FlyTheNest

UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)

PorFavor wrote:

UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-say-meps

SpinningHugo wrote:

PorFavor wrote:

UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-say-meps

Sounds like balls to me.

SpinningHugo wrote:

PorFavor wrote:

UK plan to register EU citizens would be illegal, say MEPs

Britain will have to register ‘everyone or no one’ in Brexit transition, says cross-party group after Amber Rudd outlines plans

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, has been warned by a cross-party group of MEPs that her plans to force EU nationals to add their names to a register in the transition period immediately after Brexit would be illegal and unacceptable to the European parliament.

The MEPs from across Europe have written to Rudd following her suggestions to the home affairs committee that she would expect EU nationals to have to register with the authorities in the period immediately after Britain left the EU. Brussels is planning to insist that a transition period after the UK leaves in March 2019 would involve Britain remaining under EU law and all its institutions, without exception. (Guardian)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-say-meps

Sounds like balls to me.

Patients need rest, not antibiotics, say health officials (BBC News website)

These consequences go far beyond the reciprocal raising of tariffs on UK-EU trade to meet WTO requirements. They involve onerous customs controls and the breakdown of a large number of regulatory disciplines, ranging from food safety to aviation safety and environmental standards; they make a mockery of any hope of avoiding border controls between the two parts of Ireland; they will bring about the immediate collapse of systems for combatting crime, including terrorism, and for the rapid extradition of criminals. And they will put paid to all the positive ideas for our future relationship with the EU set out in the Florence speech.

It really is essential to set all that out in black and white, not to continue hiding behind a smokescreen of excuses.

howsillyofme1 wrote: what is?

I thought it was quite clear that EU do not accept their citizens treated being subject to different conditions than native citizens under the rules of the Internal Market

Some countries register everyone (eg in France everyone is registered with the commune of residence). In UK we dont register UK citizens in that way so will not be able to do it for the EU ones

This is part of the elasticity in FoM that I spoke of yesterday. Starmer understands this complication as he mentioned it on Peston a few weeks ago

The spokesman refused to comment ....

SpinningHugo wrote:

howsillyofme1 wrote: what is?

I thought it was quite clear that EU do not accept their citizens treated being subject to different conditions than native citizens under the rules of the Internal Market

Some countries register everyone (eg in France everyone is registered with the commune of residence). In UK we dont register UK citizens in that way so will not be able to do it for the EU ones

This is part of the elasticity in FoM that I spoke of yesterday. Starmer understands this complication as he mentioned it on Peston a few weeks ago

If the UK were saying "all EU citizens who are not-UK citizens must register" that would violate EU law.

It isn't. It is saying

"EU law is ceasing to apply in the UK following Brexit day. If you wish to retain the rights you now enjoy as an EU citizen you should register."

The latter doesn't contravene EU law.

There are lots of appalling things about brexit (eg that the rights EU citizens now have will not all be retained).

This isn't one. It is balls.

Your stuff about Starmer at the end is misconceived.

Manufacturing firms' building investment intentions are back down to their weakest in eight years according to the CBI's latest survey of the sector.

The net balance for new capital spending on buildings over the next 12 months plunged to -30 per cent in October, the lowest since July 2009.

The net balance for plant and machinery investment spending also slipped to -7 per cent.

RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all. Hospital appointment this morning which is why I'm late for work - I expect my wages to be docked...

So, it's all going wonderfully...

UK manufacturing firms' building investment intentions at weakest level since 2009, finds CBI

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/busin ... 15006.html

Manufacturing firms' building investment intentions are back down to their weakest in eight years according to the CBI's latest survey of the sector.

The net balance for new capital spending on buildings over the next 12 months plunged to -30 per cent in October, the lowest since July 2009.

The net balance for plant and machinery investment spending also slipped to -7 per cent.

Financial Times‏Verified account
@FT
Banks plan to shift Asian trading from London to HK

Footage from a five-year-old miners' strike, a woman's broken fingers and a policeman who died on assignment: images swarming Spanish social media during the Catalonia independence crisis have one thing in common.
They are all fake news.

Universal credit behind rising rent arrears and food bank use, 'guinea pig' councils say

Research by Southwark and Croydon councils reveals devastating effect of new benefits system
(Guardian)

NonOxCol wrote:Because it is, of course, the remoaning liberal elite who sneer at the leave-inclined working class:

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PorFavor wrote:@PaulfromYorkshire

Whoops - sorry!

