Thursday 30th November 2017

Post by **refitman** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 7:11 am

Morning all.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:33 am

Morning.

Looks like Emily Thornberry had the easiest gig ever this morning on Toady. Providing "balance" to Ann Coulter on that Trump Tweet

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:36 am

Giving my lad a hand with the papers this morning, I noticed the Times had 'Irish Border Deal Near' or something similar.

Anyone else heard this news?

Post by **adam** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:38 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Giving my lad a hand with the papers this morning, I noticed the Times had 'Irish Border Deal Near' or something similar.

Anyone else heard this news?

It was floating in a story in the guardian last night, but until we see more I'm filing it with 'why should we pay anything to them, they owe us money'.

The story's here.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 8:48 am

adam wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Giving my lad a hand with the papers this morning, I noticed the Times had 'Irish Border Deal Near' or something similar.

Anyone else heard this news?
It was floating in a story in the guardian last night, but until we see more I'm filing it with 'why should we pay anything to them, they owe us money'.

The story's here.

Thanks that's helpful.

Presumably the deal is that Davis will promise "no hard border" without any solution.

The question is whether the DUP will put up with it. They will rightly be sceptical that there is any way of achieving this without increasing controls between Northern Ireland and the mainland. This could be very interesting.

Post by **adam** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 9:01 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
adam wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Giving my lad a hand with the papers this morning, I noticed the Times had 'Irish Border Deal Near' or something similar.

Anyone else heard this news?
It was floating in a story in the guardian last night, but until we see more I'm filing it with 'why should we pay anything to them, they owe us money'.

The story's here.
Thanks that's helpful.

Presumably the deal is that Davis will promise "no hard border" without any solution.

The question is whether the DUP will put up with it. They will rightly be sceptical that there is any way of achieving this without increasing controls between Northern Ireland and the mainland. This could be very interesting.

I think the interesting thing here - and it goes hand in hand with the European Parliament voting that the conditions haven't been met to proceed - is that money was simple - we come to some agreement in principal or we don't and have an idea of what it involves - and citizens rights are doable - although one of the EP's concerns is the ongoing role of the ECJ in protecting them which is going to be interesting - but given what we've said our red lines are, a settlement of the Irish border seems impossible.

Saying 'no hard border' is like saying 'we will have a deep, free and frictionless trade agreement' - it's a nice aspiration but it absolutely does not fit with what we've chosen to do. Just like leaving and not having to pay anything was nonsense and has been resolved, and just like leaving without dealing with ongoing citizens' rights was nonsense and appears to have broadly been resolved, except this time, unless Ireland and the rest of the EU just give up, I find it difficult to see how this will happen. The suggestion from Ahern that we should just concentrate on big business and turn a blind eye to small time smuggling was one of the more enjoyable ideas, for all sorts of ridiculous reasons.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 9:32 am

Good morning.

It's snowing.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 9:34 am

Good morfternoon.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 9:40 am

gilsey wrote:Good morning.

It's snowing.

Not yet here. Though there is still some left on Holme Moss from last weekend. More on its way I believe....

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 10:20 am

Hugo Rifkind‏Verified account @hugorifkind
2h2 hours ago

Can a President who tweets the wrong Theresa May be trusted to nuke the right Korea?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 11:19 am

Good-morning, everyone

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 11:20 am

Morning.

Snow? Not very likely round here. Bit nippy, though.

Meanwhile, across the pond, the net is tightening. No wonder Trump prefers to catfight on Twitter:

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(THREAD) With the news that Bob Mueller recently interviewed Jared Kushner about his dealings with former Trump NSA Michael Flynn, now's a good time to discuss the many oddities of the Kushner-Flynn relationship. Hope you'll pass on this summary to others who might be interested.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 11:38 am

Bonnylad wrote:Hugo Rifkind‏Verified account @hugorifkind
2h2 hours ago

Can a President who tweets the wrong Theresa May be trusted to nuke the right Korea?

Credit where its due, that's a bit of a zinger from him

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:03 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... spite-care" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... n#comments" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:10 pm

Morning.

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On a similar note, even some of those who routinely leap to its defence over bias/balance issues have this week been asking themselves WTAF the BBC are up to these days...

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:18 pm

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -resources" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

List of beneficiaries, publicity materials, regulations and a glossary for organisations running European Regional Development Fund and European Social Fund projects(Updated)

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:34 pm

Robert Peston‏Verified account @Peston
54m54 minutes ago

Why the @Number10gov may have to repeal her own EU Withdrawal Act " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:35 pm

Not sure if this is realistic, from British and Irish Chamber of Commerce (Monday) but interesting & haven't seen any discussion of it
http://www.britishirishchamber.com/2017 ... rtnership/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The proposal for the UK and EU to form a new ‘Customs Arrangement’ would eliminate the need for a border on the island of Ireland and addresses concerns about border and customs checks at UK ports. It also best serves the interests of those trading in the UK, Ireland and the EU, while limiting the number of compromises required from the British Government or the EU.

