Monday 4th December 2017

Post by **refitman** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 7:11 am

Morning all.

tinybgoat · Post by **tinybgoat** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 9:12 am

@frog222
Thanks for link to Stephen Bush articles,
I'd read one a couple no days ago, but forgotten who it was by,
But interesting where he suggests the DUP aren't bluffing
(A minority view),and would be prepared to end up with a Corbym government if necessary
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... government" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Could the Irish border bring down the Conservative government?"
and more recent
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... heresa-may" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"What are the risks for the DUP if it pulls the plug on Theresa May?"

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 9:44 am

I love it when the url is all you need to know

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... to-move-on" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ireland-no-go-ahead-for-brexit-talks-to-move-on

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 9:49 am

Morning

https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/uk-poverty ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 9:54 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/uk-poverty ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Brilliant!

The post in response to mine that is - not the poverty.

Post by **adam** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 9:58 am

On a part of last night's discussion - this is good, from 2014

America's Most Gerrymandered Districts

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 10:23 am

https://www.troyhunt.com/the-trouble-wi ... passwords/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The Trouble with Politicians Sharing Passwords

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 10:28 am

HindleA wrote:Morning

https://www.jrf.org.uk/press/uk-poverty ... ign=buffer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/uk-poverty-2017" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

BBC news described JRF as a 'left-leaning think tank' just now.

Yesterday on the Milburn story the line was, his term had expired in the summer, so was this sour grapes or political point-scoring?
The possibility that he was drawing attention to facts, wasn't discussed.

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 10:35 am

HindleA wrote:https://www.troyhunt.com/the-trouble-wi ... passwords/

The Trouble with Politicians Sharing Passwords

That's pretty comprehensive.
My own thought was, surely Green's situation is the best argument you can have for not sharing your password.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:14 am

gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:https://www.troyhunt.com/the-trouble-wi ... passwords/

The Trouble with Politicians Sharing Passwords
That's pretty comprehensive.
My own thought was, surely Green's situation is the best argument you can have for not sharing your password.

I mostly wonder how come he didn't notice copious amounts of porn downloaded on his computer until the police drew his attention to it. Because if he did notice there'd be a record of him reporting the breech to IT, one would assume. Interestingly no one seems to be disputing that there was porn on the computer (despite accusing the police of a witch hunt) which would tally more closely with his being innocent and unfairly accused, but instead going with the "it could have been someone else, you can't prove it was him approach". Because sharing passwords and not having a clue what other people are doing on your PC is all fine and dandy? We've gone from one minister in an embarrassing situation, to a whole host of Tory MPs admitting general lack of cyber security awareness and incompetence at the most basic level in order to cover up his embarrassing situation/astounding lack of cyber security and awareness of what was on his own computer. It's kind of funny, in a head-in-hands-omg-they're-running-the-country! kind of way.

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:34 am

Tony Connelly
@tconnellyRTE
BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews
11:16 am · 4 Dec 2017

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:40 am

Faisal Islam on Twitter

Ahead of Barnier consultation with European Parliament, source here in Brussels: “Ireland completely blocked - no progress”

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:41 am

Willow904 wrote:
Tony Connelly
@tconnellyRTE
BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews
11:16 am · 4 Dec 2017

So where will the regulatory divergence be?

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:43 am

This is the only place I've seen this story so far but, if true, the implications are massive:

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2017/120 ... otiations/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The UK has conceded to EU negotiators that there will be no divergence of the rules covering the EU single market and customs union on the island of Ireland post Brexit, according to a draft negotiating text seen by RTÉ News.

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:45 am

Tony Connelly‏Verified account
@tconnellyRTE
Follow Follow @tconnellyRTE
More
The draft text on Ireland has since been updated to include the phrase "continued regulatory alignment" rather than "no regulatory divergence", acc to well-placed sources

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:45 am

Morning all.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

David Allen Green‏
@davidallengreen
39s39 seconds ago
More
So we may have at last part of the answer to the question of "what does Brexit mean"?

If - if - reports are correct, Brexit means part of the UK in effect remaining in the Single Market.

Here "alignment" is the new all-important Brexit word.

Not sure how this will go down with the DUP...

Post by **PaulfromYorkshire** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:45 am

@Willow

I'm finding this all quite exciting. If I lived in parts of NI I would be terrified!

Willow904 · Post by **Willow904** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 11:50 am

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
Tony Connelly
@tconnellyRTE
BREAKING: UK will concede that there will be no "regulatory divergence" on the island of Ireland on the single market and customs union, acc to a draft text seen by @rtenews
11:16 am · 4 Dec 2017
So where will the regulatory divergence be?

The implication is the border will be the Irish Sea. Arlene Foster's strong words recently against such a solution appear to have been prompted by a sense that this was the way things were going. It is, in fact, the only way Theresa May can move negotiations on, so is plausible. The argument will be that this is a policy of last resort and the plan is still to use phantom technology and fairy tales to give everyone what they want, I suspect.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:21 pm

http://www.24housing.co.uk/news/poverty ... flounders/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:35 pm

Good-afternoon, everyone

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:39 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lynn-tweet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

unbelievable

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:43 pm

Sam Coates Times‏Verified account
@SamCoatesTimes
Follow Follow @SamCoatesTimes
More
NEW: At 4pm Gavin Barwell and Steve Baker are going to address Tory MPs in a committee room about the EU negotiation. (I suspect the Speaker would prefer it was a statement to Parliament but hey)

Good to see that they're regarding Parliamentary sovereignty as being top of their priorities...

