Monday 6th November 2017

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refitman
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Monday 6th November 2017

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
PorFavor
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Good morfternoon.
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citizenJA
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Good-morning, everyone
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://cpag.org.uk/content/austerity-ge ... ld-poverty" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/six-key- ... s-children" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
tinybgoat
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by tinybgoat »

https://www.fnlondon.com/articles/barcl ... s-20171106" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Barclays is attempting to overturn a court decision that said the UK banking giant may be liable for more than 100 claims of sexual assault.
PaulfromYorkshire
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.

:roll:
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citizenJA
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Government's initial proposals for scrutiny of Brexit-related delegated legislation inadequate

Committee Chair, Charles Walker OBE [Tory MP for Broxbourne] said:

"The process of enacting over four decades' worth of European legislation into UK domestic law, in little more than 12 months, is one of the greatest legislative challenge Parliament has faced. The Government's current proposals for Parliamentary scrutiny do not go far enough. The task faced by the House is unique and unprecedented, and therefore it needs a scrutiny system that is up to the challenge. I am hopeful that our report will receive a swift and positive response from Government. If necessary, I am prepared to table amendments to the Bill in Committee to make sure this system can work effectively."

- 6 November 2017

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... hed-17-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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citizenJA
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by citizenJA »

The UK government having sent Article 50 document signalling the UK's exit from the EU was a different government from the current UK government.
PorFavor
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PorFavor »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.

:roll:
Interesting . . .
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Shouldn't be forgotten that a lot of the CBI won't be happy with the prospect of a "no deal" Brexit.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by gilsey »

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.

:roll:
UK needs a government that works.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

That would be a start, yes.
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citizenJA
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by citizenJA »

gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.:roll:
UK needs a government that works.
Tory media output currently tension, scandal and confusion
Softens up the population
Hurrah! Good news! We'll only have to endure half of god awful!
NonOxCol
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by NonOxCol »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 41331.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Reminder that Thomas Mair picked up a rifle the same day Farage unveiled his 'Breaking Point' poster.
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citizenJA
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by citizenJA »

Expensive, outmoded and inadequate transportation, energy, housing, education, social care and communications infrastructure, global warming, a kook in the White House, pollution, public service workers considered chattel by Tory government and all the stress these horrific realities create

Brexit - bailing out of decades of largely successful trade and social welfare treaties IS NOT what we need right now
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

citizenJA wrote:
gilsey wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Prime minister speaking now at #CBI2017 - May says that UK needs an economy that works for the future.:roll:
UK needs a government that works.
Tory media output currently tension, scandal and confusion
Softens up the population
Hurrah! Good news! We'll only have to endure half of god awful!
That maybe ascribes a level of competence and foresight to them that they don't actually possess, mind :)
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citizenJA
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by citizenJA »

I'm going to hike up a hill.
I'll come back down soon.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by HindleA »

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 36436.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fox News shows broke UK TV impartiality rules, Ofcom finds
Decision against US channel that is no longer broadcast in UK is seen as setback for Murdoch family’s Sky bid
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-meetings" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Priti Patel apologises for Israel meetings
International development secretary held meetings with Israeli politicians while on a family holiday
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/stat ... riti-patel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tubby Isaacs
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

Hello again. Been online less, but checking on here.

Corbyn's likely falsely accused the Queen of tax avoidance.
Anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things: not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society, because if a very wealthy person wants to avoid taxation in Britain and therefore put money into a tax haven somewhere, who loses? Schools, hospitals, housing, all those public services lose and the rest of the population have to pay to cover up the deficit created by that
I can't see that she's avoided tax. Lots of people from different jurisdictions invest. They're supposed to declare the income when it comes onshore and pay tax. Lots don't, but it's likely the Queen has.

This sort of thing could get you on the wrong end of a libel suit with somebody not the Queen- she doesn't typically sue, hence Murdoch and all can get away with all sorts of rubbish about her.
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by AngryAsWell »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hello again. Been online less, but checking on here.