(was linked to elsewhere https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/11/30/is ... he-border/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in relation to article in the Times)

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:38 pm

http://23.254.179.97/2017/11/exclusive- ... -two-years" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EXCLUSIVE: DfE has no schedule for publishing impact assessments for free schools opened in last two years

Not sure if repeat/further confirmation.Apologies,if so.

Post by **adam** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 12:51 pm

tinybgoat wrote:Not sure if this is realistic, from British and Irish Chamber of Commerce (Monday) but interesting & haven't seen any discussion of it
http://www.britishirishchamber.com/2017 ... rtnership/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The proposal for the UK and EU to form a new ‘Customs Arrangement’ would eliminate the need for a border on the island of Ireland and addresses concerns about border and customs checks at UK ports. It also best serves the interests of those trading in the UK, Ireland and the EU, while limiting the number of compromises required from the British Government or the EU.
(was linked to elsewhere https://sluggerotoole.com/2017/11/30/is ... he-border/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; in relation to article in the Times)

A trade relationship between the UK and the EU that is effectively borderless (including in Ireland and at UK ports) and free from tariff and non-tariff barriers and enabling trade in both goods and services;

We're back with 'free and frictionless trade' just as now but without the commitments as members of the EU/CU/SM - we come back to the question of why we should expect a trade relationship that is 'effectively borderless', just as though we were still in the EU and so on, without actually still being in the EU and meeting the various commitments involved. It's everything the UK government keep talking about and everything the EU keep saying is simply not possible.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:05 pm

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Well, I know what I think of this defence.

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Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:14 pm

NonOxCol wrote:

Well, I know what I think of this defence.

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I Tweeted on just this earlier.

Justine Greening, for example, when asked could just have said

"I utterly condemn Trump's actions, but I don't want to give him undue attention so can we now move on to discussing schools please."

If the interviewer returned to Trump she could just say the same again.

That's what I would do.

[Edited to say I think I responded to the wrong point in this post but I'll leave it here anyway

]

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:22 pm

Hurrah an election/vote.

NonOxCol · Post by **NonOxCol** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:23 pm

And an excerpt from the Coulter interview is now being used in BBC radio news bulletins all day without context, scrutiny or any such thing. Of course it is.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:27 pm

BBC catches up on the Irish Border problem

Why can't there be a hard border?
Part of the concern is political.

Part?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:28 pm

Theresa May's Jordan press conference is all about Donald Trump and his tweets. Not what she had hoped for.

Post by **adam** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:29 pm

NonOxCol wrote:And an excerpt from the Coulter interview is now being used in BBC radio news bulletins all day without context, scrutiny or any such thing. Of course it is.

Coulter is one of those 'overton window' issues - if she has anything at all to do with the mainstream it can only mean that the mainstream has left the mainstream far behind.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:39 pm

NonOxCol wrote:And an excerpt from the Coulter interview is now being used in BBC radio news bulletins all day without context, scrutiny or any such thing. Of course it is.

That's what seeing "balance" as giving equal prominence to truth and falsehood ultimately does to you.

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:41 pm

adam wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:And an excerpt from the Coulter interview is now being used in BBC radio news bulletins all day without context, scrutiny or any such thing. Of course it is.
Coulter is one of those 'overton window' issues - if she has anything at all to do with the mainstream it can only mean that the mainstream has left the mainstream far behind.

.

Seething here in my Normandy kitchen, world at one just had that toad Sebastian Gorka on, for far too long .

Grrrr

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:48 pm

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/b ... 66147.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Brexit: Northern Ireland may stay in single market under border deal tabled by London"

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:49 pm

Made me weep

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/don ... 84521.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

donald-trump-britain-first-tweets-video-what-really-happened

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 1:59 pm

Bonnylad wrote:Robert Peston‏Verified account @Peston
54m54 minutes ago

Why the @Number10gov may have to repeal her own EU Withdrawal Act " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …

This probably won't actually happen, sad to say. Still, tell me how the Tories are "competent" again

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 2:08 pm

tinybgoat wrote:https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/b ... 66147.html
"Brexit: Northern Ireland may stay in single market under border deal tabled by London"

DUP won't like it, and that's putting it mildly.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 2:38 pm

gilsey wrote:
tinybgoat wrote:https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/b ... 66147.html
"Brexit: Northern Ireland may stay in single market under border deal tabled by London"
DUP won't like it, and that's putting it mildly.

