Saturday 11th & Sunday 12th November 2017

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 7:52 am

Morning

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... byelection" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Citizenship crisis: John Alexander resigns and triggers byelection
The Turnbull government faces losing its majority after Bennelong MP confirms he is a dual British national

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:07 am

https://wearelumos.org/content/children-behind-wall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The Children Behind The Wall"

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:08 am

Good morfternoon.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:28 am

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... leric-plot" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ex- Trump aide Flynn investigated over plot to kidnap Turkish dissident – report
Flynn reportedly involved in alleged plan to abduct cleric Fethullah Gülen
Robert Mueller believed to have enough evidence to bring charges

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:31 am

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... CMP=twt_gu" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Open the doors and let these books in' - what would a truly diverse reading list look like?
Following student calls for university English literature syllabuses to be ‘decolonised’, Hanif Kureishi, Arundhati Roy, Kamila Shamsie and other authors reflect on the debate and choose essential books by black and minority ethnic writers

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:35 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41684812" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Buying and renting: Your biggest financial decision - in 10 charts

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:38 am

(Every consideration of over a tenner is major financial decision,to be honest.)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:40 am

Right that's my quota.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 9:38 am

Tony Blair doesn't like being called a 'Centrist Dad'

Morning Hugo

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:31 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Tony Blair doesn't like being called a 'Centrist Dad'

Morning Hugo

You just read the headline, not the interview

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/to ... .rjxMROvKk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:00 am

SpinningHugo wrote: You just read the headline, not the interview

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/to ... .rjxMROvKk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah, so now the CD tendency know what that is like

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:08 am

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... neoliberal" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

“Centrist dads are middle-aged men who cannot come to terms with the world and politics changing.” You know the type: Labour’s lurch to the left physically pains them, to the point that they almost voted Conservative in the last election, yet still they get very upset whenever anyone calls them a Tory in response.

Having read the Tony Blair article, thought I'd better check definition, (Blair's definition of centrist seems more like pragmatist & 'pragmatist pater' doesn't really seem to do it.)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 12:00 pm

Happy birthday to mbc1955,if viewing,others can pass message on.(congratulations exempt.from quota system)

Post by **refitman** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 12:21 pm

Oops, Boris telling porkies again.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 12:42 pm

Boris bites again

Blundering Boris Johnson infuriates Spanish after saying bid to ban bullfighting is wrong
The Foreign Secretary shockingly told a dinner to celebrate Anglo-Spanish relations that trying to ban the cruel sport was “political correctness gone mad”

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/b ... 503136.amp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 12:45 pm

refitman wrote:Oops, Boris telling porkies again.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of the few decent Observer journalists these days.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 1:08 pm

'Teachers will only have real autonomy when the government allows them to say no to the latest stupid fad'

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... llows-them" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 1:26 pm

May humiliates herself at the eleventh hour
matthew parris

Trying to enshrine in law the time of our departure from the EU is nonsense and exposes the vacuum of her leadership

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/may- ... 2a1466c9a1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 1:53 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:'Teachers will only have real autonomy when the government allows them to say no to the latest stupid fad'

https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/br ... llows-them" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Quite. As if to prove a point...

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/government-de ... urriculum/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In a letter to education professionals, seen by Schools Week, the new academies minister Lord Agnew has set out plans to develop new “resources and guidance” for teachers.

This new “curriculum” will assist school staff in promoting fundamental British values and “building pupils’ resilience to extremist ideologies”, Agnew says.

This will be done via existing subjects. For example, the chronological teaching of British history can help “foster integration” and history lessons can teach pupils about the evolution of parliamentary democracy and religious tolerance, Agnew says.

Other subjects affected include RE, PSHE and citizenship.

The move follows calls from a senior government official, Dame Louise Casey, for the promotion of British laws, history and values within the core school curriculum.

So long as teachers have to do what DfE - and Ofsted which will end up inspecting schools having done this - tells them, then any talk of "liberating teachers" is just the usual Gibb nonsense.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 3:17 pm

HindleA wrote:Happy birthday to mbc1955,if viewing,others can pass message on.(congratulations exempt.from quota system)

Happy Birthday, mbc1955!

