The Legal Services are GREAT campaign is part of the government’s plan to make the most of opportunities which arise as the UK leaves the European Union and promote an outward leaning Global Britain, which upholds and underpins the rule of law across the world.
Nicky Morgan and Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lord Robert Winston combating Isabel Oakeshot + another and approx 50% of the Yorkshire audience.
Thanks to Sky'sGoneOut for commenting last night I looked it up as thankfully! i don't have a TV. Watched so far the first 30 minutes.
Ok well I think tonight's Question Time proved a splendid example of just how messed up politics in this country is at the moment. The first half was entirely about Brexit, which as I've said largely took the form of ill informed idiots shouting at Nicky Morgan, it was a complete waste of time. The second half involved a discussion on homelessness (amongst other things) and was entirely more reasonable, non shouty and frankly sane. The highlight being a landlord claiming he was the real victim because of all the tax he had to pay. You can imagine how well that went down.
Brexit is sucking the life out of political discourse in this country to the detriment of everything else. And I don't know what to do about it, in fact I'm as guilty as anyone of popping over to the Guardian when bored and mocking Brexiters for a quick and easy fix of feeling smart and righteous. When in fact all I'm doing is wasting my own time and energy getting one over on some thick fuck from Barnsley or wherever. How smart is that? Who is the idiot in that situation? I'm going to take a break from it all...until at least tomorrow.
Agreed on the divisiveness, but I wouldn't call half of the audience thick and idiots . It wasn't as bad as I feared, from SGO !
I gave up arguing btl some time ago because it doesn't change minds , but appreciate serious commenters who add to our understanding.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 9:41 am
by adam
frog222 wrote:I gave up arguing btl some time ago because it doesn't change minds , but appreciate serious commenters who add to our understanding.
There's an argument that you don't comment online to argue with the other commenters, you comment online for the benefit of people who read but don't comment to reassure them that everyone doesn't think like the other commenters.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 9:57 am
by PorFavor
Good morfternoon.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:02 am
by frog222
adam wrote:
frog222 wrote:I gave up arguing btl some time ago because it doesn't change minds , but appreciate serious commenters who add to our understanding.
There's an argument that you don't comment online to argue with the other commenters, you comment online for the benefit of people who read but don't comment to reassure them that everyone doesn't think like the other commenters.
If I don't have anything new to add, I usually don't clutter up the thread , I do recc though
Commenting for its own sake is just a sport, such as BB's popping off "to bash the fash" !
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:05 am
by PaulfromYorkshire
I think posting can also help me sharpen my own arguments.
Though I'm not sure I'm demonstrating any very significant benefits yet!
Fran Unsworth appointed BBC head of news
Head of World Service Group to take up role as director of news and current affairs after departure of James Harding
The Legal Services are GREAT campaign is part of the government’s plan to make the most of opportunities which arise as the UK leaves the European Union and promote an outward leaning Global Britain, which upholds and underpins the rule of law across the world.
I was hoping that was a joke, but feared it wasn't. Embarrassing.
The Legal Services are GREAT campaign is part of the government’s plan to make the most of opportunities which arise as the UK leaves the European Union and promote an outward leaning Global Britain, which upholds and underpins the rule of law across the world.
I was hoping that was a joke, but feared it wasn't. Embarrassing.
I thought GREAT was an acronym. But it isn't. Is it?
Fran Unsworth appointed BBC head of news
Head of World Service Group to take up role as director of news and current affairs after departure of James Harding
Ah, the "safe pair of hands" option - probably not the worst decision in the circumstances.
Justine Greening unveils plans to boost support for new teachers
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 10:48 am
by HindleA
@PF we could make one up.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 11:02 am
by frog222
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think posting can also help me sharpen my own arguments.
Though I'm not sure I'm demonstrating any very significant benefits yet!
Hehe
Actually I am sure that it is not the posting , but the act of writing itself, whether shared or not .
