Monday 23rd October 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 7:10 am

Morning all.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:14 am

Good morfternoon.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:16 am

UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-say-meps

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:21 am

PorFavor wrote:
UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-say-meps

Sounds like balls to me.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:42 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-say-meps
Sounds like balls to me.

Morning. What does? Why? Genuine questions!

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:43 am

SpinningHugo wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-say-meps
Sounds like balls to me.

what is?

I thought it was quite clear that EU do not accept their citizens treated being subject to different conditions than native citizens under the rules of the Internal Market

Some countries register everyone (eg in France everyone is registered with the commune of residence). In UK we dont register UK citizens in that way so will not be able to do it for the EU ones

This is part of the elasticity in FoM that I spoke of yesterday. Starmer understands this complication as he mentioned it on Peston a few weeks ago

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 8:58 am

One of the problems in the UK is that the authorities do not know in which areas people reside and this leads to all sorts of diverse issues such as UK citizens resident abroad accessing health care to the electoral roll

We have no easy way to demonstrate residence (I posted a list a week or so ago and it is a bit of a joke)

There are cultural reasons why we dont do this (see the ID card furore) but it just seems to make things more difficult

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 9:17 am

Patients need rest, not antibiotics, say health officials (BBC News website)

I don't dispute this. But I wonder how this advice fits with the many pressures of expectations and financial penalties placed on workers and benefits claimants. No wonder people feel that they need to seek a quick fix to all and any ailments.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41696236

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 10:53 am

How I wish May would take this advice on board.
May should ignore Tory ‘no deal’ brigade
by David Hannay | 22.10.2017
https://infacts.org/may-ignore-tory-no-deal-brigade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These consequences go far beyond the reciprocal raising of tariffs on UK-EU trade to meet WTO requirements. They involve onerous customs controls and the breakdown of a large number of regulatory disciplines, ranging from food safety to aviation safety and environmental standards; they make a mockery of any hope of avoiding border controls between the two parts of Ireland; they will bring about the immediate collapse of systems for combatting crime, including terrorism, and for the rapid extradition of criminals. And they will put paid to all the positive ideas for our future relationship with the EU set out in the Florence speech.

It really is essential to set all that out in black and white, not to continue hiding behind a smokescreen of excuses.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 11:22 am

Morning.

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With every day we are debased that little bit more.

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NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 11:25 am

Has to be seen to be believed, and even then...

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HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 11:36 am

https://www.theguardian.com/science/201 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen Hawking's 1966 doctoral thesis made available for first time

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 11:36 am

"Mr Hands..........is a Herbie Hancock album"

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 12:02 pm

The poor Tories seeking sympathy because *somebody* has dared leak details of what Juncker said about May (allegedly).

They don't like it up 'em eh?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 12:04 pm

Somebody should tell JRM that there are no bigger "snowflakes" out there than butthurt Tories.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 12:11 pm

Johnny Mercer on the BBC's Daily Politics doesn't want Universal Credit to be paused because of the success it has been in some areas. Where are these areas?

Edited to add - he means (or seemed to be referring to) geographic areas

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 12:16 pm

For those who want to be cheered up rather than depressed by Twitter, the Prof. Brit Pol account is worth a look if you don't know it already.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:00 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote: what is?

I thought it was quite clear that EU do not accept their citizens treated being subject to different conditions than native citizens under the rules of the Internal Market

Some countries register everyone (eg in France everyone is registered with the commune of residence). In UK we dont register UK citizens in that way so will not be able to do it for the EU ones

This is part of the elasticity in FoM that I spoke of yesterday. Starmer understands this complication as he mentioned it on Peston a few weeks ago

If the UK were saying "all EU citizens who are not-UK citizens must register" that would violate EU law.

It isn't. It is saying

"EU law is ceasing to apply in the UK following Brexit day. If you wish to retain the rights you now enjoy as an EU citizen you should register."

The latter doesn't contravene EU law.

There are lots of appalling things about brexit (eg that the rights EU citizens now have will not all be retained).

This isn't one. It is balls.

Your stuff about Starmer at the end is misconceived.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:16 pm

Today's No 10 lobby briefing according to the G live blog:

The spokesman refused to comment ....

There's more, but you get the gist. So many things Theresa May doesn't want to talk about.

BTW autocorrect tried to make Theresa May, Theresa Mash - branching out into predictions, maybe?!

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:17 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote: what is?