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:45 pm

Steven McCaffery @SMcC_TheDetail

The DUP's Sammy Wilson on @BBCTalkback comes out against regulatory alignment on island of Ireland in draft #Brexit deal and says it would be vetoed at Stormont (presumably by DUP), even though there is no Stormont. Declines to speculate on deal with UK Govt.
12:19 PM - Dec 4, 2017

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(cJA emphasis)

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:47 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
Sam Coates Times‏Verified account
@SamCoatesTimes
Follow Follow @SamCoatesTimes
More
NEW: At 4pm Gavin Barwell and Steve Baker are going to address Tory MPs in a committee room about the EU negotiation. (I suspect the Speaker would prefer it was a statement to Parliament but hey)
Good to see that they're regarding Parliamentary sovereignty as being top of their priorities...

talking to a room of Tories alone isn't acceptable

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:54 pm

The list of things US and UK leadership should be working on for the benefit of people and world is huge
they've chosen to ignore what is good and devote themselves to failure

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 12:57 pm

Pretty much this...

Matthew Carson‏
@matthewcarson
32m32 minutes ago
More
Reminder that the UK started the Brexit negotiations offering no transition period, 20 billion euros maximum, and no special arrangements for NI. Now it’s 2/3 years transition, 60 billion euros, and special arrangements for NI. The Art Of The Deal, by Theresa May.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:12 pm

citizenJA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lynn-tweet

unbelievable

Unfortunately, its anything but.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:14 pm

"That is not our understanding of the UK Government's position."

<hysterical laughter emoticon>

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:20 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
citizenJA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... lynn-tweet

unbelievable
Unfortunately, its anything but.

I mean it's not credible, their excuses
this is silly

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:27 pm

This is not going to end well...

Laura Kuenssberg‏Verified account
@bbclaurak
Follow Follow @bbclaurak
More
Lord Trimble 'I'm scratching my head', but if details of what we expect are right, 'it's a thoroughly bad idea'

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:33 pm

For some reason I have that old football chant "you don't know what you're doing" stuck in my head right now.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:39 pm

Zing!

Nicola Sturgeon‏Verified account
@NicolaSturgeon
Follow Follow @NicolaSturgeon
More
If one part of UK can retain regulatory alignment with EU and effectively stay in the single market (which is the right solution for Northern Ireland) there is surely no good practical reason why others can’t.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:41 pm

She wants a hard border between England and Scotland? Or the whole UK to stay in?

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:42 pm

[youtube]quqj2YNG2vA[/youtube]

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:43 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:For some reason I have that old football chant "you don't know what you're doing" stuck in my head right now.

I think they do know. The scale of the climbdown is so spectacular, they have to obfuscate and look silly.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 1:58 pm

why are unelected blowhards given interviews with media while our elected leaders run riot?

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:06 pm

Tubby Isaacs wrote:She wants a hard border between England and Scotland? Or the whole UK to stay in?

She wants to highlight the absurdity of the situation, I'd say.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:09 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... c-violence" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MoJ scraps legal aid restrictions for victims of domestic violence

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:22 pm

citizenJA wrote:why are unelected blowhards given interviews with media while our elected leaders run riot?

Because the BBC in particular have become complacent and lazy? That matters at least as much as any actual bias, tbh.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:23 pm

http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... als-17-19/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

ATOS, Maximus and Capita questioned on ‘gruelling’ medical assessments

"Neither contractor has, at any point in the PIP contract, met the performance target of 3% of reports deemed "unacceptable".
Capita's own auditing found that at points in the contract almost 60% of its reports were "unacceptable"."

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:24 pm

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:31 pm

Robert Peston says Theresa May is “taking the risk of her political life”. (He’s forgotten about about the election, obviously.)

Well said, Andrew!

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:33 pm

Oh dear...

Nigel Farage‏Verified account
@Nigel_Farage
Follow Follow @Nigel_Farage
More
This UK Government’s bitter betrayal of 17.4 million people today is a concession too far, for it will lead to endless problems in Scotland and it damages the integrity of the United Kingdom.
1:51 PM - 4 Dec 2017

I wonder how many of those 17.4m people thought this was going to be easy?

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:46 pm

Well a lot of them were told it would be by the likes of him

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 2:54 pm

So what happens now?

BBC News (UK)‏Verified account
@BBCNews
49m49 minutes ago
More
"Northern Ireland must leave the EU on the same terms as the rest of the UK, we will not accept any form of regulatory divergence" - DUP leader Arlene Foster on #Brexit talks http://bbc.in/2BGUOJl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bonnylad · Post by **Bonnylad** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 3:04 pm

Under
New
Initiative
Clueless
Officials
Ruin
Nigel:)

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 3:04 pm

Oh. This happens...from the ex head of the FCO...

Peter Ricketts‏
@LordRickettsP
Follow Follow @LordRickettsP
More Peter Ricketts Retweeted Laura Kuenssberg
If we concede “regulatory alignment” in Ireland, and there can be no border within the UK, then surely this dramatically curtails scope for UK free trade agreements with others like US? #Brexit

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 3:07 pm

gilsey wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:She wants a hard border between England and Scotland? Or the whole UK to stay in?
She wants to highlight the absurdity of the situation, I'd say.

Fair point.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 3:10 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh. This happens...from the ex head of the FCO...

Peter Ricketts‏
@LordRickettsP
Follow Follow @LordRickettsP
More Peter Ricketts Retweeted Laura Kuenssberg
If we concede “regulatory alignment” in Ireland, and there can be no border within the UK, then surely this dramatically curtails scope for UK free trade agreements with others like US? #Brexit

It's one in the eye for chlorinated chicken etc. I suppose if we're concentrating on services, not a big problem.

Tubby Isaacs · Post by **Tubby Isaacs** » Mon 04 Dec, 2017 3:13 pm

Northern Ireland could have uniquely positive status, open to the UK and EU. It's unionists (apart from the Alliance) would rather arse about with flags.