I've repeatedly noticed it in myself that once I get going there's a sort of excitation of the subconscious that unblocks ideas/thoughts/memories which had been stocked away there. Also, once you begin to put things down on paper ( or now the screen) they can be re-read and criticised, which can lead to an evolution of thought .
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 11:07 am
by HindleA
There isn't much thought behind my posts,it has to be said though.
I have never had much evolution on that front since young,I hate the Tory party and would much rather be bemoaning a Labour Government is basically it.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 11:08 am
by AnatolyKasparov
Didn't see QT last night (have barely looked at it for years) but it seems Barnsley was "right wing" on Brexit, but "left wing" on almost everything else. Which does rather neatly sum up the tightrope that Labour have had to negotiate on this issue (whatever else the #STOPBREXIT gang on Twitter might assert with total certainty)
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 11:15 am
by HindleA
Agree,have to say as well Brexit is not dominant in my World,certainly other issues,more immediate for many are of more concern,so it is the relativity factor as to importance.People can bewail "but they should reprioritise/call them thick" etc as much as they like but that is the situation.
The Tories are savaging libraries – and closing the book on social mobility
John Harris
Since 2010, more than 478 libraries have closed in England, Wales and Scotland. It’s the old Tory con: talk up advancement, then attack the institutions that make it possible
I've been having a lot of conversations along these lines lately, as our library is set to go. Hard to argue to keep it, if the money has to come from social care, fostering, or homelessness services etc. But the underhand way they're (Tory council) doing it - "we aren't closing any libraries, we're offering local communities the exciting opportunity to pay for and run libraries all by themselves" - really irks, especially when we're constantly fobbed off over the exclusive online access to universal credit that people can access computers for free at their local library - not for much longer, they can't.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 12:07 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
Labour's best hope is to call cuts "Tory Brexit cuts". Tax rises are "Tory Brexit tax rises" etc.
Big Phil Hammond setting aside £3bn for hard Brexit preparation should have been a gift. How do you save most of that £3bn? Soft Brexit. You front up about freedom of movement, sooner rather than later.
The Tories are savaging libraries – and closing the book on social mobility
John Harris
Since 2010, more than 478 libraries have closed in England, Wales and Scotland. It’s the old Tory con: talk up advancement, then attack the institutions that make it possible
I've been having a lot of conversations along these lines lately, as our library is set to go. Hard to argue to keep it, if the money has to come from social care, fostering, or homelessness services etc. But the underhand way they're (Tory council) doing it - "we aren't closing any libraries, we're offering local communities the exciting opportunity to pay for and run libraries all by themselves" - really irks, especially when we're constantly fobbed off over the exclusive online access to universal credit that people can access computers for free at their local library - not for much longer, they can't.
When my local Conservative council went through their first big reorganisation of things back around 2010/11, after closing the central reference library and moving most of its contents into storage but some of them into the main lending library next door (which also had more things moved to storage to accommodate the move) - they had the nerve to announce this as 'At last - all of your library services under one roof'.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 12:10 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
If Barnsley still wants to worry about Poles in East Anglia, or anywhere else nowhere near Barnsley, it can put the Tories in.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 12:40 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
I've been looking at a report called 'Re-energising Europe'.
I was struck by the Figure below. I think the truth is that, across the continent, the EU hasn't worked as well for ordinary folk as it has for the better off. They certainly don't feel it has.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 12:40 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
Tubby Isaacs wrote:If Barnsley still wants to worry about Poles in East Anglia, or anywhere else nowhere near Barnsley, it can put the Tories in.
As ever, I don't think we should take shouty people on Question Time as representative of much save themselves.
Even as this programme was made, Labour was getting a big increase in its vote in a Barnsley by-election. The area isn't voting Tory any time soon.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 12:41 pm
by citizenJA
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think posting can also help me sharpen my own arguments.
Though I'm not sure I'm demonstrating any very significant benefits yet!