I thought it was quite clear that EU do not accept their citizens treated being subject to different conditions than native citizens under the rules of the Internal Market

Some countries register everyone (eg in France everyone is registered with the commune of residence). In UK we dont register UK citizens in that way so will not be able to do it for the EU ones

This is part of the elasticity in FoM that I spoke of yesterday. Starmer understands this complication as he mentioned it on Peston a few weeks ago
If the UK were saying "all EU citizens who are not-UK citizens must register" that would violate EU law.

It isn't. It is saying

"EU law is ceasing to apply in the UK following Brexit day. If you wish to retain the rights you now enjoy as an EU citizen you should register."

The latter doesn't contravene EU law.

There are lots of appalling things about brexit (eg that the rights EU citizens now have will not all be retained).

This isn't one. It is balls.

Your stuff about Starmer at the end is misconceived.

I got the sense from May's speech and from what you have put above that 'If you wish to retain the rights you now enjoy as an EU citizen you should register' that any EU Citizen wanting to retain the rights that would be theirs as right now will have to register

Or the converse if they do not register then they will be treated as non-EU citizens

I find it very difficult to see that this would not contravene the spirit of the articles on FoM as UK Citizens would not have to register to maintain the same rights

The above is conditional on us wanting to remain having access to the EU SM as we do now during a transition period - if we decide to leave on WTO then we can do what we want

From what I have seen and heard I think Starmer is leagues ahead of you in intelligence and understanding of the law - a lying (my personal view based on your claims about your background) anonymous poster on a message board vs a QC and ex DPP - I know where my confidence would lie

You are perfectly welcome to back your assertions with evidence that you are what you say you are....at least as well that would allow me to avoid you if I have any need of someone who knows the law

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:17 pm

Though Mr Farage is yet to turn into a garage, so maybe not.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:35 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:36 pm

Morning all. Hospital appointment this morning which is why I'm late for work - I expect my wages to be docked...

So, it's all going wonderfully...

UK manufacturing firms' building investment intentions at weakest level since 2009, finds CBI

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 15006.html

Manufacturing firms' building investment intentions are back down to their weakest in eight years according to the CBI's latest survey of the sector.

The net balance for new capital spending on buildings over the next 12 months plunged to -30 per cent in October, the lowest since July 2009.

The net balance for plant and machinery investment spending also slipped to -7 per cent.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:43 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... up-barnier" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jeremy-corbyn-eu-leaders-meeting-labour-brexit-grownup-barnier

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:44 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all. Hospital appointment this morning which is why I'm late for work - I expect my wages to be docked...

So, it's all going wonderfully...

UK manufacturing firms' building investment intentions at weakest level since 2009, finds CBI

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 15006.html

Manufacturing firms' building investment intentions are back down to their weakest in eight years according to the CBI's latest survey of the sector.

The net balance for new capital spending on buildings over the next 12 months plunged to -30 per cent in October, the lowest since July 2009.

The net balance for plant and machinery investment spending also slipped to -7 per cent.

March of the makers, who see opportunities in trading with the world.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:47 pm

Anyone in the mood for some tin-foil hat conspiracy theory? It's a really good one (especially video 3). Go on, you know you want to:

https://www.byline.com/column/67/article/1903" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm afraid no one is now going to convince me that the aim of Brexit is anything other than a concerted attempt to destroy the EU.

I might have to consider going off grid.....eek!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:47 pm

Sing it!

There's a whole new world out there
There's a whole new world
There's a whole new world
There's a whole new world
(To lose business to as well)

Financial Times‏Verified account
@FT
Banks plan to shift Asian trading from London to HK

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:57 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... uncils-say" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

universal-credit-sending-rent-arrears-and-food-bank-use-soaring-councils-say

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 1:58 pm

I mean, he couldn't possibly *double down*, *deny the obvious meaning* or accuse everyone of being *triggered*, could he?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 2:07 pm

Waffle

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 2:10 pm

A bit of context on the Catalan vote "fake news" story for those that may have missed it.

https://www.thelocal.es/20171012/catalo ... -fake-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Footage from a five-year-old miners' strike, a woman's broken fingers and a policeman who died on assignment: images swarming Spanish social media during the Catalonia independence crisis have one thing in common.
They are all fake news.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 2:20 pm

Because it is, of course, the remoaning liberal elite who sneer at the leave-inclined working class:

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PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 3:16 pm

Universal credit behind rising rent arrears and food bank use, 'guinea pig' councils say

Research by Southwark and Croydon councils reveals devastating effect of new benefits system
(Guardian)

Ah- these must be the successful areas referred to by Johnny Mercer.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... uncils-say

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 3:19 pm

@PaulfromYorkshire

Whoops - sorry!

