Wednesday 8th November 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Wednesday 8th November 2017
Morning all.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Please!International development secretary could be ousted from cabinet this morning following further revelations that breach the ministerial code
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Morning all.
Sky News NewsdeskVerified account
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Sky News understands International Development Secretary Priti Patel is travelling back to London having cut short a trip to Africa
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Beth RigbyVerified account @BethRigby 47s47 seconds ago
Update; Priti Patel currently enroute back to London “at request of PM”
Update; Priti Patel currently enroute back to London “at request of PM”
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/ma ... -1-4607423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Good morfternoon.
Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are-be-hit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/07/polit ... 14PMVODtop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... nda-ardern" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/10102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Recessions, income inequality and the role of the tax and benefit system
Recessions, income inequality and the role of the tax and benefit system
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Fourteen (and counting?) "genuine mistakes".Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP and, like Priti Patel, a prominent Vote Leave supporter, told the Today programme this morning that Patel had made “a genuine mistake”. (Politics Live, Guardian)
That's fourteen more "mistakes" than there are "Brexit" impact assessments.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
I mentioned it last nigth but if you haven't seen it then his Newsnight appearance is a thing of beauty.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
He has no principles at all, let's hope being on the wrong side of this one does for his career too.Stagger Lee wrote:I mentioned it last nigth but if you haven't seen it then his Newsnight appearance is a thing of beauty.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... t-07112017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Oh good.
'No coloureds' landlord taken to court by UK equality watchdog
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... y-watchdog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'No coloureds' landlord taken to court by UK equality watchdog
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... y-watchdog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
15 now, apparently omitted to mention a visit to the Golan Heights.PorFavor wrote:Fourteen (and counting?) "genuine mistakes".Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP and, like Priti Patel, a prominent Vote Leave supporter, told the Today programme this morning that Patel had made “a genuine mistake”. (Politics Live, Guardian)
That's fourteen more "mistakes" than there are "Brexit" impact assessments.
The diplomatic protocol is that British ministers and senior officials do not travel in the Golan
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.ft.com/content/e8eb1b42-c2e ... c1c7c13aab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Universal credit: why the numbers don’t add up
‘Universal discredit’ would be a better name for flawed welfare reform
PAUL LEWIS
Chancellor Philip Hammond is under growing pressure ahead of the Budget to reverse some of the cuts to universal credit, the government’s much criticised welfare reform. Politicians promised that combining six benefits into one would “make work pay”, but flaws in the system are so deeply embedded that making significant changes will be hard work.
The Delay
The six-week delay between claiming universal credit and the first payment being received has attracted the most media attention, and is the top candidate for change. In fact, the delay is more than six weeks and administrative errors can make it a lot longer.
Once a claim is made, there are seven days before it is considered. These are called “waiting days” and also apply to other working age benefits. This was extended from three days by George Osborne in October 2014 to save £275m a year.
After the waiting days, there is a consideration period of one calendar month which adds as many as 31 days (the average is 30.4).
Then there is another seven-day wait until the first payment is actually made. So the average delay is 44.4 days — nearly six and a half weeks.
That month-long consideration period is supposed to parallel the world of work where politicians imagine wages are always paid monthly in arrears. However, research by the Resolution Foundation found that was not true for most universal credit claimants.
In fact, 47 per cent of them had been paid weekly, and a further 11 per cent fortnightly. For new claimants, moving to a 44- or 45-day wait will be extremely difficult, increasing the risk of taking out expensive short-term debt. Resolution found that only one in seven claimants had savings of more than one month’s pay to tide them over.
Even Iain Duncan Smith, the architect behind the reforms, has called for changes in the waiting time.
The Taper
One of the main claims for universal credit is that it will make work pay. But every extra pound that is earned reduces the amount of benefit which is paid. The amount that families with children and some others can earn before other benefits are reduced has been cut this year to £192 per month. For others, the taper starts with the first pound earned.
Once the limit is reached, claimants will lose 63p of every extra pound earned — an effective marginal tax rate of 63 per cent. In fact, most claimants lose more.