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

InFacts reckon the MEPs are wrong about the registration thing.

Durex splits from Brasso and Cillit Bang in group shake-up at RB

howsillyofme1 wrote:

Tubby Isaacs wrote:

InFacts reckon the MEPs are wrong about the registration thing.

Hi Tubby

Thanks for the link

I wondered where I got the impression that equal treatment was paramount and had a look at the directive

Article 25 covers id cards but it is A24 for equal treatment and I am not sure if this applies to registration too ie if it is not a requirement for a UK citizen to register then it cant be for the EU citizen either

I tried to find some legal ruling on the scope of A24von this subject but couldnt find one

PorFavor wrote:I haven't read the article, but the mind boggles -

Durex splits from Brasso and Cillit Bang in group shake-up at RB

http://news.sky.com/story/durex-splits- ... b-11086813

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Article 25 covers id cards but it is A24 for equal treatment and I am not sure if this applies to registration too ie if it is not a requirement for a UK citizen to register then it cant be for the EU citizen either

Kevin Maguire‏Verified account @Kevin_Maguire 59m59 minutes ago
More
Ken Clarke warms Brextremist no deal "noisy minority" in May's Cabinet & Tory MPs are the big threat. Not Lab, Libs, SNP, etc

As noted already, the UK government’s intention to require EU citizens to register if they come to the UK during the transitional period is consistent with the EU citizens’ Directive, which allows registration for stays longer than three months. Indeed, the Commission has reported that almost all EU states register citizens from other EU Member States. But a failure to register can only be punished by proportionate penalties, not expulsion or detention (see the ECJ ruling in Watson and Bellman, concerning a prior version of this law). According to the ECJ ruling in Huber, Member States may include information on EU citizens in a database, but this can only be used for the purpose of administering EU free movement law; if they put information on EU citizens in a criminal database, they must be treated equally with nationals of that Member State.

The Directive goes on to say that Member States cannot insist that registration certificates must be the sole method of checking entitlement to reside or any other right, since other forms of proving identity are possible; and that Member States can only penalise EU citizens for not carrying their registration certificates if they penalise their own citizens the same way for not carrying ID cards (see also the ECJ judgment in Oulane). It follows that as long as the UK doesn’t have an ID card system, it could not penalise EU citizens for not carrying registration certificates.

SpinningHugo wrote:

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Article 25 covers id cards but it is A24 for equal treatment and I am not sure if this applies to registration too ie if it is not a requirement for a UK citizen to register then it cant be for the EU citizen either

No, it doesn't.

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... PDF#page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am very doubtful whether any of this EU law applies anyway. We aren't requiring anyone to register. But, EU citizens will lose their rights under EU law within the UK on Brexit. The UK is saying "if you want to retain, you are hereby given the option to register."

The suggestion that not giving EU citizens this option would be lawful, whilst giving them it isn't, is just daft.

A silly story.

gilsey wrote:Re registration of EU citizens, Steve Peers view here, apologies if we've already had it.
http://eulawanalysis.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... legal.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As noted already, the UK government’s intention to require EU citizens to register if they come to the UK during the transitional period is consistent with the EU citizens’ Directive, which allows registration for stays longer than three months. Indeed, the Commission has reported that almost all EU states register citizens from other EU Member States. But a failure to register can only be punished by proportionate penalties, not expulsion or detention (see the ECJ ruling in Watson and Bellman, concerning a prior version of this law). According to the ECJ ruling in Huber, Member States may include information on EU citizens in a database, but this can only be used for the purpose of administering EU free movement law; if they put information on EU citizens in a criminal database, they must be treated equally with nationals of that Member State.

The Directive goes on to say that Member States cannot insist that registration certificates must be the sole method of checking entitlement to reside or any other right, since other forms of proving identity are possible; and that Member States can only penalise EU citizens for not carrying their registration certificates if they penalise their own citizens the same way for not carrying ID cards (see also the ECJ judgment in Oulane). It follows that as long as the UK doesn’t have an ID card system, it could not penalise EU citizens for not carrying registration certificates.

“Academies have been promised a level of autonomy and independence beyond that which is realistic within a MAT and have not adjusted to this after becoming part of WCAT. The trust has also failed to set out clear expectations and hold people to account. This has led to a ‘free for all’ with some academies ignoring trust requirements altogether”