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 3:21 pm

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InFacts reckon the MEPs are wrong about the registration thing.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 3:31 pm

NonOxCol wrote:Because it is, of course, the remoaning liberal elite who sneer at the leave-inclined working class:

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JHB was a liberal lefty herself once. More people should ask her about her past tbh.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 3:43 pm

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/opi ... -1-8812184" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Anne McIntosh, harshly deselected as a Tory MP and likely given a peerage to go quietly, calls for release of the impact assessments.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 3:49 pm

PorFavor wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire

Whoops - sorry!

Thanks for adding the extra context.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:12 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

InFacts reckon the MEPs are wrong about the registration thing.

Hi Tubby

Thanks for the link

I wondered where I got the impression that equal treatment was paramount and had a look at the directive

Article 25 covers id cards but it is A24 for equal treatment and I am not sure if this applies to registration too ie if it is not a requirement for a UK citizen to register then it cant be for the EU citizen either

I tried to find some legal ruling on the scope of A24von this subject but couldnt find one

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:15 pm

I haven't read the article, but the mind boggles -

Durex splits from Brasso and Cillit Bang in group shake-up at RB

http://news.sky.com/story/durex-splits- ... b-11086813

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:21 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:

InFacts reckon the MEPs are wrong about the registration thing.
Hi Tubby

Thanks for the link

I wondered where I got the impression that equal treatment was paramount and had a look at the directive

Article 25 covers id cards but it is A24 for equal treatment and I am not sure if this applies to registration too ie if it is not a requirement for a UK citizen to register then it cant be for the EU citizen either

I tried to find some legal ruling on the scope of A24von this subject but couldnt find one

Cheers.

I've heard lots of people I trust on EU stuff talk about us not having done what we could all along with registration. But that bit of yours there (which I assume is where the MEPs are coming from) makes most logical sense to me.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:32 pm

PorFavor wrote:I haven't read the article, but the mind boggles -

Durex splits from Brasso and Cillit Bang in group shake-up at RB
http://news.sky.com/story/durex-splits- ... b-11086813

Yes any item that starts "Durex splits" is going to struggle to recover!

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:46 pm

Tubby

I think I may have made an error that I have accused others of making in assuming something was obvious or settled in law when it is not the case

I am not sure if I am right at all and cannot see a precedent in the other EU countries so it could be that some (including me at some point) have read A24 and assumes it covers this aspect but reading back it is strangely worded

I can find no legal judgements pertaining to this which is perhaps not surprising as it is a specific case

I don't think anyone can say categorically whether it is legal or not

Also, looking at the directive it is again easy to see how a 'fair' immigration policy (fair to most people) could be introduced into the UK if we can use the room that it gives wisely....as we have said before a lot of the problems have been caused by our own policies - how many times do we have to say this!

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:52 pm

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Article 25 covers id cards but it is A24 for equal treatment and I am not sure if this applies to registration too ie if it is not a requirement for a UK citizen to register then it cant be for the EU citizen either

No, it doesn't.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... PDF#page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am very doubtful whether any of this EU law applies anyway. We aren't requiring anyone to register. But, EU citizens will lose their rights under EU law within the UK on Brexit. The UK is saying "if you want to retain, you are hereby given the option to register."

The suggestion that not giving EU citizens this option would be lawful, whilst giving them it isn't, is just daft.

A silly story.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 4:58 pm

Kevin Maguire‏Verified account @Kevin_Maguire 59m59 minutes ago
More
Ken Clarke warms Brextremist no deal "noisy minority" in May's Cabinet & Tory MPs are the big threat. Not Lab, Libs, SNP, etc

Indeed.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 5:08 pm

Re registration of EU citizens, Steve Peers view here, apologies if we've already had it.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... legal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As noted already, the UK government’s intention to require EU citizens to register if they come to the UK during the transitional period is consistent with the EU citizens’ Directive, which allows registration for stays longer than three months. Indeed, the Commission has reported that almost all EU states register citizens from other EU Member States. But a failure to register can only be punished by proportionate penalties, not expulsion or detention (see the ECJ ruling in Watson and Bellman, concerning a prior version of this law). According to the ECJ ruling in Huber, Member States may include information on EU citizens in a database, but this can only be used for the purpose of administering EU free movement law; if they put information on EU citizens in a criminal database, they must be treated equally with nationals of that Member State.

