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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 5:44 am 
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Morning


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42034392


Budget 2017: Chancellor Philip Hammond 'to target housing and NHS'


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 5:54 am 
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42029445


Social care: MPs seek cross-party group to 'sustain' NHS


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 5:58 am 
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Take 154


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 8:07 am 
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This site is well worth a visit if you are interested in climate change.

http://www.globalcarbonproject.org/carb ... tation.htm

The Global Carbon Project

The latest figures aren't great, though the fact that the "22 countries" are managing to reverse trends gives me some hope. The main worry this year seems to be China's emissions, which are increasing again.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 9:14 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 9:19 am 
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Good morfternoon.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 9:20 am 
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Twice.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 9:23 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... nd-cartoon

It seems Rowson also found the "cuckoo land" comment amusing ;-)


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 9:57 am 
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This is excellent on the week in Brexitland

https://twitter.com/37paday/status/931792894398169088

I had missed the one about bankers getting special arrangements. I'd been waiting for it. Did anyone else pick it up? For me it's a key point to get out there. The Tories letting their banker mates stay in the EU while the rest of us suffer.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 9:59 am 
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Ah here it is

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ter-brexit

david-davis-seeks-reassure-city-transfer-workers-after-brexit


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 10:00 am 
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Quote:
Global banks should be able to continue to transfer workers between the UK and EU member states after Brexit, David Davis has told an audience of City workers.

In an emollient private speech at the London headquarters of Swiss bank UBS on Tuesday, the Brexit secretary sought to reassure financial institutions that the government hopes to negotiate a deal with Brussels that would allow City firms to move senior staff in and out of the UK.

“We want to ensure that our new partnership with the EU protects the mobility of workers and professionals across the continent. Whether this means a bank temporarily moving a worker to an office in Germany or a lawyer visiting a client in Paris, we believe it is in the interests of both sides to see this continue,” Davis said.

That approach would contrast with the tough new rules on lower-skilled workers mooted in a draft of the government’s immigration white paper leaked to the Guardian earlier this year.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 11:12 am 
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New Scottish Labour leader is announced - Richard Leonard.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 11:19 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
New Scottish Labour leader is announced - Richard Leonard.

Thank you.

No big surprise. Seems like a decent sort, but I don't know that much about him.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 11:20 am 
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Leonard - 12,469 (56.7%)
Sarwar - 9,516 (43.3%)


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 11:24 am 
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Morning all.

There is a National Governance Association conference going on and this is interesting.

Quote:
Martin George‏Verified account
@geomr
Following Following @geomr
More
Round of applause as @NGAMedia chief exec criticises @JustineGreening and @NickGibbUK for not coming to its events #ngaconf


Yet both can find time to get to the grassroots *cough* organisation Parents and Teachers for Excellence events. Funny that...

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 11:25 am 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
New Scottish Labour leader is announced - Richard Leonard.

Thank you.

No big surprise. Seems like a decent sort, but I don't know that much about him.


I'm not biased because he's from Yorkshire of course ;-)


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 11:32 am 
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Morning, morning........

Just read this in the Guardian re Universal Credit not paying the housing portion directly to the landlord but rather directly to (in this case) the claimant.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/ ... sal-credit

this BTL struck me, and I don't think I've seen anyone mention this before:-



Jonathan Baldwin shaukat abbas 2h ago


It’s not very easy to manage your money when there’s a six week delay.

Many people on benefit didn’t plan to be; they may have been in work and suddenly found themselves unemployed with minimal savings, or even debt. I’ve been in that situation and the rapid shift from being “okay” to literally having no money for food is overwhelming.

Fortunately when it happened to me I had access to housing benefit, which paid the rent and went straight to the landlord, my council tax was paid, and I had some money for day to day living. But even then, I had a week where I lived on lentils and only because I borrowed a few pounds from a friend - after three days of getting over the embarrassment.