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 3:19 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 6:13 pm

And now its good evening........if anybody is there??

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 6:13 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/global/comm ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

We’ll never stop Brexit or Trump until we address the anger fuelling both
Jonathan Freedland

There's some interesting points in this article, but this bit is the bit I have a real problem with:

Brexit would not have passed without the backing of well-off shire Tories, just as Trump would have lost without the backing of traditional, well-heeled Republicans. But, for the sake of argument, let’s focus on the demographic regarded as decisive: the white voters of those small towns left behind by globalisation, if not modernity itself.

For the sake of argument, why not focus on the motivations of the largest group of supporters? Surely persuading the bulk of leave voters, rather than a small minority of leave voters, would be more helpful when trying to win a consensus to abandon Brexit?

Leave voters were more likely to own their own home and be retired. Are we certain the small towns that have struggled post-industrialisation have different leave voters than the Tory shires? Or have the young and outward looking moved from these towns to the city, whilst the older retired conservatives moved out of the city to the shires?

Similarly the whole debate about qualifications. Far more people are educated to degree level these days. Does the fact remain voters are more likely to have a degree actually tell us anything meaningful, or does it simply reflect what we already know? That remain voters were younger.

I'm not saying the "left behind" arguments are necessarily wrong. Rather, there is little in the way of facts that confirm they are right. Anecdote isn't fact. My anecdote is go to the well-heeled provincial city of Wells if you want to meet, and therefore understand, leave voters - there's plenty of them there, too.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 6:25 pm

Yes. Plenty of 'affluent eurosceptics' in this North Yorkshire village too, but journalists don't seem to have anything to say about them.
Much easier to roll out the usual cliches about the 'left behind', who have far more justification in voting for change, any change, imo.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 7:20 pm

gilsey wrote:Yes. Plenty of 'affluent eurosceptics' in this North Yorkshire village too, but journalists don't seem to have anything to say about them.
Much easier to roll out the usual cliches about the 'left behind', who have far more justification in voting for change, any change, imo.

Yes, that's the weirdness of it. The vast majority of leave voters appear to be older, socially conservative and inward looking. They seem to be trying to return to earlier certainties not upend them. For instance they tend to be against immigration, which they see as bringing unwanted change to their communities. Journalists describe the EU as the status quo and Brexit as a reaction against the status quo. But it could be that the EU isn't seen as the status quo, rather the status quo is the ordered world of the past, before the Euro, before the accession of the old Soviet bloc states, that the uncertainties of change are being rejected in favour of a familiar past. The absolute conviction of leave voters that everything will be OK can only conceivably come, to my mind, from the idea that we got on fine before we joined. For them, that past world still exists, it's the status quo we revert to when the EU future is rejected. Instead of a step forward into the unknown, into an abyss of half formed Brexit ideas, for them it's actually a step back, a step away from the brink of the EU's brave new world of a more federal, more fluid, less nationalist Europe.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:02 pm

Boris Johnson met ‘London professor’ linked to FBI’s Russia investigation
Fresh questions as photograph emerges of Joseph Mifsud and foreign secretary at Brexit dinner

"This development comes less than a week after Johnson denied meeting the professor, and at a time when concern is growing about possible Russian interference in the Brexit campaign, in which the foreign secretary played a crucial role."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:14 pm

Tesco has defended its Christmas advert after it came under fire for featuring a Muslim family.

The festive short film follows a string of families celebrating Christmas Day as they prepare dinner, pull crackers and feast on leftovers.

https://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tv ... 87416.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:19 pm

‘We can't be quiet’: Gruffalo co-creator and fellow illustrators respond to Brexit
Axel Scheffler among children’s illustrators across EU to channel ‘anger and sadness and disbelief’ into gallery of images

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 8:25 pm

Willow904 wrote:----
The absolute conviction of leave voters that everything will be OK can only conceivably come, to my mind, from the idea that we got on fine before we joined. For them, that past world still exists, it's the status quo we revert to when the EU future is rejected. Instead of a step forward into the unknown, into an abyss of half formed Brexit ideas, for them it's actually a step back, a step away from the brink of the EU's brave new world of a more federal, more fluid, less nationalist Europe.