Universal credit excludes a seventh means-tested benefit called Council Tax Support (CTS). That is paid by local authorities and reduces council tax bills for low-income households. CTS is withdrawn at the rate of 20p per pound of extra income, applied after universal credit is worked out. That raises the marginal rate of tax to 70p in the pound for the 55 per cent of universal credit claimants who get help with their housing costs.
If claimants are in work, the withdrawal rate could be even higher after national insurance and income tax are factored in. The NI threshold applies to weekly pay of £157 or more, and that 12 per cent deduction boosts the marginal tax rate to 74 per cent if CTS is also claimed.
Someone who earns more than £221 a week will also pay 20 per cent income tax, raising their marginal tax rate to 80 per cent if they also claim CTS. In a few English districts where the CTS taper is 30 per cent, the marginal tax is even higher at 82.4 per cent. In these areas, universal credit claimants keep just 17.6p in every extra pound they earn. This hardly makes work pay!
Some people say that the withdrawal of benefits is not the same as a tax. Yet the chancellor Philip Hammond disagrees. When he announced a cut in the universal credit taper rate from 65 to 63 per cent at the Autumn Statement a year ago, he said he was “cutting tax for 3m families on low incomes”.
Universal credit: why the numbers don’t add up
‘Universal discredit’ would be a better name for flawed welfare reform
PAUL LEWIS
Chancellor Philip Hammond is under growing pressure ahead of the Budget to reverse some of the cuts to universal credit, the government’s much criticised welfare reform. Politicians promised that combining six benefits into one would “make work pay”, but flaws in the system are so deeply embedded that making significant changes will be hard work.
The Delay
The six-week delay between claiming universal credit and the first payment being received has attracted the most media attention, and is the top candidate for change. In fact, the delay is more than six weeks and administrative errors can make it a lot longer.
Once a claim is made, there are seven days before it is considered. These are called “waiting days” and also apply to other working age benefits. This was extended from three days by George Osborne in October 2014 to save £275m a year.
After the waiting days, there is a consideration period of one calendar month which adds as many as 31 days (the average is 30.4).
Then there is another seven-day wait until the first payment is actually made. So the average delay is 44.4 days — nearly six and a half weeks.
That month-long consideration period is supposed to parallel the world of work where politicians imagine wages are always paid monthly in arrears. However, research by the Resolution Foundation found that was not true for most universal credit claimants.
In fact, 47 per cent of them had been paid weekly, and a further 11 per cent fortnightly. For new claimants, moving to a 44- or 45-day wait will be extremely difficult, increasing the risk of taking out expensive short-term debt. Resolution found that only one in seven claimants had savings of more than one month’s pay to tide them over.
Even Iain Duncan Smith, the architect behind the reforms, has called for changes in the waiting time.
The Taper
One of the main claims for universal credit is that it will make work pay. But every extra pound that is earned reduces the amount of benefit which is paid. The amount that families with children and some others can earn before other benefits are reduced has been cut this year to £192 per month. For others, the taper starts with the first pound earned.
Once the limit is reached, claimants will lose 63p of every extra pound earned — an effective marginal tax rate of 63 per cent. In fact, most claimants lose more.
Universal credit excludes a seventh means-tested benefit called Council Tax Support (CTS). That is paid by local authorities and reduces council tax bills for low-income households. CTS is withdrawn at the rate of 20p per pound of extra income, applied after universal credit is worked out. That raises the marginal rate of tax to 70p in the pound for the 55 per cent of universal credit claimants who get help with their housing costs.
If claimants are in work, the withdrawal rate could be even higher after national insurance and income tax are factored in. The NI threshold applies to weekly pay of £157 or more, and that 12 per cent deduction boosts the marginal tax rate to 74 per cent if CTS is also claimed.
Someone who earns more than £221 a week will also pay 20 per cent income tax, raising their marginal tax rate to 80 per cent if they also claim CTS. In a few English districts where the CTS taper is 30 per cent, the marginal tax is even higher at 82.4 per cent. In these areas, universal credit claimants keep just 17.6p in every extra pound they earn. This hardly makes work pay!
