PorFavor wrote:Too late to leave? I'm not following . . .
In my optimistic moments, I hope that May and Hammond at least don't actually want Brexit to happen. But they need some pretty good excuses and a shedload of fall guys and scapegoats.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 2:04 pm
by PorFavor
Ooh! I PTOd all by myself. Unlikely to repeat it - so don't be lulled into a false sense of security.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 3:00 pm
by citizenJA
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Too late to leave? I'm not following . . .
In my optimistic moments, I hope that May and Hammond at least don't actually want Brexit to happen. But they need some pretty good excuses and a shedload of fall guys and scapegoats.
Brilliant, Paul 'it's too late to leave now...'
become a meme rapidly followed by a reality
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 3:01 pm
by citizenJA
Good-afternoon, everyone
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 3:55 pm
by HindleA
Afternoon,Cja.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 3:59 pm
by HindleA
Paul's "swift half" now entering an "afternoon session"
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 4:02 pm
by HindleA
PF on bottle 6 of the day ,helpfully she numbers and dates them.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 4:04 pm
by HindleA
And stamps "For Medicinal Purposes".She is very organised.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 4:13 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Too late to leave? I'm not following . . .
In my optimistic moments, I hope that May and Hammond at least don't actually want Brexit to happen. But they need some pretty good excuses and a shedload of fall guys and scapegoats.
It has been suggested May's recent posturing over Russia might be a bit of "kite flying" in this regard - if Brexit can get blamed on Putin, it could yet be called off?
I don't really think so either, but just that such a thing can be mooted is maybe interesting??
Inspectors to question primary school girls who wear hijab
Ofsted head says move is to tackle situations in which wearing head covering ‘could be interpreted as sexualisation’
Brexit lacks credibility – but Remainers lack leadership
William Keegan
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 4:30 pm
by PorFavor
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
PorFavor wrote:Too late to leave? I'm not following . . .
In my optimistic moments, I hope that May and Hammond at least don't actually want Brexit to happen. But they need some pretty good excuses and a shedload of fall guys and scapegoats.
Brexit lacks credibility – but Remainers lack leadership
William Keegan
It's a good piece, but the title is IMHO wrong.
This for me is the fundamental problem. Remain doesn't need leadership, people do. And actually in an imperfect and often frustrating way that leadership is coming from Labour.
Labour is slowly building a coalition of voters who don't want the Tory vision for the UK or for Brexit. Surely this is the only hope we have. The problem IMHO is not that Remain lacks leadership, but that the leaders we have are not appealing to some who want to remain. It's really important we bridge this divide, which will need patience and respect from both sides.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 4:41 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Banging on about "leadership" is maybe missing the point anyway. If anything is going to "stop Brexit" its a bottom-up groundswell of opinion.
Brexit lacks credibility – but Remainers lack leadership
William Keegan
It's a good piece, but the title is IMHO wrong.
This for me is the fundamental problem. Remain doesn't need leadership, people do. And actually in an imperfect and often frustrating way that leadership is coming from Labour.
Labour is slowly building a coalition of voters who don't want the Tory vision for the UK or for Brexit. Surely this is the only hope we have. The problem IMHO is not that Remain lacks leadership, but that the leaders we have are not appealing to some who want to remain. It's really important we bridge this divide, which will need patience and respect from both sides.
You may well be right. Regretful "Brexiters" probably don't want to be made to feel that they are being "led". After all, they've already been had once. A more subtle, organic approach is more likely to work.
Edited - how many commas?
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 4:45 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Banging on about "leadership" is maybe missing the point anyway. If anything is going to "stop Brexit" its a bottom-up groundswell of opinion.
Yes. I agree. I think this another way of looking at the same thing. But if the groundswell comes, the would be "leaders" need to be ready for it and not be bickering among themselves.
Brexit lacks credibility – but Remainers lack leadership
William Keegan
It's a good piece, but the title is IMHO wrong.
This for me is the fundamental problem. Remain doesn't need leadership, people do. And actually in an imperfect and often frustrating way that leadership is coming from Labour.
Labour is slowly building a coalition of voters who don't want the Tory vision for the UK or for Brexit. Surely this is the only hope we have. The problem IMHO is not that Remain lacks leadership, but that the leaders we have are not appealing to some who want to remain. It's really important we bridge this divide, which will need patience and respect from both sides.
You may well be right. Regretful "Brexiters" probably don't want to be made to feel that they are being "led". After all, they've already been had once. A more subtle, organic, approach is more likely to work.
Exactly. You and Anatoly are both saying similar things here I think and saying them more poetically than I can
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 5:34 pm
by citizenJA
Did Keegan get to pick the title of his article himself? It's not a good title based upon what's written below it. The title of Keegan's article makes it sound as though he's having a go at the opposition leader. Keegan didn't do that at all. Keegan criticises the Tory governments having led the UK where it's at now, their incapacity alone are the cause of current difficulty.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 5:39 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Columnists often don't write the titles of their pieces, sub-editors do. This is something that perhaps isn't as widely known as it should be.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 6:38 pm
by citizenJA
Thank you, AK
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 6:54 pm
by RogerOThornhill
Evening all.