If HB had been paid direct to me, the bank would have used it to pay off my overdraft and the rent wouldn’t have been paid. I’d have had no say in that. It’s impossible to manage your money if it’s not in your control.

Bear in mind I was in a good job that paid pretty well, but living in one of the most expensive parts of the country.

** 'reather' to 'rather' **


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Well done to Richard Leonard, the Scottish party have made the correct choice.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
Gritsy Bitsy and David Plowie show true grit to triumph in naming contest

As winter approaches, Doncaster Council brought fun to keeping the roads ice-free by asking the public to name its new gritters. (Sky News)


https://news.sky.com/story/gritsy-bitsy-and-david-plowie-show-true-grit-to-triumph-in-naming-contest-11131273


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 1:13 pm 
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Couling(UC guy),not happy with BBC coverage (Lewis Moneybox)of effects of weekly paid when 5 paydays in month on UC calcs,stating numbers effected inflated although DWP can't actually give numbers.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 1:21 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... and-losers


Who wins and loses in Trump's tax plan?


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 1:22 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Couling(UC guy),not happy with BBC coverage (Lewis Moneybox)of effects of weekly paid when 5 paydays in month on UC calcs,stating numbers effected inflated although DWP can't actually give numbers.


No doubt he just feels it in his water. Or he "believes". Iain Smith casts a long shadow.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 1:41 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Couling(UC guy),not happy with BBC coverage (Lewis Moneybox)of effects of weekly paid when 5 paydays in month on UC calcs,stating numbers effected inflated although DWP can't actually give numbers.


As Paul Lewis adroitly points out, how many other people are affected doesn't make any different to those that are. Their circumstances won't change but just because December has an extra Friday some people on low weekly wages will lose their UC entitlement completely and will have to reapply in January. The nub appears to be that UC has been designed to work in this completely baffling, complicated and unhelpful way. Happening over Xmas makes for a story, but the fact this is going to happen to a cohort of people 4 times every year is just deranged imo. That the government think it an improvement on previous systems is revealing. If UC was ever about simplifying an overly bureaucratic system I think it's clear now that it is about something very different in Tory hands. Labour need to stop agreeing to it "in principle" and start condemning it as unfit for purpose and a much, much bigger catastrophe for those using it than early child tax credits teething problems.

(I humbly suggest! Sorry for rant, but this story made me really angry this morning).

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 1:49 pm 
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No need to apologise.Of course,such things were flagged up/perfectly forseeable.There are very good reasons why some benefits/allowances are or can be chosen to be paid in a certain time period or were,far beyond the making people able to budget twaddle.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 1:56 pm 
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@Willow904

Yes - the agreeing with it in principle stuff lends it a gloss of legitimacy which it simply doesn't deserve. If there's a kernel of a good idea in it, then Labour should build on that later, and undertake to scrap the existing system, scrap the name, and go back to first, um, principals.




Edited - to add an "f"


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:07 pm 
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Labour are still taking the "agree in principle" line? Genuine question btw.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:13 pm 
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But you can hardly argue against making work pay and making the system simpler,from their point if view,politicos/charities have argued the latter for decades That is what I take pronouncements to mean.I do think it was an error,however,given that the former overwhelmingly pertained and the dangers of simplification.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:17 pm 
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You can highlight how both are fundamentally undermined by UC,which they are doing.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:19 pm 
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A bit like scrap WCA and fundamentally reform of.You have to have to have some system.Totemistic removals are only one thing.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:21 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:

(I humbly suggest! Sorry for rant, but this story made me really angry this morning).

Cor, that gave me flashbacks to a weird poster on the Graun.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:23 pm 
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refitman wrote:
Willow904 wrote:

(I humbly suggest! Sorry for rant, but this story made me really angry this morning).

Cor, that gave me flashbacks to a weird poster on the Graun.


He\she did take humility to irritating extremes! Sort of thing . . . (different poster).