Some people say that the withdrawal of benefits is not the same as a tax. Yet the chancellor Philip Hammond disagrees. When he announced a cut in the universal credit taper rate from 65 to 63 per cent at the Autumn Statement a year ago, he said he was “cutting tax for 3m families on low incomes”.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
I replied to someone on Twitter about this. It's quite ridiculous. Patel and Johnson were both excruciating well before (long before in the latter case) the Referendum.PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.
Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Number crunching
Universal credit has undergone various arithmetic fiddles in order to save money. Here are some of the most egregious examples:
When calculating housing benefit, the rent paid will be understated if it is above the bottom 30 per cent of rents locally (as calculated at April 2016 and then frozen until 2020). It will also be reduced if there are too many bedrooms.
18-21 year olds will not normally get anything for housing, saving £35m a year.
A premium paid to families worth more than £10 a week was scrapped from April 2017 saving £410m a year.
The number of children that count may be limited to two from November 2018 — which would produce an overall annual saving £700m.
The total benefit paid may not exceed a reduced cap — the annual saving from this reduction alone is £360m in 2018/19.
The rates of universal credit benefits have been frozen from April 2016 until April 2020, despite inflation currently running at 3 per cent a year. This is projected to save about £4bn a year.
Taking these factors into account, universal credit is a benefit for which the phrase “not fit for purpose” could have been coined.
Universal credit has undergone various arithmetic fiddles in order to save money. Here are some of the most egregious examples:
When calculating housing benefit, the rent paid will be understated if it is above the bottom 30 per cent of rents locally (as calculated at April 2016 and then frozen until 2020). It will also be reduced if there are too many bedrooms.
18-21 year olds will not normally get anything for housing, saving £35m a year.
A premium paid to families worth more than £10 a week was scrapped from April 2017 saving £410m a year.
The number of children that count may be limited to two from November 2018 — which would produce an overall annual saving £700m.
The total benefit paid may not exceed a reduced cap — the annual saving from this reduction alone is £360m in 2018/19.
The rates of universal credit benefits have been frozen from April 2016 until April 2020, despite inflation currently running at 3 per cent a year. This is projected to save about £4bn a year.
Taking these factors into account, universal credit is a benefit for which the phrase “not fit for purpose” could have been coined.
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
If this is true....
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/no-1 ... s-1.447605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no-10-knew-about-priti-patel-israel-meetings
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/no-1 ... s-1.447605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no-10-knew-about-priti-patel-israel-meetings
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Do these peoploe never learn from history. Getting caught is bad enough but ham fisted cover ups are what will do for you in the end.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:If this is true....
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/no-1 ... s-1.447605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no-10-knew-about-priti-patel-israel-meetings
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Bad election night for the GOP over the pond, not before time tbh.
The Donald apparently tweeting it was all the fault of their candidates for not following his brilliant "unbeatable" strategy
The Donald apparently tweeting it was all the fault of their candidates for not following his brilliant "unbeatable" strategy
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... n-virginia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Folk on Twitter pointing out that the BBC is, as ever, talking about "controversy" over the Israel meetings.
Who have they found that thinks she was right to do it?
Is there actually a "controversy"?
Who have they found that thinks she was right to do it?
Is there actually a "controversy"?
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
http://www.dw.com/en/research-shows-she ... a-41289357" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Research shows sheep can learn to recognize faces
Research shows sheep can learn to recognize faces
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/s ... -1-4607454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Scottish Tories call on Theresa May’s Government to change Brexit Bill
Scottish Tories call on Theresa May’s Government to change Brexit Bill
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Its the go-to word of the "balance means giving equal billing to truth and falsehood" tendency.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Folk on Twitter pointing out that the BBC is, as ever, talking about "controversy" over the Israel meetings.
Who have they found that thinks she was right to do it?