It does look like a bit of an impasse!

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 2:42 pm

The UK Student Loan problem is going from bad to worse
notayesmanseconomics

https://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress. ... worse/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 2:55 pm

HindleA wrote:The UK Student Loan problem is going from bad to worse
notayesmanseconomics

https://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress. ... worse/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Good blog. Picks up a lot of the question marks over the point of student loans if, as government ministers happily insist themselves, the bulk of the capital is never paid back.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:12 pm

Shaun Richards

Post by **adam** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:29 pm

In amongst so many big piles of nonsense, there's always something else to come along that you hadn't even considered could be a thing.

Giro d'Italia backs down in Israel row over calling start 'west Jerusalem'

The Giro d’Italia appears to have backed down in a row with Israeli ministers over its labelling of the major European cycling tour’s 2018 departure as “west Jerusalem” rather than Jerusalem, which had led to a threat to withdraw support. Race organisers initially took advice from the Italian foreign ministry to describe the start point as west Jerusalem, due to competing Israeli and Palestinian claims over the city.
Israeli politicians, led by the controversial culture and sport minister, Miri Regev, threatened to withdraw support, claiming the race was in breach of its agreement.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:34 pm

"Disrimination is unacceptable",sayeth the former Minster Against the Disabled,part of the Government found repeatedly to be undertaking discriminatory policies.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 3:59 pm

Willow904 wrote:
HindleA wrote:The UK Student Loan problem is going from bad to worse
notayesmanseconomics

https://notayesmanseconomics.wordpress. ... worse/amp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good blog. Picks up a lot of the question marks over the point of student loans if, as government ministers happily insist themselves, the bulk of the capital is never paid back.

The objective is to create an income stream which can then be sold off.
Students repaying capital is definitely not part of the plan.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:31 pm

HindleA wrote:Shaun Richards

Sorry, what?

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:34 pm

Peter Geoghegan‏ @PeterKGeoghegan

Juicy story about Legatum due to break on @FerretScot shortly. Watch this space

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:41 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
HindleA wrote:Shaun Richards
Sorry, what?

Author of the preceding blog.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:46 pm

Beyond ridiculous not everybody can't read my mind.It was,unusually for me,even in responsive sequence.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:51 pm

Probably a rather a good thing,they can't,having said that.Like a sewer.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 4:53 pm

Bonnylad wrote:Peter Geoghegan‏ @PeterKGeoghegan

Juicy story about Legatum due to break on @FerretScot shortly. Watch this space

This one I would guess.

Legatum under investigation by Charity Commission

https://theferret.scot/doubts-raised-le ... rity-work/

The Legatum Institute, a registered charity, has become increasingly influential in government circles since the UK voted to leave the European Union.

The Charity Commission has opened a ‘compliance case’ on whether Legatum is fulfilling its charitable obligation to advance education without promoting a particular worldview.

A compliance case is the first step towards a potential full inquiry into the charity.

An investigation by The Ferret has also found that the Charity Commission previously queried Legatum’s suitability for charitable status in 2011, and that the charity’s activities have changed since its registration.

Legatum has taken public stances on Brexit, urging the government to remove all tariffs and leave the EU as soon as possible. The regulator places tight restrictions on the political activity of charities.

Shanker Singham, chairman of Legatum’s self-styled ‘special trade commission’, has had at least seven meetings with government ministers. Last week he met Michael Gove.

Excellent. Too many fake 'charities' around.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 5:20 pm

HindleA wrote:Beyond ridiculous not everybody can't read my mind.It was,unusually for me,even in responsive sequence.

Thought it might be our own version of "Ed Balls" on Twitter

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 6:20 pm

The creep Sebastian Gorka was starring on R4's World at One Today, imposing his Islamophobia on the journalist ...

http://uk.businessinsider.com/sebastian ... ile-2017-2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

His CV is rather fun: a bogus doctorate, and service in a tiny British Army territorial Cold War intel unit that never did anything . The Army Rumour Service has him down as a "Walt" .

Which is short for " WALTER MITTY ."

As you were

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 6:25 pm

This from the LiveBlog is classic Looking Glass —

“” Another Irish official was contacted by her British counterpart, who asked what she had been ‘hearing back’ from the EU about the idea of an ‘associated membership’. (This was before article 50 was triggered, so Britain could not engage directly with the EU.) She replied with some incredulity: “What am I going to hear? What does associated membership even mean? Like, what is it?’

Her counterpart replied: “Oh, right, Okay.’ “”

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-n ... 061d926a1a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

frog222 · Post by **frog222** » Thu 30 Nov, 2017 6:27 pm

I am not in Oz !

edited to remind to PTO

thankyou.