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Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 7:10 am
by refitman
Morning all.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:14 am
by PorFavor
Good morfternoon.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:21 am
by RogerOThornhill
Morning all.
Peter Walker‏Verified account
@peterwalker99
12m12 minutes ago
More
Having a bad morning? Well, you could be David Davis, who in ten minutes has to explain to the Brexit select committee why the Brexit impact assessments are in fact a few hastily-scrawled post-it notes tied up with old string.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:26 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
David Davis defending his impact statements now

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Inde ... 75507a319b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:28 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
The government has NOT carried out any impact assessments.

NOT on any sectors

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:32 am
by adam
Bojo
We will come up with a solution but the important thing is that that solution can only be discovered in the context of discussions on the end-state of the UK’s relations with the rest of the EU.
So he's asking for the resignation of the team who agreed that we could not move on to trade talks until the three initial questions were resolved to the satisfaction of all members of the EU?

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:36 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Don't conclude that if you have looked at the impact that you have written an impact assessment.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:39 am
by RogerOThornhill
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Don't conclude that if you have looked at the impact that you have written an impact assessment.
Yes, Peter Walker is struggling with this too.
Peter Walker‏Verified account
@peterwalker99
11m11 minutes ago
More
David Davis tells Brexit committee that Brexit impact assessments are “not a forecast of the outcome of leaving the EU, or various options thereof". Not 100% clear what they are.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:40 am
by adam
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Don't conclude that if you have looked at the impact that you have written an impact assessment.
I was actually going to say 'just because you have assessed the impact of something it doesn't follow that you have carried out an impact assessment'. That appears to be what he's saying.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:48 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
adam wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Don't conclude that if you have looked at the impact that you have written an impact assessment.
I was actually going to say 'just because you have assessed the impact of something it doesn't follow that you have carried out an impact assessment'. That appears to be what he's saying.
Exactly.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 9:53 am
by Willow904
David Lammy
@DavidLammy
·
7m
David Davis just told @CommonsEUexit - we have not done "a quantitative economic forecast of outcome" of Brexit. "The Government has not written an impact assessment". Read my thread below and see how many times the Government has misled Parliament and the public:
David Lammy
@DavidLammy
Thread: at 09:30 @CommonsEUexit meeting to discuss redacted and edited Brexit economic impact assessments. Is Govnt in contempt of Parliament? Did the Govnt mislead Parliament and the public? Did the reports ever exist in the first place? Let's look at the evidence (1)
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:08 am
by PorFavor
Is this really happening - or am I still asleep and dreaming it all?

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:18 am
by adam
One way this could well be spun
Jacob Rees-Mogg, a Conservative, says is is concerned about the government honouring parliament. If these impact assessments did not exist, the government did not have to publish anything, did it?
Davis agrees.
Q: So the government has generously gone beyond what was required?
Davis accepts that.
Rees-Mogg says the government looked at the wording of “an incompetent motion” and did its best to comply.
Which is astonishing, but not surprising.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:19 am
by RogerOThornhill
I've just seen that ^^^

Words fail.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:23 am
by Willow904
PorFavor wrote:Is this really happening - or am I still asleep and dreaming it all?
The BBC are focusing on the lack of proper impact assessments, which is bad enough, rather than David Davis repeatedly lying to and misleading parliament, which in normal circumstances would lead to him resigning in disgrace. Now we're down the rabbit hole, who knows what will happen. He'll probably get promoted to Chancellor or something.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:35 am
by gilsey
Willow904 wrote: The BBC are focusing on the lack of proper impact assessments, which is bad enough, rather than David Davis repeatedly lying to and misleading parliament,
That was very noticeable just now.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:37 am
by gilsey
Richard Graham, a Conservative, goes next.

Q: How would you be able to do an impact assessment for the financial sector without know what the Brexit outcome will be, or whether there will be a free trade deal with the US?

With difficulty, Davis says. He says it would be very hard because there are so many potential outcomes.
:wall:

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:39 am
by gilsey
We're the laughing stock of Europe and only Trump is stopping us being the laughing stock of the developed world.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:40 am
by PorFavor
David Blevins

@skydavidblevins

BREAK: DUP sources confirm party leader Arlene Foster currently speaking to the Prime Minister on the phone. #Brexit
10:31 AM - Dec 6, 2017 (Politics Live, Guardian)

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:50 am
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... hite-house" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Trump to recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capital and move US embassy

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:56 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Is there a PMQs today?

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 10:58 am
by HindleA
Yes


https://calendar.parliament.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:12 am
by HindleA
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:15 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Q1 Will she dismiss her Brexit Secretary?

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:25 am
by Willow904
Most people are assuming the sectoral assessments never existed, but logically we only know that David Davis has made contradictory statements - that there are sectoral impact asessments in "excruciating detail" and that no sectoral impact assessments exist. How do we know for sure, however, which statement is true? Were there never any assessments and he mislead when he said there were? Or do they exist and after getting caught out by a parliamentary motion forcing him to hand them over Davis is misleading us now about their existence to cover up the fact he is still withholding them?
Do we have any real way to know for sure?

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:28 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Corbyn should IMHO ask for Davis to be sacked. Look at these from the Heil (bottom) and Torygraph!

