Wednesday 8th November 2017

Post by **refitman** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 7:10 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 7:24 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... itics-live" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

International development secretary could be ousted from cabinet this morning following further revelations that breach the ministerial code

Please!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 8:14 am

Morning all.

Sky News Newsdesk‏Verified account
@SkyNewsBreak
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Sky News understands International Development Secretary Priti Patel is travelling back to London having cut short a trip to Africa

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 8:31 am

Beth Rigby‏Verified account @BethRigby 47s47 seconds ago

Update; Priti Patel currently enroute back to London “at request of PM”

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:19 am

http://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/ma ... -1-4607423" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:22 am

Good morfternoon.

Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:30 am

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... are-be-hit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:37 am

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/11/07/polit ... 14PMVODtop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:42 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... nda-ardern" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:44 am

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/10102" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Recessions, income inequality and the role of the tax and benefit system

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:50 am

Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP and, like Priti Patel, a prominent Vote Leave supporter, told the Today programme this morning that Patel had made “a genuine mistake”. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Fourteen (and counting?) "genuine mistakes".

That's fourteen more "mistakes" than there are "Brexit" impact assessments.

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 9:57 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)

I mentioned it last nigth but if you haven't seen it then his Newsnight appearance is a thing of beauty.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:00 am

Stagger Lee wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)
I mentioned it last nigth but if you haven't seen it then his Newsnight appearance is a thing of beauty.

He has no principles at all, let's hope being on the wrong side of this one does for his career too.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:00 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b ... t-07112017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:02 am

Oh good.
'No coloureds' landlord taken to court by UK equality watchdog
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... y-watchdog" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:04 am

PorFavor wrote:
Bernard Jenkin, the Conservative MP and, like Priti Patel, a prominent Vote Leave supporter, told the Today programme this morning that Patel had made “a genuine mistake”. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Fourteen (and counting?) "genuine mistakes".

That's fourteen more "mistakes" than there are "Brexit" impact assessments.

15 now, apparently omitted to mention a visit to the Golan Heights.

The diplomatic protocol is that British ministers and senior officials do not travel in the Golan

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:24 am

https://www.ft.com/content/e8eb1b42-c2e ... c1c7c13aab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Universal credit: why the numbers don’t add up

‘Universal discredit’ would be a better name for flawed welfare reform
PAUL LEWIS

Chancellor Philip Hammond is under growing pressure ahead of the Budget to reverse some of the cuts to universal credit, the government’s much criticised welfare reform. Politicians promised that combining six benefits into one would “make work pay”, but flaws in the system are so deeply embedded that making significant changes will be hard work.

The Delay
The six-week delay between claiming universal credit and the first payment being received has attracted the most media attention, and is the top candidate for change. In fact, the delay is more than six weeks and administrative errors can make it a lot longer.

Once a claim is made, there are seven days before it is considered. These are called “waiting days” and also apply to other working age benefits. This was extended from three days by George Osborne in October 2014 to save £275m a year.

After the waiting days, there is a consideration period of one calendar month which adds as many as 31 days (the average is 30.4).

Then there is another seven-day wait until the first payment is actually made. So the average delay is 44.4 days — nearly six and a half weeks.

That month-long consideration period is supposed to parallel the world of work where politicians imagine wages are always paid monthly in arrears. However, research by the Resolution Foundation found that was not true for most universal credit claimants.

In fact, 47 per cent of them had been paid weekly, and a further 11 per cent fortnightly. For new claimants, moving to a 44- or 45-day wait will be extremely difficult, increasing the risk of taking out expensive short-term debt. Resolution found that only one in seven claimants had savings of more than one month’s pay to tide them over.

Even Iain Duncan Smith, the architect behind the reforms, has called for changes in the waiting time.

The Taper
One of the main claims for universal credit is that it will make work pay. But every extra pound that is earned reduces the amount of benefit which is paid. The amount that families with children and some others can earn before other benefits are reduced has been cut this year to £192 per month. For others, the taper starts with the first pound earned.