(cJA edit)

UK's relationship with the EU works so well we're not aware of how much we depend upon the interdependent connections created through decades

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 9:06 pm

citizenJA wrote:
Willow904 wrote:----
The absolute conviction of leave voters that everything will be OK can only conceivably come, to my mind, from the idea that we got on fine before we joined. For them, that past world still exists, it's the status quo we revert to when the EU future is rejected. Instead of a step forward into the unknown, into an abyss of half formed Brexit ideas, for them it's actually a step back, a step away from the brink of the EU's brave new world of a more federal, more fluid, less nationalist Europe.
(cJA edit)

UK's relationship with the EU works so well we're not aware of how much we depend upon the interdependent connections created through decades

If your view of the EU is shaped by the negative tabloid narrative of unwanted immigration and pointless rules about bendy bananas, it's easy to see why many people can feel we would be better off without it. After all, what has the EU ever done for us?!

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ben-bro ... 62756.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 9:09 pm

AngryAsWell wrote:Tesco has defended its Christmas advert after it came under fire for featuring a Muslim family.

The festive short film follows a string of families celebrating Christmas Day as they prepare dinner, pull crackers and feast on leftovers.

https://www.standard.co.uk/stayingin/tv ... 87416.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"The trouble with Muslims is they don't integrate and behave like us"
"Hey, you can't show them celebrating Christmas like we do..."

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 9:17 pm

[youtube]Qc7HmhrgTuQ[/youtube]

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 9:26 pm

Willow904 wrote:
gilsey wrote:Yes. Plenty of 'affluent eurosceptics' in this North Yorkshire village too, but journalists don't seem to have anything to say about them.
Much easier to roll out the usual cliches about the 'left behind', who have far more justification in voting for change, any change, imo.
Yes, that's the weirdness of it. The vast majority of leave voters appear to be older, socially conservative and inward looking. They seem to be trying to return to earlier certainties not upend them. For instance they tend to be against immigration, which they see as bringing unwanted change to their communities. Journalists describe the EU as the status quo and Brexit as a reaction against the status quo. But it could be that the EU isn't seen as the status quo, rather the status quo is the ordered world of the past, before the Euro, before the accession of the old Soviet bloc states, that the uncertainties of change are being rejected in favour of a familiar past. The absolute conviction of leave voters that everything will be OK can only conceivably come, to my mind, from the idea that we got on fine before we joined. For them, that past world still exists, it's the status quo we revert to when the EU future is rejected. Instead of a step forward into the unknown, into an abyss of half formed Brexit ideas, for them it's actually a step back, a step away from the brink of the EU's brave new world of a more federal, more fluid, less nationalist Europe.

Only anecdotal but I do wonder how many more this might apply to.

I asked my local corner shop owner what possessed him to vote leave.
He had two reasons
1) The Polski Sklep's (Polish shops) were encroaching on his business
2) Without all the EU immigrants it would be easier for his brothers to get work permits/visa's to come over to work in his other shops (and takeaway). He tells me many restaurant/ take away owner's in his community felt the same about family members being able to come here easily if we left the EU.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:13 pm

I'm fairly sure this (or similar) was linked to last year:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/as- ... 91121.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If you were in your ‘reminiscence bump’ before the UK joined the EU in 1973 you are at risk of remembering these times more fondly and in more detail than they actually were

It rings true, but also a number of younger people i've spoken too (40s upwards) have justified voting brexit for reasons such as "our country used to be great" harking back to empire days and earlier, so it's more reminiscing for something that in reality never existed.
The saddest thing is (which you all know, already) that a hard brexit is likely move conditions back to like in times past, just not in the way leave voters expected.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:20 pm