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:33 am
by RogerOThornhill
Willow904 wrote:Most people are assuming the sectoral assessments never existed, but logically we only know that David Davis has made contradictory statements - that there are sectoral impact asessments in "excruciating detail" and that no sectoral impact assessments exist. How do we know for sure, however, which statement is true? Were there never any assessments and he mislead when he said there were? Or do they exist and after getting caught out by a parliamentary motion forcing him to hand them over Davis is misleading us now about their existence to cover up the fact he is still withholding them?
Do we have any real way to know for sure?
Schrödinger's Impact Assessments.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:44 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
David Lammy‏Verified account
@DavidLammy
1h1 hour ago
More
David Lammy Retweeted BBC Politics
At what point is @DavidDavisMP going to be held to account for such blatant lying? He must surely now resign. He simply can not be allowed to go around lying to Parliament and the British public in this way. Mendacious, conceited, vain, duplicitous, wholly unfit for office.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:45 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
And the Sun

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:46 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
Davis is surely toast.

#PMQs

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 11:49 am
by PorFavor
DUP should be directly involved in Brexit talks, Foster says
Henry McDonald

DUP Arlene Foster was due to ask Theresa May if her party can have a seat at the Brexit negotiations.

Foster was likely to raise that prospect with the prime minister today. Ahead of her phone call to May, the former first minister of Northern Ireland said:

There is a need for us to be directly involved. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 12:04 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Would be interested to see how DD's odds for next Tory leader have moved recently :twisted:

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 12:46 pm
by RogerOThornhill
Faisal Islam‏Verified account
@faisalislam
Follow Follow @faisalislam
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PM brandishes a leaflet where a candidate did claim that Labour would cancel student debt
:roll:

Christ, that's desperate.

"Your minister lied about having impact assessments"
"Yes but look what someone said about student debt!"

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 12:58 pm
by NonOxCol
Should be higher:

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Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:00 pm
by NonOxCol
He said, after a nice jog with Tony Gallagher.

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Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:15 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Faisal Islam‏Verified account
@faisalislam
Follow Follow @faisalislam
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PM brandishes a leaflet where a candidate did claim that Labour would cancel student debt
:roll:

Christ, that's desperate.

"Your minister lied about having impact assessments"
"Yes but look what someone said about student debt!"
And what is even sadder is that so many hacks were impressed by it :toss:

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:23 pm
by NonOxCol
FUCK ME!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, but....HONESTLY. Even for him.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:25 pm
by HindleA
https://www.local.gov.uk/about/news/lga ... s-children" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

LGA responds to Shelter report on homeless children

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:27 pm
by citizenJA
RogerOThornhill wrote:
Faisal Islam‏Verified account
@faisalislam
Follow Follow @faisalislam
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PM brandishes a leaflet where a candidate did claim that Labour would cancel student debt
:roll:

Christ, that's desperate.

"Your minister lied about having impact assessments"
"Yes but look what someone said about student debt!"
This won't do. May's got an incapacity for reasonable engagement and her ministers can't resolve significant difficulty. This government is dysfunctional.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 1:41 pm
by citizenJA
NonOxCol wrote:FUCK ME!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, but....HONESTLY. Even for him.
Fraser's support for this Tory Brexit is utterly dismaying. I don't share his religious affiliation but I admired some of his past work. I can't make heads or tails out of the man at this point. I'm staggered by it.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:13 pm
by adam
Seema Malhotra: Could I ask you another question? You have answered that question; that was very helpful. Has the Prime Minister seen the impact assessments that have been published, yes or no?
Mr Davis: The details of them? Sorry, did you say “have been published”?
Seema Malhotra: Sorry, I am just asking whether she has seen the impact assessments. A yes or no answer is fine.
Mr Davis: Which ones? I will give a proper answer; I do not give yes/no answers.
Seema Malhotra: I mean the impact assessments that you have not published.
Mr Davis: That we have not published?
Seema Malhotra: Yes.
Mr Davis: She will know the summary outcomes of them. She will not necessarily have read every single one. They are in excruciating detail.
Select Committee on Exiting the European Union Oral evidence: The progress of the UK's negotiations on EU withdrawal, HC372 Wednesday 25th October 2017

It's Q131 near the bottom of the page.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:20 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Talk of a Commons censure motion against Davis now......

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:23 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
Ross Greer‏Verified account
@Ross_Greer
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Replying to @Bluesprints @scotgp
I can't do that from Holyrood but I'm aware that moves are afoot at Westminster for a vote of no confidence in David Davis.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:23 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
Snap AK (I think)

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:28 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
citizenJA wrote:
NonOxCol wrote:FUCK ME!

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sorry, but....HONESTLY. Even for him.
Fraser's support for this Tory Brexit is utterly dismaying. I don't share his religious affiliation but I admired some of his past work. I can't make heads or tails out of the man at this point. I'm staggered by it.
He is as monomaniacal as some of the #STOPBREXIT brigade on the other side.

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 2:41 pm
by RogerOThornhill
More
Philip Hammond says Cabinet has not formally agreed a Brexit "end state" for the UK.
He told the Treasury Select Committee: "We haven't had a specific mandating of an end state position."
:lol:

Who on earth goes into negotiations without knowing what they're trying to aim for at the end?

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 3:11 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
Well, don't the figures show that calling off Brexit is the best position for the public finances?

I guess beyond that the desired position is as "good as it can be".

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 3:13 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
A fair amount of debate online about whether Heidi Allen's tears yesterday were "real".

FWIW my view is that her distress was genuine, but it still doesn't mean much unless she is willing to back it up with actions :twisted:

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 3:16 pm
by PorFavor
Faisal Islam

@faisalislam

Understand Brexit Committee reconvening soon to debate its view on whether Davis fulfilled terms of binding resolution on impact studies or whether it is contempt
2:47 PM - Dec 6, 2017 (Politics Live, Guardian)

Re: Wednesday 6th December 2017

Posted: Wed 06 Dec, 2017 3:19 pm
by HindleA
http://www.parliament.uk/business/commi ... embership/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;