Tory voters voted for Brexit, a Tory PM decided to send A50, decided to have a GE in the middle of the negotiations and a Tory Government is making a big hash of it

So, in summary, this is pretty much all the fault of the Conservative Party, its members and its voters with a large helping hand from Farage and parts of the media

All other actors in this drama played some small part but were relatively incidental and had to react to decisions made by the Conservatives from 2015 onwards

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 6:11 pm

Willow904 wrote:If a different government had been elected in the summer with a mandate for a soft Brexit, negotiations on an exit deal could have been further ahead by now.

It's the political pressure to have something to show for Brexit that creates difficulties. A party in government which wasn't instrumental in holding an EU referendum which hadn't had cabinet ministers who argued for leave would be in a better position to make the most of a bad job.

I think that is perfectly correct - a different Government would have set a different tone and would be able to acheive more

The EU is admitting it has to decide what 'sufficient' is regards to SM membership and there will be differing views. I think Starmer would be able to work with these and come up with something that allows us to have a soft Brexit - something I didn't think would be possible to say 6 months ago. There is also the backing from all the other parties in the HoC for this apart from the DUP (and not a few Tories as well apparently - albeit cowards)- they may not be a majority but the opposition are starting to look like one now working in concert and not much sniping going on between them at the moment either (the outcome of the ScotLab leadership may change that though)

With this mob in charge though and the Brexiteers sniping away I find it difficult to imagine the Tories being able to do this

I know I repeat myself a lol

but I still maintain Ireland is the question that has still not been answered at all by the Tories.....no hard border but outside the SM and CU......as Tom O'Conner would say 'name that tune'

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 6:20 pm

Good morfternoon.

Donald Trump has been accused of fuelling hate crime with a tweet erroneously linking a rise in the UK crime rate to "radical Islamic terror".

The Labour MP, Yvette Cooper, said the statement was "inflammatory and ignorant", while ex-Labour leader Ed Miliband said Mr Trump was "a moron".

The Home Office declined to comment. (BBC News website)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41695667

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 6:32 pm

For citizenJA, who was asking the other day:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ustry-72bn" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hurricanes and earthquakes will cost insurance industry £72bn

But he indicated that the cost to the insurance industry would be reduced by the fact that only one in six Houston homeowners were covered.

The economic cost – which includes damage which is not covered by insurance policies – has been estimated at $300bn.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 7:17 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Looks like Clive Lewis has been a bit of a silly boy (and he agrees) but can we at least be spared WOKE PAUL STAINES please??

*cough*
Piccaninnies, water melon smiles, dead Libyans, Darius Guppy, punishment beatings, and many more, still Foreign Secretary.

tinyclanger2 · Post by **tinyclanger2** » Fri 20 Oct, 2017 8:16 pm

History tells us that nationalist referendums, like those in Kurdistan and the UK, never end well
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(PTO)