Corbyn's likely falsely accused the Queen of tax avoidance.
Anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things: not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society, because if a very wealthy person wants to avoid taxation in Britain and therefore put money into a tax haven somewhere, who loses? Schools, hospitals, housing, all those public services lose and the rest of the population have to pay to cover up the deficit created by that
I can't see that she's avoided tax. Lots of people from different jurisdictions invest. They're supposed to declare the income when it comes onshore and pay tax. Lots don't, but it's likely the Queen has.

This sort of thing could get you on the wrong end of a libel suit with somebody not the Queen- she doesn't typically sue, hence Murdoch and all can get away with all sorts of rubbish about her.
Corbyn's clarified statement:
"Jeremy Corbyn’s office has made it clear that he was not saying the Queen should apologise for her offshore investment when he answered a question from the Daily Telegraph at the CBI conference. (See 12.26pm and and 1.04pm.) A spokesman for Corbyn said:

Jeremy did not call for the Queen to apologise but said anyone who puts money into a tax haven to avoid paying tax should, and that they should recognise the damage done by avoidance to society. Labour is calling for a public inquiry into tax avoidance."
AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.

I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.

There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Afternoon

How is Corbyn’s statement anyway libelous to the Queen?

Firstly, he doesn’t mention her and he makes the connection to using tax havens to avoid paying tax

Tubby you then say she probably didn’t avoid tax anyway so in that case it doesn’t apply to her anyway unless she was using this to avoid tax

Rich people avoid tax on an industrial scale and in different ways most of us could. There is often the equating of pensions and ISAs to the use of off-shore trusts and the multitude of schemes set up to move cash from where it is generated to places of low or no tax. I find this approach as an excuse for the behaviour of some individuals and companies

What can be done about it....probably nothing but it shows how we are not all in it together and the rules are made to be exploited
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
It wasn't that careful, seeing he was just asked about her. People who answer different questions to the one just asked bring problems on themselves.

In other news, go and see Sam Gymiah on Facebook, and tell him he's lying about having brought in an extra £160bn from tax avoidance measures.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://fullfact.org/economy/government ... avoidance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

howsillyofme1 wrote:Afternoon

How is Corbyn’s statement anyway libelous to the Queen?

Firstly, he doesn’t mention her and he makes the connection to using tax havens to avoid paying tax

Tubby you then say she probably didn’t avoid tax anyway so in that case it doesn’t apply to her anyway unless she was using this to avoid tax

Rich people avoid tax on an industrial scale and in different ways most of us could. There is often the equating of pensions and ISAs to the use of off-shore trusts and the multitude of schemes set up to move cash from where it is generated to places of low or no tax. I find this approach as an excuse for the behaviour of some individuals and companies

What can be done about it....probably nothing but it shows how we are not all in it together and the rules are made to be exploited
He's clarified that he didn't mean the Queen, even though he was asked about her and I'm sure he was including her in there. He's covered himself promptly though, so no problem now.

He's fine with other stuff here, but it was an avoidable mistake that could snowball. Not because it was the Queen, but because Labour will need to hold the Tory "Remainer" votes he skilfully picked up. I think it needs to look more like it's got this stuff covered.

Public enquiry is a good idea.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by AngryAsWell »

Take your point Tubby. When read in context it is unnecessarily messy

From AS at the G :

He said that anyone making offshore investments to avoid tax in Britain should apologise. He made the comment when asked if he thought the Queen should apologise for having offshore investments. He replied:
Anyone that is putting money into tax havens in order to avoid taxation in Britain, and obviously investigations have to take place, should do two things: not just apologise for it but also recognise what it does to our society, because if a very wealthy person wants to avoid taxation in Britain and therefore put money into a tax haven somewhere, who loses? Schools, hospitals, housing, all those public services lose and the rest of the population have to pay to cover up the deficit created by that ...

We simply have to challenge the culture that there is something clever about avoiding taxation. Taxation is what gives us ambulances, gives us fire tenders, gives us safety in our lives and we all have a responsibility to pay for it.

But it was not clear whether Corbyn was suggesting that the Queen invested offshore to avoid paying tax in the UK; the Duchy of Lancaster, which manages her estate, says it did not invest offshore to avoid tax.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.

I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.

There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
She invests in a tax haven like a lot of rich people. I assume she does it to avoid tax (or be tax efficient as they call it).
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.

I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.