You're demonstrating significant benefits by posting and I thank you for your work.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 12:44 pm
by citizenJA
Thank you, friends, for your constructive posts and writing
Without community support I'd be up a tree
The Legal Services are GREAT campaign is part of the government’s plan to make the most of opportunities which arise as the UK leaves the European Union and promote an outward leaning Global Britain, which upholds and underpins the rule of law across the world.
I was hoping that was a joke, but feared it wasn't. Embarrassing.
Whether you are expanding your business, establishing operations in new markets or drafting contracts, the UK legal sector is on hand to support your commercial interests at home and abroad.
English law is pro-business
English law is the most popular choice of law in the world for commercial contracts and it governs about 40% of all global corporate arbitrations.
English law provides the clarity, flexibility and certainty that your business needs.
Yes, siree, the best law and justice money can buy
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 1:02 pm
by PorFavor
citizenJA wrote:Thank you, friends, for your constructive posts and writing
Without community support I'd be up a tree
Good-afternoon, everyone
[youtube]im3saZsxvqY[/youtube]
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 1:03 pm
by citizenJA
frog222 wrote:---
I've repeatedly noticed it in myself that once I get going there's a sort of excitation of the subconscious that unblocks ideas/thoughts/memories which had been stocked away there. Also, once you begin to put things down on paper ( or now the screen) they can be re-read and criticised, which can lead to an evolution of thought .
(cJA edit)
I do the same.
I also often use my writing as documentation, finding dates when something important happened.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 1:17 pm
by citizenJA
@PorFavor
Haven't listened to that song for ages
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 1:22 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Tubby Isaacs wrote:If Barnsley still wants to worry about Poles in East Anglia, or anywhere else nowhere near Barnsley, it can put the Tories in.
As ever, I don't think we should take shouty people on Question Time as representative of much save themselves.
Even as this programme was made, Labour was getting a big increase in its vote in a Barnsley by-election. The area isn't voting Tory any time soon.
I was suggesting that Barnsley wasn't likely to put the Tories in. But there are other places that might. I think it's well worth running that risk now, and will pay dividends whether the Tories cave in ("told you so") or don't ("there goes your hip replacement").
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 1:28 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
The Tories reckoned they could do a "culture war" Solid South sweep for Labour "heartland" voters. But it didn't work. Labour can stop worrying about that now.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 1:46 pm
by SpinningHugo
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Didn't see QT last night (have barely looked at it for years) but it seems Barnsley was "right wing" on Brexit, but "left wing" on almost everything else. Which does rather neatly sum up the tightrope that Labour have had to negotiate on this issue (whatever else the #STOPBREXIT gang on Twitter might assert with total certainty)
Depends what you mean.
Electorally, Labour's best position is the one it has adopted: just slightly more Remain-y than the Tories.
However, just focusing on that is game playing. I don't follow sport, but it is the kind of thing football fans focus on.
Better to focus on what actually matters for the people Labour is supposed to represent in my opinion.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 2:25 pm
by PorFavor
Here we go again -
May insists talks to start immeidiately
The prime minister has told reporters that phase two Brexit talks will start straight away, despite Jean-Claude Juncker saying they will commence in March next year. (Politics Live, Guardian)
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 2:28 pm
by PaulfromYorkshire
So, Corbyn who isn't pragmatic and real world enough to be Labour leader is, err, too pragmatic and unprincipled with Brexit.
OK Xmas drinks beckon
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 2:32 pm
by PorFavor
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:So, Corbyn who isn't pragmatic and real world enough to be Labour leader is, err, too pragmatic and unprincipled with Brexit.
OK Xmas drinks beckon
Watch out for the tablecloths.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 2:53 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:So, Corbyn who isn't pragmatic and real world enough to be Labour leader is, err, too pragmatic and unprincipled with Brexit.
Schrodinger's Jez
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 3:09 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
I don't think it's pragmatic. I think he's stuck supporting whatever Theresa May agrees, without making serious statements about what keep us in the Single Market.