Once the limit is reached, claimants will lose 63p of every extra pound earned — an effective marginal tax rate of 63 per cent. In fact, most claimants lose more.

Universal credit excludes a seventh means-tested benefit called Council Tax Support (CTS). That is paid by local authorities and reduces council tax bills for low-income households. CTS is withdrawn at the rate of 20p per pound of extra income, applied after universal credit is worked out. That raises the marginal rate of tax to 70p in the pound for the 55 per cent of universal credit claimants who get help with their housing costs.

If claimants are in work, the withdrawal rate could be even higher after national insurance and income tax are factored in. The NI threshold applies to weekly pay of £157 or more, and that 12 per cent deduction boosts the marginal tax rate to 74 per cent if CTS is also claimed.

Someone who earns more than £221 a week will also pay 20 per cent income tax, raising their marginal tax rate to 80 per cent if they also claim CTS. In a few English districts where the CTS taper is 30 per cent, the marginal tax is even higher at 82.4 per cent. In these areas, universal credit claimants keep just 17.6p in every extra pound they earn. This hardly makes work pay!

Some people say that the withdrawal of benefits is not the same as a tax. Yet the chancellor Philip Hammond disagrees. When he announced a cut in the universal credit taper rate from 65 to 63 per cent at the Autumn Statement a year ago, he said he was “cutting tax for 3m families on low incomes”.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:27 am

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Nadhim Zahawi, a member of the foreign affairs committee and, like Patel, an enthusiastic Brexiter, said the campaign against her was all a plot go up by remoaners. (Politics Live, Guardian)

I replied to someone on Twitter about this. It's quite ridiculous. Patel and Johnson were both excruciating well before (long before in the latter case) the Referendum.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:28 am

Number crunching
Universal credit has undergone various arithmetic fiddles in order to save money. Here are some of the most egregious examples:

When calculating housing benefit, the rent paid will be understated if it is above the bottom 30 per cent of rents locally (as calculated at April 2016 and then frozen until 2020). It will also be reduced if there are too many bedrooms.
18-21 year olds will not normally get anything for housing, saving £35m a year.
A premium paid to families worth more than £10 a week was scrapped from April 2017 saving £410m a year.
The number of children that count may be limited to two from November 2018 — which would produce an overall annual saving £700m.
The total benefit paid may not exceed a reduced cap — the annual saving from this reduction alone is £360m in 2018/19.
The rates of universal credit benefits have been frozen from April 2016 until April 2020, despite inflation currently running at 3 per cent a year. This is projected to save about £4bn a year.
Taking these factors into account, universal credit is a benefit for which the phrase “not fit for purpose” could have been coined.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:30 am

If this is true....

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/no-1 ... s-1.447605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no-10-knew-about-priti-patel-israel-meetings

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:41 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:If this is true....

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/no-1 ... s-1.447605" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

no-10-knew-about-priti-patel-israel-meetings

Do these peoploe never learn from history. Getting caught is bad enough but ham fisted cover ups are what will do for you in the end.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:42 am

Bad election night for the GOP over the pond, not before time tbh.

The Donald apparently tweeting it was all the fault of their candidates for not following his brilliant "unbeatable" strategy

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:54 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... n-virginia" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 10:57 am

Folk on Twitter pointing out that the BBC is, as ever, talking about "controversy" over the Israel meetings.

Who have they found that thinks she was right to do it?

Is there actually a "controversy"?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 11:00 am

http://www.dw.com/en/research-shows-she ... a-41289357" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Research shows sheep can learn to recognize faces

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 11:08 am

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/s ... -1-4607454" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scottish Tories call on Theresa May’s Government to change Brexit Bill

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 11:12 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Folk on Twitter pointing out that the BBC is, as ever, talking about "controversy" over the Israel meetings.

Who have they found that thinks she was right to do it?

Is there actually a "controversy"?