The Directive goes on to say that Member States cannot insist that registration certificates must be the sole method of checking entitlement to reside or any other right, since other forms of proving identity are possible; and that Member States can only penalise EU citizens for not carrying their registration certificates if they penalise their own citizens the same way for not carrying ID cards (see also the ECJ judgment in Oulane). It follows that as long as the UK doesn’t have an ID card system, it could not penalise EU citizens for not carrying registration certificates.

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 5:11 pm

SpinningHugo wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Article 25 covers id cards but it is A24 for equal treatment and I am not sure if this applies to registration too ie if it is not a requirement for a UK citizen to register then it cant be for the EU citizen either

No, it doesn't.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... PDF#page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am very doubtful whether any of this EU law applies anyway. We aren't requiring anyone to register. But, EU citizens will lose their rights under EU law within the UK on Brexit. The UK is saying "if you want to retain, you are hereby given the option to register."

The suggestion that not giving EU citizens this option would be lawful, whilst giving them it isn't, is just daft.

A silly story.

What I am saying is that in the event of a transitional deal then the rights under EU law would be considered to continue as now and be subject to same rules as now.......if you look back at my original response you will see I spelt out this assumption

In the current case as I see it the UK has an optional registration scheme. My contention is if that became compulsory and was not the same for UK citizens then A24 would mean it is against the EU directive. I have stated that I am not sure of that but as far as I can see this particular assumption has not been tested in law

You seem to be saying that the UK can, in the transitional deal, make registration compulsory and if people do not register then they will not be able to retain the rights pertaining to EU citizenship

They would then fall under this

'Failure to comply with the registration requirement may render the person concerned liable to proportionate and non-discriminatory sanctions.' but I am not sure what would be included in this

And why does EU law not apply?

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/ ... 32004L0038" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

howsillyofme1 · Post by **howsillyofme1** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 5:16 pm

gilsey wrote:Re registration of EU citizens, Steve Peers view here, apologies if we've already had it.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... legal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As noted already, the UK government’s intention to require EU citizens to register if they come to the UK during the transitional period is consistent with the EU citizens’ Directive, which allows registration for stays longer than three months. Indeed, the Commission has reported that almost all EU states register citizens from other EU Member States. But a failure to register can only be punished by proportionate penalties, not expulsion or detention (see the ECJ ruling in Watson and Bellman, concerning a prior version of this law). According to the ECJ ruling in Huber, Member States may include information on EU citizens in a database, but this can only be used for the purpose of administering EU free movement law; if they put information on EU citizens in a criminal database, they must be treated equally with nationals of that Member State.

The Directive goes on to say that Member States cannot insist that registration certificates must be the sole method of checking entitlement to reside or any other right, since other forms of proving identity are possible; and that Member States can only penalise EU citizens for not carrying their registration certificates if they penalise their own citizens the same way for not carrying ID cards (see also the ECJ judgment in Oulane). It follows that as long as the UK doesn’t have an ID card system, it could not penalise EU citizens for not carrying registration certificates.

That seems to make sense and seems to indicate there is a lot of uncertainty around the actual legality - makes it strange that SH is so certain his own interpretation is correct

One thing though is this A24 on equality which is an odd clause but can be read differently by different people and may have some impact - I think that is why I assumed that the UK couldn't force registration if it didn't do the same to its own citizens.....but for ID cards it is explicit so why not for registration if it applies....

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 5:16 pm

Yet again.

It doesn't apply because nobody is being required to register.

EU citizens will lose their rights in Brexit. EU law will cease to apply.

So unless the UK gives those resident here the option to register, they'll lose their rights without more.

That option doesn't need to be given to those who have these rights independently of EU law.

You'll notice that despite your no doubt furious searching you haven't found any lawyers giving the story much credence.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 23 Oct, 2017 5:27 pm

The fall-out over WCAT giving up all of their schools continues...

Wakefield City Academies Trust run on 'basis of fear'

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... basis-fear

This bit especially caught my eye...

“Academies have been promised a level of autonomy and independence beyond that which is realistic within a MAT and have not adjusted to this after becoming part of WCAT. The trust has also failed to set out clear expectations and hold people to account. This has led to a ‘free for all’ with some academies ignoring trust requirements altogether”

But...but...we were told that school have more autonomy in a MAT than under the LA where they were "run by bureaucrats"!