The only way to fix Universal Credit is to scrap it altogether
Yes and quickly, while the old systems are still more or less intact. Listening to Tories claim they "designed it that way" when faced with the farce that means people getting an extra weekly pay packet 4 times a year get reduced benefits or thrown off UC altogether, even though their circumstances haven't changed, it's impossible to ignore the fact that the "principles" behind the whole rotten system appear far from laudable. Time to stop crediting Tories with honourable intentions and call them out on designing a system that has deliberately made the lives of those least well off much worse than they need to be at great expense to the tax payer in failed IT and unnecessary conditionality bureaucracy.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 5:34 pm
by SpinningHugo
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:So, Corbyn who isn't pragmatic and real world enough to be Labour leader is, err, too pragmatic and unprincipled with Brexit.
OK Xmas drinks beckon
He doesn't really support Remain. Do try to keep up.
The only way to fix Universal Credit is to scrap it altogether
I can find nothing in the article to disagree with.
See also hindlea's link first up.
It doesn't seem likely to achieve any of its avowed objectives, in fact it increasingly reminds me of Lansley's NHS reorganisation. Making everything worse at vast expense.
The only way to fix Universal Credit is to scrap it altogether
I can find nothing in the article to disagree with.
I can actually.
We cannot call this for what it is because it would traduce the good intentions of those behind it.
We surely don't accept that IDS' intentions were good?
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 5:51 pm
by citizenJA
@gilsey
No, I don't accept that IDS' intentions were good
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 5:57 pm
by gilsey
Interesting blog about transport investment on the face of it, but also the north-south divide. http://tomforth.co.uk/wheretrustinexpertsdies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Every big UK city already has, and could design, billions of £s worth of schemes with a higher BCR than Thameslink. But they haven't been funded in the past and they wouldn't be funded now. As we speak, the government is cancelling many of the few such schemes it approved in the past. This is not because the schemes' BCRs are too low, remember they only need to beat the 1.4 of Thameslink, but because the investments would not directly benefit London.
And this is my worry about boosting BCRs in poorer places with a rebalancing toolkit, or a wider-economic benefits toolkit, or an agglomeration-model supplement, or something else. Our current system has for the past three decades ignored the data. How will improving the data help?
The change that really needs to happen is that we start using BCRs. The UK government needs to admits that it doesn't do so currently. It needs to show that it understands why it doesn't. Then it needs to change.
To put it more simply, Northern Schemes have deserved higher investment for three decades, and the money was spent in London anyway. Why will making them yet more deserving make a difference?
His bold.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 5:58 pm
by AnatolyKasparov
SpinningHugo wrote:
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:So, Corbyn who isn't pragmatic and real world enough to be Labour leader is, err, too pragmatic and unprincipled with Brexit.
OK Xmas drinks beckon
He doesn't really support Remain. Do try to keep up.
A question for you (and nobody else I have put it to has been able to answer this definitively)
When was the last time (before the referendum, to avoid any "clever" answers) that Labour's present leader supported, explicitly and unambiguously, our leaving the EU?
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 6:13 pm
by Tubby Isaacs
Sacking people for wanting to stay in the Single Market. That's leaving the EEA, not just the EU. Nobody would have cared about the Minister for paper clips voting for that.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 6:16 pm
by citizenJA
Corbyn responded to a hypothetical question about whether or not he'd vote Remain in a second EU referendum. He said yes, he'd vote Remain again. Corbyn doesn't have a historical record of being a disingenuous liar. When I read about this response from Corbyn, I felt reassured. I think it's fair to take him at his word.
Re: Friday 15th December 2017
Posted: Fri 15 Dec, 2017 6:18 pm
by citizenJA
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Sacking people for wanting to stay in the Single Market. That's leaving the EEA, not just the EU. Nobody would have cared about the Minister for paper clips voting for that.
Current government are taking what they like from the 2016 EU referendum. It's scary.