Is there actually a "controversy"?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12317/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Brexit, Trump, and ‘methodological whiteness’: on the misrecognition of race and class
Brexit, Trump, and ‘methodological whiteness’: on the misrecognition of race and class
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/24584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Twice as many people in Northern Ireland losing their disability benefit compared to GB
Twice as many people in Northern Ireland losing their disability benefit compared to GB
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Never changed my view that this was ridiculous pandering and over-reaction, a la Gillian Duffy, and even more so when set against the blatant (laughed off) racism of Johnson, for example.
White Van Flag Man already gets far too *much* respect, particularly after he swung the bloody referendum and helped turn the Tories into UKIP.
Never changed my view that this was ridiculous pandering and over-reaction, a la Gillian Duffy, and even more so when set against the blatant (laughed off) racism of Johnson, for example.
White Van Flag Man already gets far too *much* respect, particularly after he swung the bloody referendum and helped turn the Tories into UKIP.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Isnlt modern technology marveelous. We can actually countdown to the arrival of Priti patel because we know what plane she is on. it is currently over Greece.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ ... /HKJK/EGLL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. ?
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
We can blame the likes of John Mann bellowing in Ed M's ear that he had to SACK THORNBERRY NOW.NonOxCol wrote:
Never changed my view that this was ridiculous pandering and over-reaction, a la Gillian Duffy, and even more so when set against the blatant (laughed off) racism of Johnson, for example.
White Van Flag Man already gets far too *much* respect, particularly after he swung the bloody referendum and helped turn the Tories into UKIP.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Stagger Lee wrote:Isnlt modern technology marveelous. We can actually countdown to the arrival of Priti patel because we know what plane she is on. it is currently over Greece.
@lisatozzi 4m
Replying to @stuartmillar159 @jimwaterson and 2 others
You know, I'm waiting for the point when she locks herself in a toilet and reporters start banging on the door.
View conversation ·
Is anybody there?
@gudnameztaken 4m
Replying to @MarkDiStef @JakubKrupa
Full coverage: “She was offered chicken or fish, and went for fish. Had a Diet Coke, did a little trump but blamed it on the air pressure”
Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Trump's under suspicion of colluding with the Russians, while Theresa May is under suspicion of colluding with her own development minister.
Trump definitely does things more bigly, but May could yet beat him to the door.
Trump definitely does things more bigly, but May could yet beat him to the door.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://sirhenrybrooke.me/2017/11/08/po ... p-appeals/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Poor decision-making, Personal Independence Payments (PIPs) and PIP appeals
BY HENRY BROOKE
Poor decision-making, Personal Independence Payments (PIPs) and PIP appeals
BY HENRY BROOKE
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
[youtube]DkGR65CXaNA[/youtube]tinybgoat wrote:" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Stagger Lee wrote:Isnlt modern technology marveelous. We can actually countdown to the arrival of Priti patel because we know what plane she is on. it is currently over Greece.
@lisatozzi 4m
Replying to @stuartmillar159 @jimwaterson and 2 others
You know, I'm waiting for the point when she locks herself in a toilet and reporters start banging on the door.
View conversation ·
Is anybody there?
@gudnameztaken 4m
Replying to @MarkDiStef @JakubKrupa
Full coverage: “She was offered chicken or fish, and went for fish. Had a Diet Coke, did a little trump but blamed it on the air pressure”
Last edited by Stagger Lee on Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/housing-net ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
See above,or indeed below.
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Ahh so that's how you do it!HindleA wrote:[youtube]DkGR65CXaNA[/youtube]
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
SL.have sent PM.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
PF has "workmen in her house doing some alterations",so "otherwise occupied".
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
That could certainly be true - but for the moment it is just an allegation made by Stephen Pollard, thus worth treating with scepticism for that reason alone.Willow904 wrote:Trump's under suspicion of colluding with the Russians, while Theresa May is under suspicion of colluding with her own development minister.
Trump definitely does things more bigly, but May could yet beat him to the door.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
What do you have to do to get sacked from government? – quiz
What do you have to do to get sacked from government? – quiz
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Roger Helmer really like Priti
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... extra-cash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ent-claims" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41776369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The families living in modern day slums
The families living in modern day slums
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
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Re: Wednesday 8th November 2017
Last edited by HindleA on Wed 08 Nov, 2017 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.