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:25 pm 
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@AK yeah .I take to mean as above but DA also stresses "like the NHS" for system in general.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 2:27 pm 
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I'm a luddite on the simplification line.I like complexity and introduced for a reason.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:12 pm 
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@discordantharmony
Thank you for posting the comment below the line on UC problems article. It's alarmingly easy going from comfortably employed, housed and no debt to not having money enough for food. It's literally overwhelming. Traumatic events or a series of them has physical and psychological impacts. It's frustrating to me this uncontroversial information isn't acknowledged when inconvenient for those wanting to sow division and through away compassion.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:13 pm 
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Good-afternoon, everyone
It's after three o'clock
I'll put the kettle on


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:16 pm 
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Apologies for my grammatical errors


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:19 pm 
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.


;)


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:23 pm 
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@Cja

Oi,I am the master of badly writen.

;)


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:26 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Labour are still taking the "agree in principle" line? Genuine question btw.


Labour have highlighted or opposed elements of UC, but I'm not aware they have ever, to date, condemned the entire policy and urged the government to halt/scrap it.

I appreciate that without media support such a stance would be difficult to pull off and win public backing for. My wishing they would isn't a recommendation, just a frustrated wish on my part.

Charities and other organisations are as bad/worse for "agreeing in principle". I wish they'd all get off the fence and start condemning it too.

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:27 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Good-afternoon, everyone
It's after three o'clock
I'll put the kettle on


I knew a man who always wore a saucepan on his head.
I asked him why he wore it. "I don't know why," he said.
"It makes my ears so red and sore. I am a foolish man.
I should have changed it long before and wore a frying pan."

(Anonymous)


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:32 pm 
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Are you against making work pay and making access simpler/more understandeable for claimants.?That is what they mean "in principle".Does highlight the danger though of rod for own back "agreement".


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:46 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
Are you against making work pay and making access simpler/more understandeable for claimants.?That is what they mean "in principle".Does highlight the danger though of rod for own back "agreement".



Labour could say that they are in favour of the things in your first sentence and follow that up by saying, very clearly, that Universal Credit does neither of those things and that they (Labour) are, therefore, against it.





Edited - typo


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 3:54 pm 
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It exists.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 4:01 pm 
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It's a bit like saying that shooting the poor is a good idea because it would ensure that they never go hungry again.

The aim (pardon the pun) is good but is the mechanism for achieving it a good idea "in principle"?

(AnalogiesRn'tUs)





Edited - typo


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 4:07 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
@Cja

Oi,I am the master of badly writen.

;)
You've that earned mastership through tenacity and practice


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 4:08 pm 
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Fundamental error was not pointing out the maligned system did overwhelmingly uphold the principle,but politicos/charities have argued for decades for the need to reform to "make bettter".


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 4:20 pm 
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@Porfavor

Yes. Surely agreeing with UC in principle is agreeing with UC as a solution to an agreed problem, not agreeing to the problem but not the solution. In that case you would say you disagree with the policy of UC because you don't think it will solve the problem.

I suppose what I'm wondering now is whether Labour genuinely see UC as a good thing in principle, despite rejecting it when they were in government as unworkable. In which case perhaps they should emphasise they agree with it in theory but reject it as impossible in practise. If they could produce evidence of IT incompetence and failure and demonstrate how the system is unworkable, perhaps this side steps issues of being seen as being against making work pay.

I personally don't agree with it even in theory, but don't mind if Labour do, as long as they don't allow the Tories to exploit that to cover up and persist with a failing/failed policy.

Edited to clarify in response to Porfavor.

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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 4:34 pm 
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I was fundamental opposed,just musings as to why politicos/charities said it and continue to do.


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PostPosted: Sat 18 Nov, 2017 4:41 pm 
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UC excludes CT which undermines the supposed principles in itself.


PF there is something I have to remind you about...


Last edited by HindleA on Sat 18 Nov, 2017 4:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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