There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
She invests in a tax haven like a lot of rich people. I assume she does it to avoid tax (or be tax efficient as they call it).
She brings the income onshore and pays UK tax, I assume. Same as Cameron did with that offshore investment he had in 2010 (we don't know about all the others he had before, of course). No direct hit to schools and hospitals, though as I say, tax havens are bad for other reasons.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://redbrickblog.wordpress.com/2017 ... -so-wrong/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Land and house prices – the Tories are getting it so wrong
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by GetYou »

Priti big slapdown there. They have stated that she was lying about the Boris part.

[edit: clarification]
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AngryAsWell
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by AngryAsWell »

Jonathan Lis‏
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Following Following @jonlis1
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Back from meetings in Brussels. There's good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Because it's... extremely bad. 1/


Thread - couldn't see any "good news" :(

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PorFavor
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PorFavor »

AngryAsWell wrote:Jonathan Lis‏
@jonlis1
Following Following @jonlis1
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Back from meetings in Brussels. There's good news and bad news. First, the bad news. Because it's... extremely bad. 1/


Thread - couldn't see any "good news" :(

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I couldn't see any good news, either. Maybe the meaning of "good news" has had to be changed (in the "Brexit" context).
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by frog222 »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
It wasn't that careful, seeing he was just asked about her. People who answer different questions to the one just asked bring problems on themselves.

In other news, go and see Sam Gymiah on Facebook, and tell him he's lying about having brought in an extra £160bn from tax avoidance measures.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://fullfact.org/economy/government ... avoidance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the fullfact link . If the govt are including 'savings ' up to 2021/2022, why stop there ? ;-)

I always used to enjoy the Prem Sikka threads on CiF ---

“”A well-resourced and robust HMRC is necessary for challenging the might of the financial elites and their addiction to tax avoidance, but its capacities have been consistently undermined. In April 2005, HMRC had staff of 104,670 and a budget of £4.4bn, compared to a staffing of 61,800 in April 2017 and a budget of £3.8bn.

This is a massive reduction in real terms. Unsurprisingly, HMRC has investigated only 72 high net worth individuals for potential tax fraud since 2011, and there has been only one successful prosecution.“”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ise-papers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found John McD pretty weak on Toady this morning against a serious question from Humphrys on (eventual) control of capital movements.

Ann Pettifor was far better , more forthright !
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by frog222 »

Queen invested millions in offshore tax havens

The Times today . Accusatory ? (if that's English !)
howsillyofme1
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by howsillyofme1 »

Tubby Isaacs wrote:
howsillyofme1 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:If you're asked about the Queen and you go off on one about people avoiding tax and hospitals, then people are likely to think you're talking about the Queen.

I'm frustrated because either he doesn't get tax avoidance/evasion properly, or he's happy to give the wrong impression.

There's no argument that tax havens are bad at all because how the legitimate money helps launder the dark money. I'd have no problem if he criticized the Queen on that score. But pretty heavily implying she avoided tax is sloppy. You have to get this stuff right.
She invests in a tax haven like a lot of rich people. I assume she does it to avoid tax (or be tax efficient as they call it).
She brings the income onshore and pays UK tax, I assume. Same as Cameron did with that offshore investment he had in 2010 (we don't know about all the others he had before, of course). No direct hit to schools and hospitals, though as I say, tax havens are bad for other reasons.
Two different assumptions....... :)
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PorFavor »

[David]Davis says publishing some parts of Brexit impact reports may not be in public interest
Lisa O'Carroll


Brexit secretary David Davis has said it may not be in the “public interest” to publish the government’s analysis of the impact of Brexit on 58 sectors including pharmaceuticals, road haulage and retail. (Politics Live, Guardian)
?
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by HindleA »

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... on-british" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Boris Johnson blunder 'risks five more years in prison for British-Iranian woman'
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

howsillyofme1 wrote:
Two different assumptions....... :)
Yeah, but the Queen being engaged in tax evasion would sure be a story and a half!