Duncan Weldon‏Verified account
@DuncanWeldon
2h2 hours ago
More
Irish border is an unexpected problem in the Brexit talks.
Unexpected here used in the sense that it was unexpected that a house guest would be murdered whilst Poirot stayed over for a weekend shooting party.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:23 pm

Brexit Impact Studies by the European Parliament are Publicly Available

http://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/brexit ... tudies-ep/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 10:40 pm

Oh for pity's sake.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:01 pm

Arguably the best thing about it is that she can't spell "remembrance" correctly

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:02 pm

If there is one thing on that Twitter that makes my blood boil it's their "In case you missed it" 'feature - really very annoying. Seems to kick in even though you've only been away from the PC long enough to do the washing up!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:03 pm

Neil Henderson‏Verified account
@hendopolis
Follow Follow @hendopolis
More
SUNDAY TIMES: Tory turmoil as 40 MPs say May must go #tomorrowspaperstoday

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:16 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:If there is one thing on that Twitter that makes my blood boil it's their "In case you missed it" 'feature - really very annoying. Seems to kick in even though you've only been away from the PC long enough to do the washing up!

Is it possible to turn it off, that feature?
I seldom use Twitter and Facebook

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:17 pm

I buy a poppy every year and put it in a drawer. I grew up with the idea that you are donating to the Royal British Legion to help injured soldiers and widows and the poppy is just something you get in return, like some charities give out stickers or something, and will never understand the importance some people attach to them. It's not like attending a remembrance service or anything. It's just a paper pin badge.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:17 pm

http://blog.spicker.uk/a-new-direction- ... tribunals/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A new direction for social security tribunals?

"Ernest Ryder, the Senior President of Tribunals, was suggesting that tribunals were likely to move into online hearings, and that social security tribunals would be pioneering the approach. That announcement was received with some apprehension, because the experience of digital communication and systems supposed to be “digital by default” has not been good for claimants; it assumes access to resources and a level of competence with IT that many people would find challenging. The technology for managing group meetings is improving, but it’s still buggy and difficult to access; the added security needed for tribunal hearings is liable to add to that.

In a recent talk, however, Sir Ernest has been offering more insight into his thoughts about the conduct of social security tribunals, and it may not be what the critics expect. He has been complaining that the incompetence of the DWP has clogged up the tribunal system. Mandatory Reconsideration is no help – the number of bad decisions has been mounting. In most of the cases submitted by the DWP, “there could be no argument in law or on facts that the appellant wouldn’t win.” Ryder would like to give tribunals the right to reject the DWP’s papers without wasting time on a hearing."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:23 pm

@willow my dad makes a regular donation,has volunteered and donated to SSAFA,he doesn't happen to wear one,which says naff all of course about him or anybody else of course that doesn't.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:24 pm

citizenJA wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:If there is one thing on that Twitter that makes my blood boil it's their "In case you missed it" 'feature - really very annoying. Seems to kick in even though you've only been away from the PC long enough to do the washing up!
Is it possible to turn it off, that feature?
I seldom use Twitter and Facebook

No, it's not optional just a "thing" they do thinking they are helpful - but it's really not.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:30 pm

Does however say something about people that suggest it does IMHO.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:35 pm

"Things you wanted to miss/ignored but we keep showing you anyway"

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:41 pm

#Danny Shaw

Sir Paul Stephenson confirms to BBC he was briefed during leaks inquiry about Damian Green pornography allegations
Sir Paul Stephenson said alleged pornography find was a “side issue” cos ‘no criminality, no victims & no extraordinary public interest’
Sir Paul Stephenson said it was not Scotland Yard’s job to “police the workplace” re pornography allegedly found on Damian Green’s computer"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41958392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:55 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... gotiations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Observer view of Britain’s shambolic Brexit negotiations

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Sat 11 Nov, 2017 11:59 pm

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-11-11/john ... tructions/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Johnson and Gove reportedly penned secret letter to PM giving her Brexit instructions

PTO