Its the go-to word of the "balance means giving equal billing to truth and falsehood" tendency.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 11:13 am

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 12317/full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brexit, Trump, and ‘methodological whiteness’: on the misrecognition of race and class

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 11:34 am

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/node/24584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Twice as many people in Northern Ireland losing their disability benefit compared to GB

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 11:44 am

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Never changed my view that this was ridiculous pandering and over-reaction, a la Gillian Duffy, and even more so when set against the blatant (laughed off) racism of Johnson, for example.

White Van Flag Man already gets far too *much* respect, particularly after he swung the bloody referendum and helped turn the Tories into UKIP.

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:11 pm

Isnlt modern technology marveelous. We can actually countdown to the arrival of Priti patel because we know what plane she is on. it is currently over Greece.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:23 pm

https://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/ ... /HKJK/EGLL" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. ?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:27 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

Never changed my view that this was ridiculous pandering and over-reaction, a la Gillian Duffy, and even more so when set against the blatant (laughed off) racism of Johnson, for example.

White Van Flag Man already gets far too *much* respect, particularly after he swung the bloody referendum and helped turn the Tories into UKIP.

We can blame the likes of John Mann bellowing in Ed M's ear that he had to SACK THORNBERRY NOW.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:34 pm

Stagger Lee wrote:Isnlt modern technology marveelous. We can actually countdown to the arrival of Priti patel because we know what plane she is on. it is currently over Greece.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@lisatozzi 4m
Replying to @stuartmillar159 @jimwaterson and 2 others
You know, I'm waiting for the point when she locks herself in a toilet and reporters start banging on the door.
View conversation ·
Is anybody there?
@gudnameztaken 4m
Replying to @MarkDiStef @JakubKrupa
Full coverage: “She was offered chicken or fish, and went for fish. Had a Diet Coke, did a little trump but blamed it on the air pressure”

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:34 pm

Trump's under suspicion of colluding with the Russians, while Theresa May is under suspicion of colluding with her own development minister.

Trump definitely does things more bigly, but May could yet beat him to the door.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:43 pm

https://sirhenrybrooke.me/2017/11/08/po ... p-appeals/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Poor decision-making, Personal Independence Payments (PIPs) and PIP appeals
BY HENRY BROOKE

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:49 pm

tinybgoat wrote:
Stagger Lee wrote:Isnlt modern technology marveelous. We can actually countdown to the arrival of Priti patel because we know what plane she is on. it is currently over Greece.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

@lisatozzi 4m
Replying to @stuartmillar159 @jimwaterson and 2 others
You know, I'm waiting for the point when she locks herself in a toilet and reporters start banging on the door.
View conversation ·
Is anybody there?
@gudnameztaken 4m
Replying to @MarkDiStef @JakubKrupa
Full coverage: “She was offered chicken or fish, and went for fish. Had a Diet Coke, did a little trump but blamed it on the air pressure”

[youtube]DkGR65CXaNA[/youtube]

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:50 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/housing-net ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:51 pm

See above,or indeed below.

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:51 pm

HindleA wrote:[youtube]DkGR65CXaNA[/youtube]

Ahh so that's how you do it!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 12:59 pm

SL.have sent PM.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:10 pm

PF has "workmen in her house doing some alterations",so "otherwise occupied".

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:11 pm

Willow904 wrote:Trump's under suspicion of colluding with the Russians, while Theresa May is under suspicion of colluding with her own development minister.

Trump definitely does things more bigly, but May could yet beat him to the door.

That could certainly be true - but for the moment it is just an allegation made by Stephen Pollard, thus worth treating with scepticism for that reason alone.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:27 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What do you have to do to get sacked from government? – quiz

Stagger Lee · Post by **Stagger Lee** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:40 pm

Roger Helmer really like Priti

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:49 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... extra-cash" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:49 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ent-claims" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:56 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41776369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The families living in modern day slums

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 1:59 pm

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Wed 08 Nov, 2017 2:15 pm

https://www.flightradar24.com/KQA100/f76cdcf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

PTO