FlyTheNest

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning!

So, as expected, May has found so solutions to the Irish border problem, nor even proposes any.

Just a fudge. A form of wording.

48 The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom’s intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all- island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.

==49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its GUARANTEE OF AVOIDING A HARD BORDER. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the allisland economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.==

50 In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

HindleA wrote:Morning


https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -landlords" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Four in 10 right-to-buy homes are now owned by private landlords

40.2% of housing stock sold by councils to then tenants are now rented out, rising to 70.9% in Milton Keynes, which it dubs the “right-to-buy-to-let capital” of England.

Seven councils – Milton Keynes, Bolsover, Brighton & Hove, Canterbury, Cheshire West and Chester, Stevenage, and Nuneaton & Bedworth – have letting levels of more than 50% among former council-owned homes.

frog222 wrote:

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Morning!

So, as expected, May has found so solutions to the Irish border problem, nor even proposes any.

Just a fudge. A form of wording.

Fudge agreed .

48 The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its guarantee of avoiding a hard border. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom’s intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the all- island economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.

==49. The United Kingdom remains committed to protecting North-South cooperation and to its GUARANTEE OF AVOIDING A HARD BORDER. Any future arrangements must be compatible with these overarching requirements. The United Kingdom's intention is to achieve these objectives through the overall EU-UK relationship. Should this not be possible, the United Kingdom will propose specific solutions to address the unique circumstances of the island of Ireland. In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the Internal Market and the Customs Union which, now or in the future, support North-South cooperation, the allisland economy and the protection of the 1998 Agreement.==

50 In the absence of agreed solutions, as set out in the previous paragraph, the United Kingdom will ensure that no new regulatory barriers develop between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom, unless, consistent with the 1998 Agreement, the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly agree that distinct arrangements are appropriate for Northern Ireland. In all circumstances, the United Kingdom will continue to ensure the same unfettered access for Northern Ireland’s businesses to the whole of the United Kingdom internal market.

Edited to add paras 48 and 50 BINO is a new one to me !

5. Under the caveat that nothing is agreed until everything is agreed, the joint commitments set out below in this joint report shall be reflected in the Withdrawal Agreement in full detail. This does not prejudge any adaptations that might be appropriate in case transitional arrangements were to be agreed in the second phase of the negotiations, and is without prejudice to discussions on the framework of the future relationship.

"" @wesstreeting

Relieved we're onto phase two, but notice people with opposing viewpoints on longer-term relationship with EU are cheering the same section of text. Creative ambiguity means big battles still ahead.
8:55 AM - Dec 8, 2017 ""

09:08
Anushka Asthana
Lots of Labour politicians are making the argument that this morning’s deal still leaves us with the same difficulties in the second phase - and they believe it is now more likely we remain within the EU economic structures. One MP, Stephen Doughty, tells me:

The only way that full alignment can be achieved is remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market. It has been clear all along that you can’t have your cake and eat it in these negotiations. This is where reality bites. Perhaps now the absurdity of a no deal scenario and crashing out will finally be taken of the table by the Brextremists.

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Have we, basically, got the Irish soft\hard question still to come (given that "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed")? Or has that changed? I'm as confused as I ever was.

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Have we, basically, got the Irish soft\hard question still to come (given that "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed")? Or has that changed? I'm as confused as I ever was.

That's what I understand.

BUT, given nobody at all has come close to even a part solution to the problem (unless I'm missing something) the reality is that as long as this agreement remains in force Hard Brexit is de facto ruled out.

So, the question seems to be how long will it take for the Hard Brexiteers to realise this and, in their rage, to attempt to topple May?

frog222 wrote:---
Down to a fresh breeze, time to unplug self from the internet and go outside .

gilsey wrote:Reading through Politics Live, I feel as if I've been required to believe six impossible things before breakfast.

We're supposed to congratulate May for succeeding in kicking the can down the road, apparently.

If the tory 'bastards' are going to cave in to this 'regulatory alignment', what the hell was it all for?

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Basically this is about Brexiteers taking 18 months to recognise realities that should have been evident the day after the referendum.

Better late than never, I suppose.......

The Ulster Unionists have made life a little easier for their rivals in the DUP in terms of ‘selling’ the latest deal on Brexit and the Irish border.

Veteran Ulster Unionist (UUP) MEP Jim Nicholson welcomed the latest arrangement but warned that pro-union people across the UK would not accept any measures on trade that would disconnect Northern Ireland from Britain. (Politics Live, Guardian)

PorFavor wrote:Good morfternoon.