Tax experts call for ‘rethink’ of UK corporation tax in Budge
When David Cameron became prime minister in 2010, the headline corporation tax rate was 28 per cent. Mr Hammond’s predecessor, George Osborne, repeatedly cut the tax rate to its current level of 19 per cent. In 2016, Mr Osborne announced plans for the rate to drop a further two percentage points, to 17 per cent, in April 2020.
In his March Budget this year, Mr Hammond underlined his commitment to reducing the rate further, saying cutting it to 17 per cent would send the “clearest possible signal that Britain is open for business”.
But now some tax experts say the chancellor should redirect the money earmarked for a corporation tax cut to tackle other policy challenges.
“I hope [the chancellor] does rethink,” said Bill Dodwell, head of tax policy at Deloitte. “Business welcomed the drop to 20 per cent. Nobody seems to welcome the cut to 17 per cent.”
The British Chambers of Commerce has also urged Mr Hammond to “pause” and keep the corporate tax rate at 19 per cent until after UK leaves the EU. The lobby group has said that the resulting revenue could be ringfenced to ease other burdens on business.
Still I'm sure that the usual suspects who want it slashed know far more about tit than businesses...
Home Office admits it is struggling to recruit staff to register EU nationals
Lawyers say current staffing levels mean each caseworker will process 1,500 of 3 million EU registration applications
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 7:01 pm
by RogerOThornhill
And this thread is rather excellent...
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Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 7:01 pm
by PorFavor
Know more about what?
Edited to add - that's a question for RogerOThornhill
citizenJA wrote:Did Keegan get to pick the title of his article himself? It's not a good title based upon what's written below it. The title of Keegan's article makes it sound as though he's having a go at the opposition leader. Keegan didn't do that at all. Keegan criticises the Tory governments having led the UK where it's at now, their incapacity alone are the cause of current difficulty.
Exactly JA.
The article is MUCH better than the title.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 7:29 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
As friends know I enjoy following Robin Lustig on Twitter. He's providing useful commentary on Zimbabwe, but also recently highlighted this stunning piece from the New York Times. As Robin says, proper journalism.
The most important Budget number will not actually be contained within the pages of the Red Book.
It is 7. The number of MPs from the Conservative benches that it would take to defeat any Budget legislation.
But the potential winnings for ruthless politicians are nevertheless enormous: the prize is the opportunity to rework an almost infinite range of detailed arrangements both inside and outside the UK, to redraw at breakneck speed the legal framework that will govern all aspects of our lives
“If you break it, you own it” is an adage in the United States (propagated by a country-wide pottery retail chain). The right wing of the Tory party has broken Britain’s relationship with the entire world. Its objective now is to own the process of reconstructing that relationship.
I presume the snap election was supposed to secure this opportunity by extending Tory majority rule an extra couple of years post-Brexit, but May almost fudged it. The final shape of the withdrawal bill will now determine the disaster capitalists scope for remodelling our economy and society, presumably to the specifications of the American far right.
As ever it remains the case that it is easier to break things than make things. How bad the damage will be hangs on a handful of Tory rebels. Hard not to be pessimistic.
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 8:19 pm
by tinybgoat
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Jackson Browne 'Walls and Doors' by Carlos Varela
Some quite good ones, but I think this is my favourite
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Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Sun 19 Nov, 2017 10:31 pm
by HindleA
NB despite reports to the contrary I remain the supreme leader of the known and unknown Universe.My televised waffling may have confused some as much as me.
German coalition talks close to collapse
Negotiations between four parties failed to reach agreement on immigration and energy, leaving Angela Merkel facing possibility of minority government
Alabama's largest newspaper calls on voters to 'reject Roy Moore'
With special election looming, Birmingham News editorial calls sexual assault allegations against candidate ‘a turning point for women in Alabama’
Re: Saturday 18th & Sunday 19th November 2017
Posted: Mon 20 Nov, 2017 2:58 am
by HindleA
One reason I endeavour not to be in the factional thing is that it reduces the chance of knee jerkery according to person/group real or perceived.Reeves got hammered,rather more on being her,misrepresentation of what she actually said,presented in a way of course to get such a reaction.You could of course equally easilly do this currently.Different personnel would have got a wholly different reaction to zero mention of cap,freezing etc",I think if people are honest and agreement in principle, of UC,still very much retains,as discussed.They were some welcome proposals,the same as the Tories in Scotland re.CA(see how easy it is to present this stuff subject to underplaying/overplaying and bias)and of course getting rid of the penalty for having a deemed spare room even if it bloody obviously isn't etc.Ridding WCA rather than fundamental reform of,remains totemic until we know what a holistic approach means in practice.As ever I remain a friendly sceptic.