Corbyn's clarification did the job, by the look of it. Not even the shifty whatabouterist Tories seem to have banged that drum in the debate, in which Peter Bone tried to make out Labour are avoiding tax by renting a building owned off shore.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PorFavor »

HindleA wrote:https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/fo ... on-british


Boris Johnson blunder 'risks five more years in prison for British-Iranian woman'
He must be able to get a hilarious joke out of that. What a liability the man is.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

frog222 wrote:Queen invested millions in offshore tax havens

The Times today . Accusatory ? (if that's English !)
It's true, and she shouldn't have done. But that doesn't mean she didn't pay full UK tax when the income was brought onshore.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

frog222 wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Corbyn carefully avoided referring to the monarch, didnt he? Of course many in the media are claiming otherwise, but they would find fault with whatever he said.
It wasn't that careful, seeing he was just asked about her. People who answer different questions to the one just asked bring problems on themselves.

In other news, go and see Sam Gymiah on Facebook, and tell him he's lying about having brought in an extra £160bn from tax avoidance measures.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://fullfact.org/economy/government ... avoidance/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Thanks for the fullfact link . If the govt are including 'savings ' up to 2021/2022, why stop there ? ;-)

I always used to enjoy the Prem Sikka threads on CiF ---

“”A well-resourced and robust HMRC is necessary for challenging the might of the financial elites and their addiction to tax avoidance, but its capacities have been consistently undermined. In April 2005, HMRC had staff of 104,670 and a budget of £4.4bn, compared to a staffing of 61,800 in April 2017 and a budget of £3.8bn.

This is a massive reduction in real terms. Unsurprisingly, HMRC has investigated only 72 high net worth individuals for potential tax fraud since 2011, and there has been only one successful prosecution.“”

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ise-papers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I found John McD pretty weak on Toady this morning against a serious question from Humphrys on (eventual) control of capital movements.

Ann Pettifor was far better , more forthright !
Thanks to you too. That seems a low number to investigate. They got a bunch handed to them in leaks.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by Tubby Isaacs »

I don't know if Roger is around- and anybody else, feel free to comment. But Sam Gymiah, as evidence of this anti-avoidance master strategy said this.
" We’ve stopped companies being able to convert their capital losses into trading losses"
Given that losing money on capital transactions is a bad thing, I don't think that it counts as an avoidance strategy, does it? It's like saying "firms are avoiding tax by not selling stuff at a profit".

Sure, it's a technical change that effectively raises the tax take from corporations- the sort of thing that used to be called a "stealth tax" under Gordo, and be a very bad thing. But compare that with all the unneeded cuts to the headline corporation tax rate.

Not so impressive, is it?
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

GetYou wrote:Priti big slapdown there. They have stated that she was lying about the Boris part.

[edit: clarification]
Extremely misleading on her part.

Boris knew about it obv implies that he had prior knowledge, not that she told him afterwards!
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PaulfromYorkshire »

Adam Bienkov‏Verified account @AdamBienkov 2h2 hours ago
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May's spokesman tells me the PM didn't know about Priti Patel's meeting with the Israeli PM until Friday, three months after it took place.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by PorFavor »

Boris Johnson refuses to retract error about Briton detained in Iran, but insists his comment misinterpreted (Politics Live, Guardian)
It seemed pretty clear to me.
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Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by gilsey »

frog222 wrote: “”A well-resourced and robust HMRC is necessary for challenging the might of the financial elites and their addiction to tax avoidance, but its capacities have been consistently undermined. In April 2005, HMRC had staff of 104,670 and a budget of £4.4bn, compared to a staffing of 61,800 in April 2017 and a budget of £3.8bn.

This is a massive reduction in real terms. Unsurprisingly, HMRC has investigated only 72 high net worth individuals for potential tax fraud since 2011, and there has been only one successful prosecution.“”
Shocking numbers all round.

I found John McD pretty weak on Toady this morning against a serious question from Humphrys on (eventual) control of capital movements.

Ann Pettifor was far better , more forthright !
On the whole I'd prefer if JMcD let Ann Pettifor do the talking. He could just say, I agree with Ann, instead of giving the RW media a chance to have a go at him.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 6174
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 10:51 am

Re: Monday 6th November 2017

Post by gilsey »

PorFavor wrote:
Boris Johnson refuses to retract error about Briton detained in Iran, but insists his comment misinterpreted (Politics Live, Guardian)
It seemed pretty clear to me.
To most people I think. That poor woman, and her little one.

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One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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