Have we, basically, got the Irish soft\hard question still to come (given that "nothing is agreed until everything is agreed")? Or has that changed? I'm as confused as I ever was.

The new text offers guarantees that Northern Ireland will have regulatory alignment with the Republic, but that in such an event no obstacles to trade will emerge between Northern Ireland and the UK. Earlier this week, Davis had suggested this would be undertaken by continued alignment of the whole of the UK with the EU.
---
“In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union which, now or in the future, support north-south cooperation, the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 agreement ...
---
On citizens’ rights, both sides said the agreement would ensure that EU nationals in the UK would retain the same rights after Brexit as they enjoyed before.

May said the agreement on the estimated €60bn (£52bn) financial settlement was “fair to the British taxpayer” but would ensure the UK could spend more money on its own priorities such a “housing, schools and the NHS”.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... o-brussels" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tubby Isaacs wrote:Well, there's a deal then.

I wasn't sure it would happen, but it has and I think Labour are now in a difficult position. They've known the realities for yonks, and haven't told people. They could be sitting here today saying "we told you so".

Turns out the Tories this week weren't "making a mistake" from which they shouldn't be interrupted. They were being sensible. And Labour will have to vote for May's "hard won" deal.

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:The counter to our joy that Hard Brexit may be slipping away is that, sadly, a political space has just opened up that will I fear be occupied by Nigel Farage

PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Lib Dems picked up a council seat from Con in Devon last night.

And a reason to be cheerful about politics - there are still some!

Britain Elects‏
@britainelects
11h11 hours ago
More
Enfield Highway (Enfield) result:

LAB: 69.8% (+23.1)
CON: 26.7% (+7.4)
GRN: 3.4% (-6.0)

No UKIP (-17.8) and BNP (-6.7) as prev.

My emphasis - that's the part I'm most cheerful about

Jean-Claude Juncker
@JunckerEU
It's done. @EU_Commission and #Japan finalised negotiations of the Economic Partnership Agreement between the #EU and Japan today - a powerful political signal to the world, keeping the flag of free and fair trade high:

EU officials have made it clear that Theresa May’s suggestion that the transition period is in reality an implementation period, during which future arrangements such as customs checks could be introduced, is incorrect.

There will be a “cliff edge” at the end of the transition period unless a future trade deal is in place by then, a senior EU official said.”

There will still be in the absence of the agreement a sort of cliff edge at the end of the transition period”, the source said (Politics Live, Guardian)

PorFavor wrote:

EU officials have made it clear that Theresa May’s suggestion that the transition period is in reality an implementation period, during which future arrangements such as customs checks could be introduced, is incorrect.

There will be a “cliff edge” at the end of the transition period unless a future trade deal is in place by then, a senior EU official said.”

There will still be in the absence of the agreement a sort of cliff edge at the end of the transition period”, the source said (Politics Live, Guardian)

Jeremy Corbyn‏Verified account
@jeremycorbyn
Eighteen months on from the referendum, @Theresa_May has scraped through phase one. Tory chaos and posturing has caused damaging delay and risked serious harm to our economy. We need a much stronger and more constructive approach in crucial phase two.

'No transition deal for Gibraltar'
Daniel Boffey

Daniel Boffey

As it stands, Gibraltar will not enjoy the cushion a transition period, EU officials confirmed, and will drop out of the Single Market and the Customs Union when the UK leaves the bloc on 29 March 2019.

EU officials confirmed the Guardian’s story last month that an arrangement over the future of the rock needs to be struck between Spain and the UK, if the transition arrangement is to be extended to Gibraltar. (Politics Live, Guardian)

Jeremy Hunt
✔
@Jeremy_Hunt
Extraordinary achievement by @theresa_may today. Against all odds a deal delivered that confirms she is probably the only person in Britain able to deliver a good & clean Brexit
07:09 - 8 Dec 2017

Tubby Isaacs wrote:The mischief makers needed Cabinet resignations by this stage. They'll likely be happy with May's head, to line up on pikes with the other departed traitors, like Ted Heath, John Major, Tony Blair etc. Did they ever want the responsibility anyway? Euroscepticism is "country's going to the dogs" moaning into pints stuff.

Starmer's twitter feed doesn't exactly proclaim "We told you so", does it?

This Brexit deal should be celebrated – let the church bells ring
Michael Fabricant

My red lines are the freedom to agree trade worldwide, control over our borders, and supremacy of our law. Today’s agreement meets those tests
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... border-law" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;